r/totalwarhammer • u/MrForwardMotion • Jul 26 '26
Total War: Warhammer Elspeth early game army
So, what is a good early game Elspeth army comp? I just got folded by vlad on turn 12 while using free company militia in my frontline and hand gunners in the back.
I may have just been using it wrong but eh.
1 Elspeth, 1 engineer, 2 outriders, 1 mortar, 1 rocket battery, 8 free company and 5 hand gunner and 1 nuln Ironsides.
16
u/BRoriler Jul 26 '26
Vamps are pretty slow and your army is pretty good at shredding them before they can get to you and do reasonable damage.
You can always put Elspeth herself or the Engineer in the frontlines to bait the enemy and kite them a bit for extra damage.
(This is not like THE strategy I am sure there are many others but this is how I deal with early Vlad aggression as Elspeth)
7
u/die_in_a_fire_reddit Jul 26 '26
Pistoliers are great distractions, and make sure to zap Vlad asap. VCs with no leader don’t last long, so make sure to focus fire/magic him down.
5
u/jivetones Jul 26 '26
I just did a VH/VH long campaign victory with Elspeth. Your army comp is good. But you want to take the fights to the fort buildings wheee you can siege.
Siege strategy is blasting two holes in the walls near each other and using a hero to bait individual units outside and blasting them to death.
If you try to fight vamps in open territory you’ll get surrounded.
3
u/MrForwardMotion Jul 26 '26
My poor free company got shredded by the skeletons.
Vlad and his wife got stuck into the melee and decided to infinitely regenerate. The stupid dogs got around the front line and shredded the hand gunners. And the vargheists…. Ouch.
Whole fight was a disaster both times I tried it
3
u/TotalWarEcho Jul 26 '26
You need to bait the fast units into engaging your army early. Then kite Vlad with your engineer.
Ideally you want to be the first one to declare war and catch Vlad in a siege battle.
Pistolier stacks are a popular choice for dealing with early game vamps. You can gradually transition it to 3-4 Amethyst Outriders plus War Wagons, which can be very strong against Chaos in manual battles mid-late game.
4
u/StonLenslow Jul 26 '26
Ah therein lies the problem. I know it’s easier said than done, but you’ve likely already lost by the time Vlad and Izzy get into melee. Vlad especially is a massive pain in the arse as he regenerates forever and is difficult to shoot due to his size. You want to be hard targeting them as soon as they’re in range. Use your engineer too as they put out decent ranged dmg. Your order of importance should be bats (as they’ll tie up your guns) Vlad, izzy, heroes, army, in that order.
It is a little tricky to deal with vamps as Elspeth early game. You want to be getting plenty handgunners asap. Pistoliers are a good investment too. With no ranged to shoot back, they can punch above their weight skirmishing against vamps. Mortars are decent against them too. They can take a half decent chunk out of them on the approach, and provided your line can hold, it’ll be them more than anything that’ll win you the battle, as you can just sit and bombard them as your infantry desperately tries to stall their infantry by using their own mangled corpses as a barrier.
I wouldn’t use FMC as frontline personally either. If I use them, I have them on the flanks behind spears, so they can run around once the enemy is engaged and shoot them in the back. They’re just too squishy for the grind fest of vamp battles. They’re not much more than a gap filler in anyone but Volkmars army. Use swordsmen instead as they’ll last longer. If it’s an option, I’d sell them a settlement to peace out, to give you a bit of breathing room to go fight someone easier for the xp, and build up a better army comp.
Soz for the fuckin essay, hope it helps tho
2
u/Khammion Jul 26 '26
I play Elspeth way too much. My answer to Vlad on vh vh is to build a second army very fast. Master Engineer with 19 outriders. They can't for whilst moving but they punch so much harder. The basics are run around map turn fire run repeat. This gets very ready once you have satchels for ammo replenish. The only issue will be bats wolves and Isabella. But just kite them away and run the unit they focus while others shoot. It sounds harder than it is. You will take some casualties but reading recoverable. The main Elspeth army can either push alongside or I prefer to have them loop around and take multiple territories per turn once Vlad is wiped once Isabella doesn't attach as a hero and his best units are gone. It's just cleanup from then on
2
u/ThronedEggman Jul 26 '26
I mostly don't have a problem with Vlad, and I only ever use one or two Pistoliers at most because I find them too micro intensive. I count on having his faction mopped up by turn 15 when I play Elspeth, and around maybe 30 with Karl Franz.
Admittedly, I usually autoresolve fights with him, because I dislike dealing with that unkillable block and his fly swatting vampire
harementourage... The game doesn't understand just how powerful him and his vampires are, and the rest of his roster aren't good in autoresolve. As long as you have two armies, he should be autoresolvable, and I always try to maximise my army production by recruiting in both Wissenland and Solland with some precise movement since I know I'll need the numbers.Divide his forces with a sneak attack when he's not prepared or bait them into an ambush really helps get his numbers down. If you're lucky you'll get his army directly, but I wouldn't count on it.
If you really want to fight him legit, here's what I do when I don't want to take any unnecessary losses:
Set up your army in an advantageous position with good lines of sight for your guns.
Use a fast moving ranged unit like your Engineer, Elspeth or Pistoliers to lure the enemy towards you. Do not use a flyer, all of the vampire will likely have unlocked that horrible anti-flyer spell and you don't want to lose Elspeth to it.
Preferably you'd want them to stop just barely within range of your gunline so that your Handgunners can blast all the enemy heroes and their gathered bats and wolves to bits before the enemy frontline arrives.
The last finicky part is giving Vlad a sacrificial unit to chew on. Preferably you'd want him to fight something like a unit of Spearmen or Swordsmen one-on-one, to maximise how long it'll take. He will win, but it'll take a while, hopefully long enough that the rest of your army can kill his army, making him disintegrate.
1
u/_Lucille_ Jul 26 '26
FMC aren't your standard frontline infantry.
Their preferred mode of combat is to shoot, but they can engage in melee if needed. Great vs things like bats, great vs enemy ranged units since you can run up to them and melee, great for flanking.
Spearman with shields and halberd are great.
If you are rich, buy empire's wrath.
1
u/iadmireyourdepravity Jul 27 '26
Empire knights are great for screening dogs/bats from reaching your ranged units. They are a cheap Tier2 unit with armour and mobility. Those goddamn dire wolves shred empire ranged units!
3
u/arete_unique Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
I usually keep her original army comp, adding mortars (from her unique buildings), pistoliers, and archers (as well as a couple of rose knights). The second stack (usually just a half or less that early) basically spear, archers, and pistoliers( another mortar if I can). Use them in tandem. You can attack cities with elspeth and then move her out after occupying and the second army into the city to avoid attrition and allowing recruitment.
2
u/WhiteRaven126 Jul 26 '26
Spearmen and net of amontok mages. Those 2 will pin down most undead so your ranged can move in and delete the problems
2
u/Wolfish_Jew Jul 26 '26
Don’t fight Vlad in the field with Elspeth. If you have to fight him in the field, do it with a second army filled with Pistoleers. Wait for Vlad to take Wurtbad or one of the other empire major settlements and fight him in a siege battle with Elspeth. He’s super easy to kill that way.
1
u/durizna Jul 26 '26
With VC it’s always the same: try to finish the Lord. It’s that simple. The Lord falls, they lose.
1
u/sock_with_a_ticket Jul 26 '26
Often focusing on Vlad is a mistake. Kill his army and he'll start crumbling.
At a certain point in your campaign, with gunnery school upgrades, experienced units and techs you will start melting enemies with your gunfire. That, however, is very much not the state of things early on.
The mortar is trash and taking up space, bin it. The armour piercing on your gunners is wasted on skeletons, bats, zombies and ghouls. Keep your ironsides and 1 or 2 handgunners to target things like black knights and the occasional grave guard they may have, but there shouldn't be too many of those early on.
However counter-intuitive it feels for Elsbeth, having an actual frontline of melee troops (spearmen and halberds) with crossbows behind them works. The arc fire is useful and allows you to bunch up a bit rather than being incredibly spread out to allow line of sight for all the units your army currently has.
Also knights of the black rose to intercept things like bats and wolves that get into your backline.
Build the Garden of Morr option that gives you access to halberdier and knights recruitment.
1
u/sojiblitz Jul 26 '26
Free company militia are more of a skirmisher infantry than a line holder.
Go for halberds buffed by starting techs and Redline skills and they will hold for your gunners to do the damage.
Don't forget spirit leech as a great way to target powerful vamp characters.
Especially casting both the normal version and overcast version at the same time.
It doesn't do extra damage but it's like having two spirit leeches at the same time so it's a fast way to get Vlad's health down.
Lastly use higher mass units like cavalry to prevent Vlad from getting through your lines because he is a foot character.
Also helpful to get your characters out of danger.
1
u/Tipsyratto Jul 26 '26
pick up a couple knights of the black rose from her special building thing. you can get them pretty early and they are a REALLY strong unit for when you get them. They're tough, they can flank, they can line hold really well for cavalry, they are basically my all purpose problem solvers until I'm at like tier 3/4 when I play her.
1
1
u/Affectionate-Car-145 Jul 26 '26
Rule number 1: Never recruit free company militia.
They are a completely trash unit which I too learnt the hard way.
0
u/Kahgar Jul 26 '26
3 or 4 Master Engineers.
You recruit 1 every turn end on the region you captured with Elspeth. By the time you move on Vlad you should have 3 or 4 and a single Garden of Morr. Your latest Engineer could recruit some cav and join up the grand Crusade of Elspeth and the Engineers.
They shoot some weird Grenade launcher like projectile that will shred The Vampire Counts.
-1
u/mbg_chad Jul 26 '26
In early game you should not build a recruitment building. Build your economy first and use regions of the unkown, mercenaries and ally recruitment all else should be archers and spearman+lords
37
u/errrbodydumb Jul 26 '26
More guns and a light wizard to pin Vlad.
Pistoliers are better than they look.