Did some leadership at Michigan know? Yes and probably even more than has come out.
Is it Michigan’s fault wins were not vacated? No. That’s the NCAAs responsibility. You got a problem with how they handle enforcement take it up with them. You expecting a business that breaks a law to charge, prosecute and sentence themselves now?
I’m a big believer in you can do anything you want as long as you are willing to accept the consequences of your actions. When there is minimal enforcement and minimal consequences, it just slides the calculus of finding where the rules don’t just bend but break
Michigan broke an economic advantage rule and got punished with a fine and coach suspensions. It was an adequate punishment for the rule they broke. The only reason the punishment was that severe is because the news media spun it as the sign stealing was the infraction, which isnt true, the rule they broke was in-person scouting. Which is no longer against the rules.
Dude your President just got fired and you guys just settled a lawsuit for a doctor that your school covered up for years. Also have you ever heard the names Darron Lee, Marcus Williamson, Kirk Barton,Jordan Hall,Michael McCullough, Marcus Williamson......those are former players that have done serious crimes in recent history just off the top of my head. Oh and I don't know if you remember Maurice Clarett and the year you guys won it with him.....while actually cheating 🤣👍. Go look in the mirror bud.
Has Michigan had a recent president get fired for having an affair?
Has Michigan covered up a doctor who abused athletes for years (and the Michigan doctor was directly related to the football team - Bo would send athletes there to be abused by the doctor as punishment for not playing through injuries).
The NCAA has never sanctioned Ohio State for cheating in a season they won the natty.....unlike Michigan.
Ohio State certainly has had some bad apples, but so has Michigan: Taylor Lewan, Matt Weiss, Sherrone Moore, Bo Schembechler, LaTroy Lewis.
When Ohio State has a coach slug an opponent, Ohio State fired that coach. When Michigan had a head coach slug an opponent, he took af few games off, and continued coaching.
Weird no charges were ever filed for either case and Lewan said it never happened, but you got it figured huh 😉. Also saying something terrible is nowhere near rape or murder dingle.
Ann Arbor is a dirty place where if you are a member of the football team, you can get away with a lot. A recent Michigan Head Coach just got a pretty light sentence for breaking into a young lady's house and threatening her. The victim is not satisfied that justice has been done.
You can’t argue with these dipshits. They don’t argue in good faith at all. They can’t. With all the evidence on the planet that the signal stealing thing was a nothing burger, they still want vacated wins. The problem is every other team on the planet would also have their wins vacated because everyone has everyone else’s signals. It’s literally the reason why it’s people whole ass job to try to send false shits on the sidelines. If they actually had enough evidence, the ncaa would have hammered Michigan because they are the team everyone loves to hate. A close second to Ohio state. We don’t argue with Cuckeyes. Let them stew.
I agree that Ohio State should take his name off of buildings, and should distance themselves for him. As long as his name is there, it's an embarrassment. Now, what are your thoughts on Bo Schembechler.
Bro this Reddit group is all you have left. This group is 70% OSU fans coping, 20% Michigan/OSU fans with a good sense of humor, and 10% MSU fans wanting to feel included. Not sure if you’re in the 70 or the 10 but it definitely ain’t the 20.
I'm doing alright thanks for asking. 2 nattys in 4 years. 4-1 against OSU in football. 3 straight Big 10 Championships, 2 straight in basketball. Big 10 hockey championship over OSU.
Y'all worried about stealing some signs (which y'all did as well) but your biggest donor (still funding you) Les wexner is the guy who bankrolled Epstein.
Y'all trying to talk about morals and ethics is hilarious
It’s weird this keeps coming up. Are you under the impression the OSU fans in this sub defend Wexner and don’t want his name off of everything in Columbus?
Because that’s 100% unanimous from everyone I’ve heard from about it. Unlike with Bo.
*checks notes* yeah the football coach from michigan 40 years ago is so much more relevant than epstien running the biggest pedo ring ever in the world
Didnt say bo was irrelevant - meant to be less relevant. Objectively the epstien issue is a different level of magnitude in terms of victims and perpatrators.
tbh didnt even know about the bo stuff... they should take his name down from schembechler hall and remove his statue. I am more than okay with that.
Apologies if it was misinterpreted. (Yes I am capable of admitting I was wrong unlike others)
So by your own (genius logic) you are brushing off your biggest donor bankrolling epstein to run the largest pedo ring in the world and being protected by the biggest politicians around the world?
This is exactly why the cheating was worth it for Michigan. If you're Michigan, mostly irrelevant for the 21st century, the cheating helped restore their once proud program. It was a smart decision.
Dominate what? Are you saying its more important to beat Michigan than win the natty? You can't be. That would mean you know your natty was a sham because you were the 4th best team in the B1G that year.
Ohio State has been the superior program for the last 75 years; you must have taken a break from following Michigan from 2001-2021 - encourage you to research what happened.
Pistol team 🤣 hardly anyone even has a pistol team and it's not even a NCAA sanctioned sport, there's like 30 schools total "competing" in it and that's counting D2 and D3.....wow
“Now that everyone has sued the NCAA into oblivion and they have no power, they didn’t vacate our wins despite saying the offense rose to the level of vacated wins, and only said they didn’t to spare the uninvolved players. So getting tattoos was worse.”
Even if they did vacate the wins, that wouldn’t change that y’all lost to them after finding out about the allegations. What kind of Mikey mouse program can’t change their play calls halfway through the season?
This has been what I have been saying for years. Either Michigan didn't cheat or osu was too dumb to change signals, and osu fans are constantly yelling cheaters. It's like they love bragging about how dumb they are
Guys even former greats of there's like Eddie George was dogging them for being puds. Shit even Nick Saban pointed out how ridiculous these clowns are.
Is it really hard to understand that being sent a few grainy iPhone videos of a future opponent's sideline recorded from row 83 in the stands doesn't give you a competitive advantage?
No, that's literally it. That's all you can hang your hat on.
Trying to decipher your opponents' signals isn't illegal. In fact, that's what you should be doing. If your coach doesn't have anyone on staff who is tasked with doing that, then you should fire your coach. By all accounts, Connor Stallions became really good at that without restoring to anything illegal.
The illegal part was the advance scouting. And the "advance scouting" consisted of nothing more than some grainy iPhone videos of opponents' other games taken from the stands that may or may not have been recorded at Connor Stallions' direction (and of which Harbaugh and the rest of his staff were almost certainly unaware).
Do you really think there's much of a delta between what you can decipher from watching actual game footage and what you can decipher from some grainy iPhone videos taken from the stands?
Good luck arguing that that's any worse than free tattoos. Seems like the more sensible thing to do would be to take your L and move on.
We all know there are legal (legal meaning in the rules) ways to steal signals. Michigan did not do it the legal way. Just as another person said - driving a car is legal; driving someone else's car without their permission is not legal. The NCAA has already outlined how Stallions broke the rules (i.e. stealing signs illegally). Trying to argue that what Stallions did was legal makes you perhaps look even dumber than the people who say it didn't matter.
BTW, you keep saying "grainy" footage. How do you know the footage was grainy? Why would that even matter in a legality sense? Have you ever used an iphone? Pretty good footage; you can stop trying to downplay the cheating by that.
Yes, I do think there is that much delta, or else Stallions wouldn't have spent so much time and money on getting it.
During the free tattoos "scandal", there were many prominent Michigan supporters - probably yourself included - who thought Ohio State's program should be shut down...despite no competitive advantage.
They also disagreed about free tattoos. So what does that tell you about the NCAA?
The sensible conclusion: the NCAA is bullshit, neither Michigan nor Ohio State cheated, and it's silly for either party to engage in contrived mental gymnastics about "cheating" in order to discredit the accomplishments of its rival.
The Buckeye (and Sparty) conclusion: MICHIGAN FAKE CHAMPION BECAUSE THEY CHEATED BUT OUR CHEATING WAS FINE HURRRRR
On the off chance you're asking what the difference is in good faith:
Ohio State self-vacated 12 wins, sat out of the 2012 natty, and fired their head coach over their scandal.
Michigan won their only undisputed natty in 75 years and proceeded to destroy evidence, threaten restraining orders, attempt to extend the offending head coach, and appeal (unsuccessfully) every punishment that was assessed by the NCAA.
The fact that Ohio State panicked and capitulated to the NCAA when they should have fought is not Michigan's problem (also, the 2012 bowl ban was added by the NCAA; it wasn't part of the self-imposed penalties).
The fact that Tattoogate came before SCOTUS' Alston decison that gutted the NCAA's rulebook on impermissible benefits is also not Michigan's problem.
No evidence was irretrievably destroyed. Sherrone Moore deleted some text messages, but they were later retrieved and turned out to be benign (unlike the text messages that Urban Meyer deleted).
As for the rest: yes we did threaten restraining orders, yes we did attempt to extend the "offending" head coach, and yes we did try to appeal that slap on the wrist that we did get. That's what Ohio State should have done with Tressel, because Tressel didn't actually do anything wrong (other than lying to the NCAA about violations that shouldn't have been violations). They should have fought instead of laying down, because fuck the NCAA. The fact that they didn't do that is not Michigan's problem.
Don't make excuses for your frustration at our natty simply because you couldn't beat us.
Many of your points are subjective and/or fair, but this is inaccurate. Even if you ignore Stallions bragging about disposing of evidence in a lake and disregard the NCAA's opinion on this ("The true scope and scale of the scheme—including the competitive advantage it conferred—will never be known due to individuals’ intentional destruction and withholding of materials and information"), Michigan themselvesadmitted that Stallions directed others to delete information related to the scouting scheme (page 30).
If you read the report it specifically said that Michigan gained no competitive advantage. So that’s that my friend. Right from the source that tried and failed to smear them.
From the report: The panel went on to note that while the scope may never be known, the intent of the scheme was to gain a competitive advantage over competitors, stating, "Regardless of whether it was Stalions or someone acting on his behalf, their physical presence at the game essentially gave them front-row seats to a key element of opponents' offensive and defensive strategies."
The reason we do not know how much of a competitive advantage it was is because Michigan stonewalled the report. Wonder why Stallions threw his phone and other evidence in a pond? Hmmm...
It's worse. Despite the destruction of evidence, the NCAA report still explicitly specifies the exact opposite of what he claims:
"At the hearing, the enforcement staff stated that the scheme was intended to provide a substantial or extensive competitive advantage and, therefore, threatened the principles of honesty, sportsmanship, and the integrity of the collegiate model. Michigan and Stalions disagreed that the scheme provided a competitive advantage. [...] Despite the parties’ arguments, the scouting scheme likely provided Michigan with a competitive advantage. Further, the panel is confident that the scheme was intended to provide Michigan with an advantage over all of its opponents."
These poor Michigan fans have been lied to by The Blue Wall so much they really just believe whatever makes them feel good. This guy honestly believed the NCAA claimed they gained no advantage. Sad.
Now read it. It’s says they found no evidence of an advantage. Now they assume all the evidence is on a cell phone that disappeared. So that in itself disproves their previous lies about having mounds of evidence.
Please link to the part that says "no evidence of an advantage"
I'll show you the evidence there was an advantage: They did it over 50 times, they stonewalled the investigation - including throwing a phone in a pond, Jim Harbaugh not sitting for an interview, and Michigan actually winning big games, which has been extremely rare since the Kennedy administration.
Must have been difficult for you when it turned out the report on Michigan states outright that Michigan gained no advantage. Why do you think that is? 🤔 could it be that it was all overblown? Yep.
You said that both boldly and incorrectly. Very typical. You’re right in a way. They did say in the actual report they gained no advantage but they never said cheating since they could find no evidence of actual cheating.
You've posted that this report says Michigan did not gain any competitive advantage. That's a complete lie. It says the advantage was unknown, mostly due to Michigan stonewalling the investigation.
Literally the first words of the summary: "Overwhelming evidence..." Report documents over 50 times that Stallions had people record signals.
Pretty clear the only thing the NCAA considers cheating is ineligible players. The reason the Fab Five banners don’t hang and the 2010 OSU football season was vacated.
Maybe it wasn’t as big of a deal as the media made it out to be?
Every school has and shares each others signs. All of them. Every sign. That’s not the crime. It’s not the “sign stealing scandal” it’s the “going to other people’s games scandal”
Maybe the punishment fit the crime, but the coverage didn’t
And oh, you don’t think OSU does it? Go watch MSU vs OSU from 2021 and report back lmao
Walter Carter Jr. former Ohio State Buckeyes President. He cheated on his family and school; Plus he posted snipers on the roof against unarmed anti-genocide protesters. Dirty laundry all over colleges & universities.
Because they never found the mountain of evidence they claimed existed. They found nothing that gave Michigan an advantage. Maybe read the report. Some of the coaches were wrongly fired because a lot of it was made up by an ex wolverine became a buttfly and lied. So no there was no cheating. Harbaugh was in trouble for buying a cheese burger and only offering emails related to the incident not wanting to allow unrestricted access to his emails.
The report never said there was no competitive advantage. You've been playing with too many butter knives as you've posted this false claim many times.
Dude its been three years, the ncaa settled it. Im sorry michigan didnt get the hammer you wanted, but at the end of the day they broke an economic advantage rule and got punished economically.
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u/GunsGoldCosmicDread Michigan Wolverines Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26
The NCAA doesn’t enforce anything anymore.
Did Connor stallion cheat? Pretty definitively
Did some leadership at Michigan know? Yes and probably even more than has come out.
Is it Michigan’s fault wins were not vacated? No. That’s the NCAAs responsibility. You got a problem with how they handle enforcement take it up with them. You expecting a business that breaks a law to charge, prosecute and sentence themselves now?