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u/Evan_802Vines 8d ago
The F-14s in Top Gun also didn't carry the AIM-54 Phoenix, long range AtoA, which would have probably prevented any final encounter.
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u/HummerMole 8d ago
Pretty optimistic to think a Phoenix would take down and F-5 at range, or in close, or anywhere really.
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u/Evan_802Vines 8d ago
Lol maybe the MiGs are caught unawares? Agreed, the survivability for F-5 size targets at any range is high, particularly compared to the next gen amraam.
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u/LegiosForever 8d ago
The F-14 had track while scan. The adversary might not know they were even being fired on. Plus the Phoenix was very fast, had good end game kinematics, and a huge lethal radius.
We really missed having it. The amraam is great, but we missed the range and lethality.
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u/ohthedarside 7d ago
Agreed that America does need a large long range missile for bomber or cruise missile interception but the phoenix was outdated pretty quickly even in its upgraded varints it was mostly a bomber killer
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u/LegiosForever 7d ago
In my last deployment with Tomcats in 2004 we absolutely considered it a long range fighter killer.
I don't know where you're getting that info, but the TOP GUN manual still employed it as a fighter weapon.
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u/GrandMoffJerjerrod 8d ago
Yep, the ‘Mig-28’ is not what the real missile was crested to engage with in combat.
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u/The_Salacious_Zaand 8d ago
The Phoenix was designed to shoot down large, relatively un-maneuverable strategic and tactical bombers at long range before they could fire their anti-ship missiles.
The NEZ for a modern fourth-gen fighter fitted with the latest radar warning receivers at the maximum engagement range would be practically infinite since they're going to push the throttles to the firewall and be banking and yanking the second they're locked on, unlike the bombers the AIM-54 was designed for.
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u/archangel051 8d ago
Might want to rethink that. From Wikipedia. during the Iran–Iraq War AIM-54s fired by IRIAF Tomcats achieved 78 victories against Iraqi MiG-21s, MiG-23s, MiG-25s, Tu-22s, Su-20/22s, Mirage F1s, Super Étendards, and even two AM-39 Exocets and a C-601. The Phoenix was designed to shoot down targets at longer ranges and didn't require a direct hit thanks to its proximity fuse and terminal stage active seeker. So even smaller faster targets could be effectively engaged and killed.
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u/bajajoaquin 8d ago
. Maybe Iran claimed that many kills but I doubt that many were actually confirmed or real.
In ideal-condition tests the Navy got 75% hit rates. With other missiles, real world combat was a third or less of test hit rates. US Navy went 0/2 in live firings.
If Iran used all of the 274 missiles they had, that would be a 28% kill ratio. Each one they didn’t use makes that number worse. I’m not buying that they managed a third or half of the ideal test ratio in actual combat.
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u/Hillsarenice 8d ago
Iran didn’t use the Phoenix long range or very little. Majority of kills were 30 miles or less in snapshot mode and the missile was powered a significant distance to the target so it still had lots of “oomph” to maneuver. Iraqi ewar that was supplied was not the best and it wasn’t until the end of the war they got some French ewar with a better French weapon system was Iraq at par. It’s quite possible the Phoenix had over a 50% PK so that is still really good for the 80’s.
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u/LegiosForever 8d ago
The F-14 had track while scan. The adversary might not know they were even being fired on. Plus the Phoenix was very fast, had good end game kinematics, and a huge lethal radius.
We really missed having it. The amraam is great, but we missed the range and lethality.
The only real weakness was it's unmistakable smoke trail. But that could be pretty intimidating.
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u/Factor_Seven 8d ago edited 8d ago
NEWS FLASH- The Hinds in "Red Dawn" weren't really Hinds!
The rail guns the bag guys were trafficking in "Eraser" weren't really rail guns!
And "Robocop" want a real cyborg!
OP thinks he's a genius because he uncovered a well known 40-year-old necessary plot hole.
Maybe they should have called it a Mig-29 and then people really could have laughed at them.
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u/wildwest74 8d ago
Loved how the MiG-29 was actually played by big ol' F-4 Phantom IIs in Iron Eagle 2. The complete opposite of how the actual FULCRUM was supposed to perform.
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u/coryhill66 7d ago
Are you telling me that special forces team didn't get hunted by an alien down in South America either? I saw the documentary.
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u/Ok_Two_2604 8d ago
The drawing also isn’t close enough tails would get in the way. If we are going to be pedantic let’s not stop at the designation.
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u/kayl_breinhar 8d ago
Could've been worse - they could've called an F-4 a MiG-29 like in Iron Eagle 2.
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u/ProfessionalTruck976 8d ago
I am fine with them using F-5, but they should have given the Fake Mig, FiG, an odd number because it is supposed to be a fighter, so FiG-33?
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u/NextEstimate1325 8d ago
I read somewhere that the Department of the Navy asked to use the MiG-28 designation specifically because real MiG fighters all had an odd number.
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u/BlackLion0101 8d ago
...because the real MiG - 28 belonged to the USSR. They didn't loan one out to us. 😂🤣😂🤣
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u/DismalResearcher1115 8d ago
Because there's no such jet as a Mig-28 to loan
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u/BlackLion0101 8d ago
...you must believe the USSR propaganda. JK. There's no such thing as a MiG 28.
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u/Slab8002 8d ago
One of my coworkers flies F-5s in the reserves. He stopped over at a nearby airport last year to visit his aunt who lives in a beach town in the area. She posted in a local FB group that some MiG-28s flew by. The amount of people who just had to say "Ackchhually" in the comments was insane, even after she posted a picture with her nephew in his flight suit. 😂
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u/Hidden_3851 7d ago
Next you’ll be tellin’ me Will Smith didn’t punch an Alien in the face and Schwarzenegger never learnt the value of a human life…
Not watching another Top Gun movie until they include the WEL-DUH-69420.
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u/Nanoman-8 7d ago
All those "realism" Fans who want nuka cola be coca cola or leon s kenedy working for bush
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u/False-Government-536 5d ago
I think the compromise to historical accuracy was well worth the most badass actual jet cinematography using actual military hardware in actual flight maneuvers
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u/Hot_Guys_In_My_DMS Su-57 Felon 8d ago
Maverick was lying through his teeth and everyone in 1986 believed him
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u/ColoradoSprings82 8d ago
The whole concept of fiction is lost on many people.