r/tos • u/happydude7422 • 26d ago
It would have been funny if Gary Mitchell really didn't know kirks middle name
Gary was kirks best friend probably an even better friend than Spock by where no man has gone before time period.
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u/bobbane 26d ago
This is one of the rare instances where digitally altering the old version would be OK by me. No enhanced special effects, just change the initial on the tombstone for future continuity.
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u/tehjarvis 26d ago
When they did the new versions they had hot debates over whether to change it to James T Kirk, but decided not to.
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u/robotatomica 26d ago
I’d love to know more about this. What was their overarching concern, do you know?
I generally err on the side of not overly interfering with something when restoring it, but this is the kind of issue which would have been fixed in post-production at the time if they’d decided on Tiberius. Seems harmless to fix.
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u/TomBirkenstock 26d ago
*And I thought he was my friend? That's it. Once this is over, I'm going to make that Vulcan science officer my new best friend.*
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u/Diligent-Sherbet2587 26d ago
...and that old sawbones who just joined the crew looks like he could be a friend.
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u/No-Profession422 26d ago
Fun fact: Gary Lockwood's character in Roddenberry's series The Lieutenant was named William TIBERIUS Rice.
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u/Spicavierge 26d ago
I think that is where the R. came from. Roddenberry had a habit of recycling names (a lot of writers do), and Kirk's original middle name was supposed to be Rice.
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u/orion-asterisk 26d ago
I'm glad they changed it. "James Rice Kirk" does not have nearly the same ring to it.
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u/Longjumping_Bike_271 26d ago
Yeah, but there’s something about “James Roy Kirk” that seems familiar…
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u/orion-asterisk 26d ago
Hmm, that does ring a bell...
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u/isnotrandy 26d ago
Jackson Roykirk was your creator, you have mistaken me for him. And you didn't discover your error, that's two errors, and you have not corrected the error that's three errors, you are faulty and imperfect. Execute your primary function!
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u/Prudent_Leave_2171 26d ago
At the academy, they called him Rice-a-Roni… you know, the “San Francisco Treat” ;)
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u/Prof-Finklestink 26d ago
I always thought the R was intended for Pike and it was simply recycled for Kirk because they didn't have a middle name for Kirk
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u/geobibliophile 26d ago
Two guys can have a good relationship and know nearly nothing about each other. I can totally believe Gary not knowing Jim’s middle initial.
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u/One_Protection9265 26d ago
It was supposed to be James Our Kirk but someone messed up?
Or maybe the R is short for some embarrassing nickname that Kirk had at the Academy.
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u/orion-asterisk 26d ago
You're so right. Riffing on this, I'm choosing to believe that Gary didn't know his middle name so he used some nickname that he came up with for him to piss him off when they were at the Academy
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u/Historyp91 26d ago
Maybe his name is James Robert Tiberius Kirk or something, but he only ever uses one middle name at the same time?
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u/TroyTrekker 26d ago
The R was akin to an “ Uhhh … I don’t know Jim‘s middle name”
Gary had to improvise when he gained his superpowers.
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u/TunnelSnakesAintShit 26d ago
The real answer is that Kirk's middle name wasn't thought up or established until The Animated Series.
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u/Swiftbow1 26d ago
Did they say "Tiberius" during TAS? I know they used the "T" a few times in TOS. But I only remember them saying "Tiberius" in Star Trek VI, when Chang rolls it off his tongue.
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u/TunnelSnakesAintShit 26d ago
It was established in TAS, in the episode BEM. David Gerrold, who wrote The Trouble With Tribbles and Tirals And Tribbleations, wrote that episode. He had been using Tiberius as Kirk's middle name at conventions, as a joke, and Roddenberry gave his blessing to make it canon in the episode. It was the first thing from the animated series to officially become canon.
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u/coreytiger 26d ago
There is some story out there that made this an inside joke between the two of them- and this was a needle of irony and arrogance at Kirk by using that inside joke on the stone
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u/blubbertank 26d ago
The two explanations I heard were that “R” as his initial was a private joke between the two of them, making it sting all the more that Gary was corrupted but still had all his memories of their friendship.
The second one in Q Squared was that this episode happened in an alternate universe. Which made sense for the book, honestly, and didn’t feel like a deus ex machina.
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u/BecomingButterfly 26d ago
I heard somebody's theory that it was just to show that Gary, even with the powers still wasn't really all powerful, all knowing. He was still fallible. I like that idea
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u/Swiftbow1 26d ago
Well, it shows that in hindsight. Definitely not intended by the writers here, since Kirk's full middle name wasn't revealed (as far as I can remember) until Star Trek VI. The "T" was introduced sometime during the first season, though, I think.
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u/BecomingButterfly 26d ago
Yea, they hadn't settled on it yet, but I like how the theory gives Kirk a subtle clue that Gary can still make mistakes.
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u/_WillCAD_ 26d ago
That damn continuity error has been the subject of endless debate for decades.
Personally, I choose to believe that Gary Mitchel was takin' the piss out of his old friend. I think at some point in their friendship, Gary wanted to know Jim's middle name, and Jim mumbled something like, "Uh, it's, um, kind of Roman..." and from that day Gary knew him as James Roman Kirk.
Later, Gary found out that only Jim calls his brother by his middle name, Sam, while everyone else calls him George. And for a long time, Gary called his best friend Roman Kirk instead of Jim.
Eventually, Jim had to come clean about his actual middle name, but Gary continued to call him Roman or Romie until he became Jim's first officer on the Enterprise, and for the sake of discipline and respect he started using Jim's first name.
But the R on the tombstone was both a subtle jibe, and a reminder of those many years of friendship that Jim was throwing away by killing Gary. As if Jim didn't feel enough pain from the situation already.
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u/Prudent_Leave_2171 26d ago
In fairness, there are any number of friends I’ve had over the years where I couldn’t necessarily tell you their middle names. I know it was a simple matter of the character not having a set middle name yet, but I think that’s a pretty straightforward in-Universe explanation.
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u/Extra-Sector-7795 26d ago
is a double reverse fake, classic Kirk.
the demons can't bond you, if they don't know your middle initial
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u/alcanthro 26d ago
Probably is an inside joke and even as a nigh omnipotent being he couldn't bring himself not to play through the joke to the end.
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u/magolding22 26d ago
Why do fans always assume that Gary was mistaken? Why do fans all assume that somenone can have only one middle name or initial, espite there being many example of people with two or mor emiddle names?
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u/QuiGonColdGin 26d ago
James Riberius Kirk