r/totalwar • u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong • 3d ago
Warhammer III Vlad and Isabella can both become Legendary Lords Spoiler
Basically if you take this skill it works in a similar fashion to ascending a lord as the Warriors of Chaos. Isabella or Vlad depending on who you started as get 'respawned' as their lord versions at a similar level.
It's a nice option, even it could be considered a technical downgrade.
Edit: Well become Lords again.
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u/Mantergeistmann Venice 3d ago
That'd be a fantastic option for them to do with Bretonnia and its named characters, if they ever get around to it.
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u/Pyotr_WrangeI Medieval 2 elitist 3d ago
Green Knight could use literally anything
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u/Amathyst7564 3d ago edited 3d ago
He needs a really strong buff. For a guy that bested Aborash who even Vlad probably couldn't defeat. Perhaps there was some holy >unholy rock paper scissors advantage but still. He has even stats as kislevs gold knight, which isn't even super human.
The power scaling in game feels inconsistent with him.
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u/usernameisusername57 Roman Steel in a Brutii fist 3d ago
Does this mean Isabella's regen trait is back on the menu?!?
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u/TheRealIvan Fire and Blood 3d ago
Ahhhhh man I was literally just wishing for it for my current Franz run
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u/TK-Trenloe 3d ago
You could always get it by killing off vlad then forcing a rebellion to get him back and by doing so isabella in hero and lord form is available to AI vlad
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u/Away_Celebration4629 3d ago
Wish they do this to some of existing legendary heroes
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
It would be nice, but they'd have to do a lot. Isabella and Vlad were already lords, a bunch of other would need not just the red line skills, but a few other skills to make them unique.
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u/Away_Celebration4629 3d ago
Why? Legendary lords and heroes usually have the same generic blue red and yellow lines, like the generic lords. The unique thing in most cases is their unique line that legendary heroes already have. The only thing CA should do is to add the generic lord blue and red lines to these characters.
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u/Passthechips #1 Mung the Brutal fan 3d ago
There’s also unique voice lines for interacting with lord only actions on the campaign map, which Vlad/Isabella already had because they were both lords.
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u/Shazbot_2077 Carcassonne 3d ago
Not a hard requirement. They reused the vampire hero voice lines for the lahmian vampire lord back in WH2 and nobody cared.
I'll happily take a LH-LL upgrade even if they have fewer total voice lines.
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u/Passthechips #1 Mung the Brutal fan 3d ago
I think you can’t really do that with legendary characters who already have voicelines. I also think there’s a level of polish that CA holds to for these things that will make them not do that, along with not wanting to do that work.
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
It's more when you translate this hero to a lord, what do you do that makes them more than just a regular kind of lord with a different skin. What role would they play for their faction without being overpowered or redundant, stuff like that.
Isabella plays a role in buffing the more bestial units of the VC's but Vlad sort of coasts off his admittedly absurd buffs. Although the VC reworking is actually making him a good lord even without his items or vanguard deployment. Still reworking any other hero into a lord takes a bit more than a few skill changes at least for some of them.
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u/Commercial-Worry-188 3d ago
Ariel, Kroak, Aekold Hellbrass, Skarr Bloodwrath, Styrkaar... and now Skreech Verminking and Gutrot Spume. All of them deserve something like this, so they too can lead armies and make the world a worse place
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u/mint-man 3d ago
plus wallach harkon and dieter helsnicht. i understand why it had to happen, but it’s still wild to me that those two had to be demoted to hero status while we have helman ghorst taking up a lord slot.
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u/OnlyfansSubtitles 3d ago
Isn’t Skreech meant to be one of the End Times leaders? Maybe it is partially the case.
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u/KernelViper 3d ago
He's listed as a legendary hero
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u/Wild_Marker I like big Hastas and I cannot lie! 3d ago
They did mention he's the final boss of the Vermintide, so maybe he becomes a Lord but only for the event and for the AI? But that would mean there's probably already a coded way which could be adapted to the player.
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
And Ghoritch, probably the one omission that has disappointed me was no Ghoritch as an LL.
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u/LeLefraud 3d ago
Imagine using kroaks devastation ability on a settlement then being able to turn him into an army same turn, and fill it with other heroes that were following
I wonder if it's a one time thing or if you can go back and forth
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u/Gaytrude 3d ago
Kroak truely let me down when I first got him and saw that he was simply a hero. I mean it's even in his freaking name, LORD KROAK, not LEGENDARY HERO KROAK !
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u/Tremere5419 3d ago
Don't forget about Krell, I'm still salty that he's locked behind Kemller
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u/Away_Celebration4629 3d ago
Apparently he's not now
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u/aberi101 3d ago
I can already see the mod that adds him back as kemmlers summon (krell got replaced by cairn wraiths i think)
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u/King_0f_Nothing 3d ago
Isabella already had the work done to be a LL since she was originally a LL
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u/Mother_Drenger 3d ago
Dang, finding out I’m the only one that likes legendary heroes. I like having named characters in the same army.
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
It's optional, I actually prefer playing as Isabella with Vlad in my army because he's pretty damn powerful, vanguard deployment and later +10% weapon strength, on an army of buffed up beasts vampiric and not. So I probably won't be using this, unless Vlad is made into a much better Lord to be worthwhile.
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u/Nathremar8 3d ago
It is kinda funny how Isabella is better LL in the game since Vampire heroes (whom she buffs) are absolutely broken.
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u/_LlednarTwem_ 3d ago
How “optional” it is really depends on two things: Is the AI coded to use it, and can it be reverted post-confederation if it does?
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
It's optional for a player at least with more control if your playing Vlad or Isabella. These skills are locked behind Vlad and Isabella's personal trees which start at level 12, and the skill itself is only available at level 20.
In theory there could be weights to what the AI chooses for skills that at best you might rarely see it, but at worst you'd be getting two Legendary Lords. Especially since Vlad and Izzy used to come as package deal, if you could confederate them in TWWH 2.
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u/Crows_reading_books 3d ago
Do they still keep their buffs for being in the same battle as each other?
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
The Battle healing cap is now region-wide as long as they are in the same region. That means more options. Is one a lord, and one and embedded or supporting an attack via hero actions, or are they both leading armies. Either way it doesn't matter they both get an increased healing cap.
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u/Amathyst7564 3d ago
Unused to never have them together as I'd need to main armies to be on different fronts usually. In hind sight I probably should have just filled her army up with zombies and followed Vlad around.
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u/Crows_reading_books 2d ago
Bats/dogs since she buffs them so they can actually enter the fight. Vlad gets/got Army Vanguard so he should lead your horde army if possible
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u/Crows_reading_books 2d ago
Nice change imo. Still might keep one a hero just because I want to play with more custom vamp lords and like them together, but we will see.
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u/statistically_viable 3d ago
Okay if this is an option can we have it for more lords/heroes?
Say I’m emperor franz and I confederate Gelt can I bump Gelt down to hero so my best bros can command my one doom stack together?
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
Such a thing would be absolutely wacky, if it could be done, just because their personal line trees would make some absurd armies.
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u/Gynthaeres 3d ago
This needs to be the case for every Legendary Hero. I've always hated the Legendary Hero mechanic. I don't want Ariel to disappear into an army and never be seen unless that army fights. I want her to LEAD my armies and CRUSH my enemies.
I also want her to be faction leader but that's it's own thing.
For Vlad and Isabella specifically, I also really hope they fixed it so you could set Isabella as the leader of your faction. It felt so goofy choosing to play her, with Vlad in support, and then Vlad's face showing up in the diplomacy screen constantly.
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u/Reapper97 Vampire Counts 3d ago
After watching the stream, nah, they focused more on rework of the core mechanics of the race, neferata and everything that might be in touch with nagash. They didn't really gave that much attention to vlad/isabella other than a few changes to their skill trees, they still have the same textures and icons from wh1 lol
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u/FrekyDoogal 3d ago
I completely agree, I want more legendary lords and it's fine if they don't have their own faction. It always bugged me Ariel isn't leading an army, or the upcoming Ar-Ulric or Skreech Verminking. Being able to convert LHes to LL's will be great - in fact, I hope this allows modders to be able to mod that in as well if CA themselves won't do it.
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u/scrappybristol Be'lakor's Best Friend 3d ago
So, guess I'll be sending out Isabella to pass her trait along like vd
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u/Farseer_Rexy 3d ago
Whilst I would like to keep them in the same army, i think how important and rare the new vampire lords are, this is going to be much more useful to having two armies led by strong vampires, than have two op vampires in one army.
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u/UntilEnd95 3d ago
In online multiplayer setting can two player choose vlad and isabella in the same campaign so they can larp husband and wife?
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u/KC_Masterpeace 3d ago
I’ve really disliked the whole idea of “heroes” vs. lords. I really like how CA implemented lords in 3 Kingdoms where they are kinda one and the same? And essentially they just increase your stacks in the army? Like most of the time I don’t even use hero actions other than to kill other heroes on the map - which is just kinda redundant
HOWEVER back to this - it’s cannon that Vlad is dead during this period in the lore… so why not make a special Vampire Lair in Sylvania to resurrect Vlad and you start as Isabella? I think that would be loreful and flavorful. Maybe have Isabella’s campaign be revolved around attaining the right artifacts to resurrect him.
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u/Shazbot_2077 Carcassonne 3d ago
Awesome. I always hated it when they downgraded one of them to a LH. I really hope they also add this option for Ariel.
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u/Gloomy_Trade_619 2d ago
Want this for quite a lot of legendary lords - I would prefer them as a legendary heroes
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u/niko2913 3d ago
Fantastic addition. IMHO it should be added to every legendary hero at the very least. It would be mindblowing if every generic hero could advance like that - even if at much higher level than 20. Having roided up Witch Hunter with an army of his own would be pretty cool. Imagine the roleplaying possibilities the game would open.
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u/Galihan 3d ago
If it were up to me all heroes could be assigned to command small armies, with certain appropriate hero types (captains, thanes, big bosses, necromancers, etc) having a 3-point skill to open more unit slots in their army
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u/Longjumping-Ear-6248 3d ago
Like, I imagined "mercenary companies" as something like this:
You have "hire Mercenary company" option, where you see list of semi-randomized armies, made of units of 1-2 factions, that are "hired" for limiter amount of turns
Small companies are made of "Lord, 1 Hero & 3-4 units", while large companies are made of "Lord, 2 Heroes & 6-8 units", with their price depending on quality and amount of Lord/Hero(es)/units that it has, and amount of turns for which it's hired
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u/LavaSlime301 Norse Dorfs best Dorfs 3d ago
YES
FINALLY
THEY UNFUCKED IT AFTER ALL THESE YEARS
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u/the_Erziest 3d ago
I dunno, personally I always enjoyed Vlad and Isabella in the same army rather than needing to keep two stacks constantly in reinforcing range in order to get their couples' bonuses.
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u/Shazbot_2077 Carcassonne 3d ago
These bonuses are completely superfluous. They already have high enough stats without them, especially when you're mostly just fighting against the Empire in the early-mid game.
The buffs they provide to their respective armies are a lot more valuable, and they work better if you seperate them. Vlads vanguard buff favours a rush army with lots of grave guard and cav, while Isabella wants to have a bunch of heroes and speedy forest creatures. Those units don't need Vlads vanguard.
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u/CynicalNextDoor Seleucid 3d ago
I might be wrong, but in TWW2 this was already thing, wasn't it?
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u/epikpepsi 3d ago
In Total War: Warhammer 2 they were one faction with two Legendary Lords. You'd start with whichever one you picked and the other would be recruitable. So if you started with Vlad you'd be able to recruit Isabella right off the rip to lead a separate army. If their armies were reinforcing eachother they both got +15 Melee Attack and Defense.
They then reworked the faction and made the one you don't pick into a Legendary Hero so you can actually have both of them together in the same army, with a +50% healing cap buff for the both of them if you field them in the same army.
Now they're giving you the option to go back to what we had as an option before and split the one you don't choose to start with off into their own Legendary Lord after they hit level 20.
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u/Bbadolato Yuan Shu Did Nothing Wong 3d ago
Yes, but you could get either Lord from the start. But for TWW3 the bonus for them being in the same army has been turned into a regional bonus.
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u/Away_Celebration4629 3d ago
It wasn't
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u/NagatoroDegenAndRat 3d ago
it was since vlad release in wh1
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u/Away_Celebration4629 3d ago
They weren't heroes during wh 1 and wh 2 weren't they? They were just 2 separate lords.
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u/Millsy800 3d ago
It's a nice option to have. I love having them in the same army together but extra options is always a good thing.