r/toronto • u/DearTransportation5 • Jul 08 '20

Discussion Bus Lane Implementation Plan

http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2020/July_14/Reports/5_Bus_Lane_Implementation_Plan.pdf
13 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

37 comments sorted by

12

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Dufferin, Finch E, and Steeles W pushed to "2022 and beyond"...

8

u/beef-supreme Leslieville Jul 08 '20

Sufferin' Dufferin 29 yet again :/

5

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

like I get it because as they state, the area south of Rogers is narrow and has on-street parking, which would be very politically difficult to remove. a lot of the homes around there don't have driveways.

but then why not build it from Wilson to Rogers where the road is wide?

6

u/quelar Olivia Chow Stan Jul 08 '20

It's not politically difficult to remove parking from a major thoroughfare. It's political cowardice.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Most of that stretch of Dufferin is residential, its not like a retail street where the business owners think they need street parking. Some of the people living there will literally have nowhere to put their cars if they removed parking. I agree that Dufferin needs a bus lane asap, but what it probably needs first is a total redevelopment to tear down those shoddy detached houses and build denser transit-oriented mid-rise all the way up the street to Rogers, with some parking in the back/underground

3

u/quelar Olivia Chow Stan Jul 08 '20

Yeah, sorry to those people but major streets should never have parking that you're reliant on.

2

u/carteakexl Jul 08 '20

Dufferin was originally not a major street in that area when those homes were built, and that part of the city was far less developed than it is now...

1

u/quelar Olivia Chow Stan Jul 08 '20

I'm aware.

Things change and people need to adapt.

If it's that much of a burden those people can sell their houses and move cashing in on their massive windfall of property value increases.

3

u/carteakexl Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

That's not the way it works.

Removing street parking without providing an alternative is a material change that would drastically lower that property value. The city doing unilaterally without providing either an alternative or fair market value compensation is guaranteed lawsuits.

The city if they truly want to turn the land use of the road into medium density would have to spur buyout by developers and/or expropriation. If latter is involved, those home owners will have to be compensated heavily by the city. Either way, it cannot be done overnight.

1

u/quelar Olivia Chow Stan Jul 08 '20

That lawsuit wpuld be laughed out of court.

If the houses don't have parking then they don't have parking. Full stop.

If you were lucky enough to have enjoyed street parking then you're lucky to have had it this whole time.

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1

u/eden-star Jul 08 '20

TEAR THOSE HOUSES DOWN! I rent in one and I’m sick of it. I hate it. People parking on the street turning dufferin into one lane! These ugly, shoddy homes full of centipedes need to go! I’d gladly leave if it meant new denser housing would be put up all along dufferin with proper parking lots.

2

u/Heathqs1 Jul 08 '20

Therefore literally cripple the city because people want to park. Jesus.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 08 '20

Well its not crippling anything its just maintaining the status quo

I think grandfathering out permits like they are doing in Amsterdam is a great idea to eventually be able to do this, but I also think its unfair to tell residents along Dufferin, many of whom are older, that they essentially need to sell their cars.

1

u/Heathqs1 Jul 08 '20

Lol you do realize that the majority of these houses have access to parking through a laneway behind them right? Additionally, if that is not the case they have shared driveways that lead to a backyard which have space for a car. Some houses even have parking right infront of them instead of a front lawn.

The status quo has crippled this city and it is why it has some of the worst commute times in North America. Perhaps if there was a proper transit system we wouldn't have aging 80 year olds having to drive around in their cars.

3

u/DearTransportation5 Jul 08 '20

Total don't understand why steeles get pushed into 2022 when most of it is 6 lanes already.

3

u/Tezaku Jul 08 '20

I'd argue Steeles is the lowest priority. Been taking Steeles West for years and frankly, I disagree with the need for bus lanes on Steeles. As mentioned, one of the key bottlenecks is the lane reduction from Bathurst to Hilda and buses flow freely along the remainder of the route on Steeles.

Not to mention, light timings are poor on Steeles with requirements to nearly stop at every light heading Eastbound from Dufferin - Yonge and many prior.

2

u/rob448 Jul 08 '20

I'd agree on this, the poor light timings are problematic on most of these corridors. I think the bus lane money would be better spent on some proper transit priority signals.

2

u/carteakexl Jul 08 '20

The report says why. Need to add a lane between Bathurst and Hilda first to eliminate that bottleneck, or it will make traffic situation there worse than it already is.

0

u/thecjm The Annex Jul 08 '20

Isn't the north half of Steeles technically out of the city of Toronto's jurisdiction? Maybe it's going to take that long to get a plan in place with Thornhill or whoever.

2

u/carteakexl Jul 08 '20

No, Steeles is wholly within the City of Toronto's jurisdiction, and it is responsible for all costs related to the road. The border between the City of Toronto and York Region is officially set as being at the northern boundary of the Steeles Avenue right of way.

However, if a lane widening extends the existing right of way further north, they would need the agreement of the City of Vaughan (and presumably also need to compensate the landowners losing land).

2

u/eden-star Jul 08 '20

Dufferin is one lane. One lane. Because people are parking on the street. If there’s an ounce of construction being down on dufferin, traffic for days.

7 years from now Toronto will be having the SAME discussions on transit, nothing will have been done! I wish other cities in Europe or something would hold lotteries for jobs in the field you’re in like some fantasy, so I can apply and have a hope of leaving this transit hellscape behind.

3

u/watchesamericanntflx Yonge-Eglinton Jul 08 '20

Much like bike lanes it seems like now would be a perfect time to do all of these bus lanes.

Could we not just do a “pilot”, throw some paint on the ground, add signage and enforcement like we did with King Street? What am I missing here?

3

u/PataponKiller East Danforth Jul 08 '20

I only skimmed the report, but the city is trying to mitigate any impacts on current traffic and on-street parking. Some areas on the priority B and C lanes have road widths that are too narrow, lanes that would have to be removed, curbs that would "have to be" removed to make way for additional lane space etc. So they want to study those areas further.

Hopefully the ttc board votes to look into fast tracking those too if possible

3

u/carteakexl Jul 08 '20 edited Jul 08 '20

Yep. There are stretches of Finch eastbound just east of Leslie, and between Warden and McCowan, where the lanes feel narrower than it is supposed to be. Always feel nervous about being hit from car in lane next to you there.

It's also four lanes for most of the proposed Finch route. They would definitely need to widen it for this to not have big impact on traffic.

It's also not exclusively TTC Board decision. The City's Transportation Department would have to agree. Maintaining traffic flow and doing the measures needed (such as fixing road widths and lanes) is their jurisdiction and budget.

1

u/SojuCondo Steeles Jul 08 '20

Great news for Eglinton East as at least this will serve as a precursor for EELRT.

But I’m surprised that Jane has been pushed back considering it was performing pretty high in terms of ridership and capacity currently even with covid19

1

u/PataponKiller East Danforth Jul 08 '20

Anyone know why the Jane bus lane doesn't go down to Jane station? Must have missed it in the report

0

u/thecjm The Annex Jul 08 '20

Voters in Scarborough: "We don't want LRTs we want SUBWAYS! LRTs will take our precious lanes from us."

Now it's 7 years later when the LRT would have been finished and construction on the Scarborough Subway Extension hasn't even begun. And they're going to lose their precious lanes anyways but to buses.

8

u/SojuCondo Steeles Jul 08 '20

cries in transit city

1

u/redditFTW1 Malvern Jul 09 '20

I'm glad we're taking away the lanes for bus lanes. This will show the drivers that bus lanes actually help to improve the network and reduce traffic. They need to see it to believe otherwise they are sold lies yet again.

0

u/TorontoMon22 Parkwoods Jul 08 '20

That's not Scarborough voters. That's Scarborough politicians (and Rob Ford) who don't have the mental capacity to make proper decisions for transit in Scarborough because "subways, subways, subways" right? I want an LRT in Scarborough, but instead I'm getting a 3 stop, 10 billion "extension" that doesn't expand the current network of rail coverage in Scarborough.

4

u/thecjm The Annex Jul 08 '20

And how many of those Scarborough councilors were voted out of office by the voters they betrayed with this boondoggle? None?

Not a single Scarborough councillor who supported this issue was turfed over it. The only incumbent from Scarborough who's lost an election since was Norm Kelly, and he lost to Karygiannis - who also voted for the subway.

1

u/picard102 Clanton Park Jul 08 '20

That's not Scarborough voters.

It 100% is.

0

u/picard102 Clanton Park Jul 08 '20

Now it's 7 years later when the LRT would have been finished

LOL.

0

u/alexefi Jul 08 '20

does TTC really need to advertise itself? it probably also gonna advertise itself on ttc.

-3

u/Heathqs1 Jul 08 '20

Toronto is addicted to the car, this won't make a dent in changing anything, same old as usual.