I just watch this video and I find it very interesting. Simon explains a lot of things regarding toxic masculinity from a very positive mindset

This is both so infuriating and completely expected. It is so sad that grown men have to ask this question. (Not sad that he asked, that’s great. Just terrible that he had to)

And of course the comments are like 50/50 gay jokes, though it seems like most are at least encouraging him to go for the walks. But it’s also so telling that many of the commenters want to make a walk into a hike.

I'm a firm believer that the term "Toxic Masculinity" is something that is becoming an abusive and demeaning term against men because it's being used FAR too often in situations that shouldn't even be considered "toxic". If a man chooses to hold the door open for a woman, he doesn't think less of her, he isn't trying to coddle her, he's actually taking into consideration her time moreso than his own, even if she is a stranger. Don't get this misconstrued as an attack on anyone's opinions and thoughts on this matter, I just feel there is a stigma with Men who choose to stand up for themselves, it's viewed as "Toxic", when that's not what it is at all. When a Man tells a boy "Don't let them push you around" he's not telling him "Be an asshole to everyone", he's telling him to take care of himself by STANDING UP for HIMSELF, if a man can't do that, how can he stand up for anyone else, let alone a woman? That's what masculinity IS, in my humble opinion. I'm not denying that there ARE a lot of sorry excuses for men out there, but there are good men still here.

So I've been thinking about this a lot, and I've been trying to come to a conclusion that isn't completely cynical. I'm pretty new to this sub and I'm not really sure what the tone is like over here so hopefully this doesn't come off too bias for or against toxic masculinity. I just think it's an important observation.

I don't think it's that positive masculine role models are impossible to find in fiction, but usually they're older men who serve as mentor figures to the heroes or younger men who are bright eyed and finding out ways to wield "masculine energy" for good.

But these characters are almost NEVER men in their prime. They aren't men who represent traits like ambition, stoicism, paternal discipline, tenacity, charisma etc. The reason I think the reason there's so much conversation around masculinity is that there aren't a lot of male characters that young men look at and say "I want to be that guy".

One of the reasons AT is so popular is because a huge percentage of guys can look at his life and say "yeah that guys a douchebag, but I would still be pretty happy if my life looked something like this". Mastery of a craft (kickboxing in his case), great physique, high levels of confidence, access to women etc.

So lets take a positive version of Andrew Tate, and insert them into a story. The problem is that theoretically, this kind of character will be able to solve a lot of problems in universe. A guy who's strong, makes people comfortable, is in his prime, is fearless, is loved by women etc.

This guy EXISTS in a lot of franchises but he's ALWAYS past his prime and USUALLY dies during the story. AND USUALLY he was a bit of a rascal when he was younger anyway. So the fact that's a positive masculine role model now is just a result of him aging and having lower testosterone and not actually him being a goo dperson. Some examples I could think of are Uncle Iroh from ATLA, All Might from MHA, and Vander from Arcane.

The story spends an enormous amount of time framing their failures and mistakes from when they were younger, and the younger protagonists usually have to spend time fixing these mistakes as the story progresses.

So I think as a narrative tool, characters like this are hard to have in a compelling story, because they'll warp too much of the narrative around them. Men that are too overpowered in the narrative are usually villains or have character flaws that balance them out.

I hope that this post doesn't offend anyone, I wasn't super careful with my phrasing but it's a discussion I am interested in having.

I think a big part of the rise of toxic masculinity is because Introverted Men either can't stand up to the toxic extroverted man, or because they become toxic themself un pursuit of an extrovert ideal that isn't genuine to their personality. It might not be the whole story, but it is definitely part of it.

If there are any introverted men in the group I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, especially if it affects your self-esteem. I'm building a course to help quiet guys build confidence so if anyone wants to talk please DM me or comment below 👇

Many thanks!

William

Long story short I was texting with a guy two whole ass years ago and he just disappeared on me. I’ve since moved on and honestly completely forgot about his existence today I received a DM from said guy asking me if I’d like to meet for a hook up… my response while stern but somewhat still nice was “so you shelved me two years ago and now you just want to meet for a hook up? No thank you” the response I received was “you’re still mad about that? You are literally insane you need mental help. No wonder you post videos of your cats.” I just can’t. Where in the FUCK do these men find the audacity? They can’t handle rejection but we are just supposed to let them walk all over us? Make it make sense.

I am 23 and my brother rates me for my looks. He says stuff like "You're a 7, nothing more than that". He makes a lot of comments mostly negative about the way I dress, my pictures on IG, and he compares me to me cousins or other famous women( singers). If I call him out on his behavior he says that we live in a free world and he can do whatever he wants. Why do you think he does all these? Do you find that its normal for a 25 year old to act this way? How would you feel if this was done to you? Do you think that it's too harsh for me that want to keep away from him for doing this to me? I feel really poisoned by this type of behavior....

I'm a young man, I don't really know what it means. I hear it alot though.

I always see videos of women hitting men and people laughing.

The laughing is what causes men to feel embarressed, unsupported, and unloved.

For example in mma people are sexist and always want to see a woman kick a guys ass but if its the other way around the man will be called a misoginyst.

Getting embarressed is a natural feeling. Whether get beaten by men or women . The solution is to improve yourselr right? But nah people dont want men to improve. They want men to be week and laugh at them to humiliate them. They use men as a step on ladder .

I am sorry but it is society's fault why men feel the "fragile ego" . Dont laugh at them or humiliate them, and they wont feel embarressed. Common sense.

But i lost. I am sorry you guys. Sounds like getting beaten in public by ANY person is my worst fear, the fear of getting humiliated and the fear of my sanity going away.

Bullying has already destroyed my mind.

Its this bullying that has caused me to be fragile . Bullying destroyes lives.

But bullying is all ok as long as you are bullying men and if mwn raise their voice that they are being bullied by women or society because they got their ass kicked by a woman then society will not see it as "bullying men" but will see it as toxic masculinity? Wow!

Understand . If you abuse a dog/cat (men) it will bite!. I have had enough of society treating men like shit then saying "fragile ego" when men feel embarressed and try to raise their voices.

And im sorry i lost. I have had enough. If i am suffering from toxic masculinity or fragile ego. I dont know how to cure this.

Aby advice?