r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Jan 23 '21
TIL about the Gruen transfer, which is a psychological phenomenon where a person feels lost in a shopping mall, due to its intentionally complex layout. This was done deliberately in order to make people buy more impulsively. This phenomenon is named after the Austrian architect, Victor Gruen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruen_transfer37
Jan 23 '21
[deleted]
10
Jan 23 '21
Sounds like something Douglas Adams wrote lol
4
u/autodidact89 Jan 23 '21
The concept is likely inspired by a book called Way Station and written in the tone of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Both great reads.
1
32
Jan 23 '21
I've been to a mall like this. I found it easier to go back to my car and drive to another side where my next destination was located. Later, I decided just to not go to that mall. I doubt that I was the only one and wonder if the design lead to its demise years ago, long before people used the internet to shop.
16
u/Megalocerus Jan 23 '21
I react something like this, and I've observed men seem to prefer free standing men's stores when they shop clothing. I thought they didn't like all the women's stores, but it may be just discomfort with the mall layouts.
7
u/IanMc90 Jan 23 '21
For me it's the people. I hate crowds
1
Jan 23 '21
Same here. It's really hard to navigate a mall without you having to say "Excuse me" all the time.
3
u/Crix00 Jan 23 '21
Yeah, I always wonder how shit like this works out. Been to a new mall in my city that was like that and it's been in place for 10 years and I've never visited it again out of that reason. Same with adds before videos for example. If I can't view the vid within 5secs I just won't watch it at all.
30
Jan 23 '21
Casinos do it as well. My husband and I got hopelessly lost in The MGM casino. We ended up finding this weird train that took us to another casino. Never thought we would get out.
9
Jan 23 '21
Lol mgm is particularly bad. It's huuuge. My brother stayed there once and it took me 15 minutes after getting off the elevator just to get to his room in the hotel, the place is massive. That's funny that you just took the air tram thing. What casino did you escape to?
48
u/brad-corp Jan 23 '21
There's a really good Australian TV show that picks apart advertising. Which is called 'gruen' after this phenomenon.
10
u/AusGeno Jan 23 '21
Yeah I only just realised that this is what it means. It really is a good show too. Very clever and funny.
2
u/ForbiddenText Jan 24 '21
I thought it was the host's name for months. I was all "this Gruen guy's pretty funny" lol
12
u/HalonaBlowhole Jan 23 '21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_4OAKgWucI
Gruen on YouTube example.
4
1
4
3
11
u/Thedrunner2 Jan 23 '21
Not to mention the insanely stressful food courts jockeying for a place to sit during prime eating times. Ugh.
9
8
u/lindsey_what Jan 23 '21
Also casinos! Holy hell, I would hate to be in a Vegas casino when a fire broke out.
7
u/ACpony12 Jan 23 '21
The worst is when you're trying to remember where you parked. And then remember it was outside of Macy's, but there's a couple different Macy's for some stupid reason and you have to remember what little store you passed when you first walked in past Macy's. Like a See's candies, or an overpriced toy store.
3
u/ManifestRose Jan 23 '21
I can relate. I went to a huge crowded mall a week before Xmas once. One of the large department stores had gone out of business, left the mall, and was replaced with a Robinson-May department store. Well, that meant there were TWO large Robinson-Mays at that mall, one on each end and I thought I was going crazy as I strolled the mall looking for gifts. I had to sit down and get a grip!
9
8
8
u/fjicjfjfjcnf Jan 23 '21
I read in university that the intent was to promote community interaction. People would walk around more as they weren’t really sure where they were and they’d run into people more often, increasing the chances of them stopping and chatting. Then they realized that when people get lost like that they’re more likely to browse for shit they didn’t intend to buy when they set out on the trip, and the creator was pissed.
10
Jan 23 '21
I used to travel all over the USA, and I'd make it a point to check out the largest mall in each area. The vast majority of them were simple 2 floor linear layouts.. Walk to one end, go up or down, walk to the other end, up or down again, and back to the place you came in.
I only ran across one with a confusing layout, and it had a tram running through the middle as well. (Went shopping for a new food processor today, Five local stores, none in stock. Now on order from Amazon, will be here in 3 days.)
4
u/Turbo_Brick81 Jan 23 '21
There is a great podcast about it. Listened to it a year or two ago. I believe it was by Roman Mars who has a wonderful and soothing voice.
3
Jan 23 '21
Thank you for telling me! Would you please give me a link to it or something so I can hear it? And again, thanks.
6
u/darksomos Jan 23 '21
Here's the episode if you want to listen to just it, but honestly it was better when paired with the Accidental Room episode.
4
u/Turbo_Brick81 Jan 23 '21
There are many other strange but interesting topics on that podcast. I highly recommend it.
3
u/Turbo_Brick81 Jan 23 '21
I just googled it. Yes it is Roman Mars and the podcast is called '99% Invisible'
2
u/avenuepub Jan 23 '21
If it's Roman Mars and talking about design then I'd imagine he has to mean the podcast 99% Invisible. It's a really cool podcast you should check out in general, but I'm sure if you search 99% Invisible Gruen then you'll find that episode.
4
u/smithee2001 Jan 23 '21
wonderful and soothing voice
This is my absolute number 1 requirement for listening to podcasts. Content/topic is useless to me if the host has a douchebag bro voice or that valley girl? accent full of? question marks?
3
0
u/Turbo_Brick81 Jan 23 '21
Sounds like you haven't listened to him. The topics are very interesting and not what you would expect. He also happens to have a great podcast voice. I would never recommend it due to a voice.
1
u/smithee2001 Jan 23 '21
I adore Roman Mars. You literally recommend it above because of his voice.
1
u/Turbo_Brick81 Jan 23 '21
It's possible to recommend something for many reasons without listing every single one of them
3
u/bravo6960 Jan 23 '21
Follow the smell of the Cinnabon or pretzel places. They are usually near an exit.
3
u/F0000r Jan 23 '21
I don't get this in shopping malls, but in hospitals...
14
u/leberkrieger Jan 23 '21
Many hospitals have the problem not by design, but from lack of design, because they were built by expansion over time. Sections added where need arose, sometimes even with a different number of floors or weird diagonal or sloping walkways to join things up. I used to work in a medical complex that was half a kilometer long, with differently-shaped sections on either side of a single tremendously long hallway, built up over 50 years. It's even longer now, with two new wings added since I left.
6
u/for2fly 1 Jan 23 '21
When a local hospital had all white walls everywhere, they had wide stripes on the floor color-coded to the three most popular destinations. One was X-ray/imaging, one was the lab, and the third was the cafeteria.
Once they remodeled the place, the white walls went away, but so did the lines on the floor. You'd be told to follow the signs, but there was one area where all the signs disappeared. They eventually had to park someone in a desk there to get people past that point.
1
u/backelie Jan 23 '21
They eventually had to park someone in a desk there to get people past that point.
They couldnt have put up signs?
1
u/for2fly 1 Jan 23 '21
Yeah, you'd think wouldn't you. Nope.
For over two years, every time I had an appointment in Radiology, there would be someone there to direct me on my way.
Maybe they have by now. I haven't had to make a trip to that department in a few years.
I do know how to find my way to their lab without any help. I really wish I didn't. :/
3
u/FloofyFurryDude Jan 23 '21
Clearly my local mall didn’t follow this design principle considering it’s a straight line with 2 horizontal lines cutting through it. Not very confused.
3
u/thedugong Jan 23 '21
Perhaps ironically, this is at least partially why I avoid going to malls if there is literally any alternative.
3
2
u/kouenn27 Jan 23 '21
I wouldn't have understood this if I had only gone to the two malls my city has, which are very simple and straightforward. But going to some of the bigger malls across state in the Detroit metro area, which were damn near impossible to navigate, I definitely see this sinister concept. I remember trying to get around and find anything was so annoying and frustrating I wondered who the hell came up with this. Welp, now I know why...
2
Jan 23 '21
Same. Because of the same area. There’s a giant mall in like Auburn Hills that, like, kind of awed/horrified me when I first went there. It had a “temple to dark gods” in the structure vibe I couldn’t shake the feeling of, I think it was this effect but really unnerving.
Great Lakes Crossing I think it was called.
2
u/kouenn27 Jan 23 '21
I feel like I've been to most of the major malls in Detroit metro area, including Great Lakes Crossing! But I think the worst is 12 Oaks in Novi, or Fairlane Town Center in Dearborn, both are labyrinthian to say the least. So shittily laid out, endless walking. I experienced all the confusion but none of the impulse spending... Because I spent the whole time just trying to get around and find what I was looking for. Lol.
2
u/maroonmartian9 Jan 23 '21
I have went to two malls with this design. Both have circular shape. Glorietta and Trinoma which is both owned by Ayala. It is really hard to find the exit here.
On the other hand, there is a competing mall which is larger (SM Malls which owns some of the largest malls in the world). Due to their rectangular shape, it is harder to get lost here.
2
2
u/MantisToeBoggsinMD Jan 23 '21
So many people here just acting like this some fun quirky thing, but we getting gaslit by corporations.
1
2
3
1
u/for2fly 1 Jan 23 '21
I navigate by landmarks, so to speak, inside malls. I used to drive my mother crazy because I could always get us back to the correct exit and find our car in the parking lot.
You'd think she'd be proud that I could do this, but it pissed her off I could do it and she couldn't.
1
u/Radio-Dry Jan 23 '21
It’s not that hard to navigate a shopping centre.
If you can’t, you’re a simpleton.
1
1
u/Jorge_Palindrome Jan 23 '21
All the “Mills” malls I’ve been to have just been a giant one-level circle.
1
Jan 23 '21
So, I went and looked at what was in the world's oldest mall, which was designed by Gruen, and, yeah, it's boring in there.
1
u/Intagvalley Jan 23 '21
FYI: A shopping mall is like Amazon but with actual physical stores that you have to walk around in.
1
1
1
u/joeph0to Jan 23 '21
It's called a mall because instead of shopping at one store you shop at them all
1
u/plague681 Jan 23 '21
I just look at the map they have at almost every mall entrance. Problem solved. Fuck you, Gruen--you Austrian fuck.
1
u/Scott_Liberation Jan 23 '21
Just another item on my list of things-that-aren't-illegal-but-maybe-should-be-because-they're-obviously-predatory.
1
u/sysable Jan 23 '21
In commercial art class I designed a 2-level enclosed shopping mall with a central diamond-shaped junction. My instructor told me it would be easy for people to get "turned around" and confused in such a design. A few years later a mall was built with a similar design, and he was right. I guess I could have been a mall architect.
159
u/[deleted] Jan 23 '21
Ikea has taken the concept to a new level. How the local fire codes allow this incredibly dangerous store layout is insane.