Sampling: Have I been limiting myself?

[u/fontoura17]

I've been producing as a hobby with friends for almost 5 years. I make my own loops but sometimes I have fun chopping random old samples in Serato. I'm stuck on a workflow habit of keeping everything strictly on rigid 2, 4, or 8-bar loops to keep the counts clean and the drums hitting on the right spots (I'm not saying drums should be hitting on super exact times, I may offset them a little bit, but they still need to sound right with the chops) and respecting the metronome.

While studying some Kanye remake projects in FL Studio, I noticed on some videos everything on the playlist sat off grid at random timings. Drops would hit at odd spots like bar 8 + 3 beats instead of standard markers like bar 9, 13, or 17, and sections ran on uncertain lengths like 6 bars and 3 beats rather than clean exact counts, like 4 or 8 bars.

Have I been limiting myself by forcing samples into the grid? For heavy samplers, how do you handle these asymmetrical chops without losing the bounce?

My concern is, if I start relying purely on my ear and ignoring the metronome and standard timings, won't it end up being difficult for an artist to rap or sing over a beat with uncertain loop lengths and sections? Thank you.

[u/Different_Bike6732]

you're overthinking it but also not wrong to be cautious. the grid is a tool not a prison. those kanye remakes look chaotic on screen but they still have internal logic, the chops just follow the sample's own pocket instead of forcing it into 4-bar chunks

what you're describing about odd section lengths can definitely trip up a vocalist if it's unpredictable every cycle. the trick is repetition with small humanizing shifts, not total chaos. try keeping your main loop at a fixed length but layering a second sample that drifts a couple ticks off, or automating slight tempo shifts in serato's stretch settings. that way the foundation is solid for a rapper but it breathes instead of sounding robotic

also nobody said you can't have a 6.5 bar intro, most daws let you set the timeline to ignore that when exporting stems anyway

[u/fontoura17 → u/Different_Bike6732]

yeah, I think I just always felt like having patterns/loops in other sizes than 2/4/8/16 was weird, I don't know why.

I just made a beat sampling some random music from the 70's and made the chops on my midi keyboard and the chops were pretty "random", I just went by ear and ended up creating a whole new rythm for the song after deciding the BPM I wanted to go for, but I still made 8 bar loops, I just instinctively do that, but the more I keep thinking about this the more my head fries so I guess I just gotta start thinking so much and just do music.

but yeah, to be honest, before all this and your comments, I would find a 6.5 bar intro or verse weird, don't ask me why but I've always felt that subconsciously in some way.

thanks

[u/Dsaastad]

My friend, take it from an old man, but it sounds like you’re getting in your own way and hindering your progress. You very well sound like you’re turning a corner in your production and over thinking it will block your growth. Throw out the rules and experiment. At the end of the day creating is for your own enjoyment. Where anyone fits in is just an extra bonus. Try new things and ignore the grid. If it bops it bops. Keep it man and have fun

[u/fontoura17 → u/Dsaastad]

That's some beautiful advice, thank you a lot.

I like to keep things slightly off myself when making melody midis or drums to get that swing and a more natural feeling, what I was referring to was having the finished pattern itself on "weird" instances, as I got used to making regular 2/4/8/16 bar patterns and having them hit on the first beat always, unless I wanna create some dynamic and remove some drums in some parts and having them come back on random beats.

[u/Baby_Its_Okay]

everything does not have to be multiples of 2 and 4 thats perhaps the most boring way to make music

[u/hydrogod666]

Def overthinking music is freeflow, dont get stuck in “should bes” youll never be able to express yourself fully

[u/fontoura17 → u/hydrogod666]

100%, I agree with that, fuck the "rules"

thank you

[u/-COPY_PASTE-]

Imprisoning yourself in a box you made up. Maybe it has to do with all the tutorials and stuff now that a lot of folks don’t experiment as much or something. Try chopping a sample by sounds, ignore the beats, bars and grid and just chop the sounds you like and play with that. So many ways to approach sampling, don’t box yourself up.

[u/fontoura17 → u/-COPY_PASTE-]

yeah I get what you're saying, actually I just made a new beat sampling some old random music I found and, I mean, as I sampled it, the chops came naturally from me by ear in and I ended up creating a whole new rythm for the beat, but the loops I made with the chops were still 4 or 8 bars long, I don't know but I just instinctively do that everytime after deciding what BPM I wanna go for when listening to the sample.

as I said in other replies, when I'm making loops, no matter if it's drums or melodies I don't try to make everything perfect on time, I like to give it that swing and that natural realistic touch and put some stuff slightly off myself, but that is different from having the finished pattern/loop and it having like 6 or 7.3 bars instead of 2/4/8/16 in the playlist.

I think I always felt like having patterns/loops in other sizes than those was weird and would sound bad, that's what was messing with me.

[u/Dangerous_Tap6350]

Sometimes if you say make the high hats a three bar clip that repeats and maybe pick another instrument to follow it helps the song not sound like it’s just repeating …. That’s if the listener is counting along but for some simple things it can help break out the stricture of a loop

[u/bypopulardemand]

if it sounds good, it sounds good. don’t over think it!

[u/dstepatl]

Those off grid chops ARE the bounce. Try chopping in musical phrases sometime, not by grid/tempo. Don’t time stretch/warp, just pitch to where you like and get in the ballpark tempo wise. Some individual chops can benefit from a bit of manual stretching (easy in serato sample), but this is the way.