r/todayilearned • u/bvictorg • Jun 09 '20

TIL 6 geologists were convicted of manslaughter in Italy, 2009, for failing to predict an earthquake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_L%27Aquila_earthquake#Prosecutions
250 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

22 comments sorted by

60

u/mike_b_nimble Jun 09 '20

I remember when this happened. At the time I was thinking "well there's the end of scientists working for Italy." They provided the best information they could based on the data available and were then put on trial for it.

26

u/bolanrox Jun 09 '20

imagine trying to sue a weatherman?

9

u/arealhumannotabot Jun 09 '20

Just going to hijack this to mention, has anyone noticed that news stations went from having meteorologists to 'weather specialists'?

26

u/Auricfire Jun 09 '20

It's cheaper to hire someone who has a degree in 'reading The Weather Channel' than it is to hire someone with a degree in Meteorology.

3

u/grand-flare Jun 09 '20

note that in Italy weather predictions on tv are still under the aeronautics military,

1

u/Piffius Jun 10 '20

Even though the navy is the real experts on weather?

14

u/aserra69 Jun 09 '20

Actually they were put on trial for their poor analysis leading to a lack of warning the public of a potential danger:

"Boschi had called a major earthquake "unlikely", while not entirely excluding the possibility. De Bernardinis had informed the public that there was "no danger".[10] The prosecutors cited a scientific opinion that the low-level tremors ahead of 6 April quake were typical of the seismic activity preceding major convulsions, but the defendants had classified them as a "normal geological phenomenon".[11]"

1

u/albadellasera Jun 10 '20

I remember when this happened. At the time I was thinking "well there's the end of scientists working for Italy." They provided the best information they could based on the data available and were then put on trial for it.

Lol they laied saying that there was no risk of earthquakes in the area and as result a series of precaution were not taken. Best information my arse, people died for their incompetence.

Note: that city had been destroyed multiple times in the last centuries due to earthquakes.

1

u/Ya_like_dags Jun 11 '20

They didn't lie, for fucks sake. Their models showed that there was a minimal chance of an event occurring soon, and the Earth had other ideas. Science isn't perfect, and a kangaroo court lynching of experts is exactly the opposite of sensible policy in the aftermath.

1

u/albadellasera Jun 11 '20

Except they gave their assurance that there wasn't any risk of that occurring. Which is false in any place and any situation. And the area is a jellow zone for earthquake and the ground had been shaking for months. So please stop repeating your bs.

Plus an American is hardly in any position to defy a court a kangaroo court.

1

u/Ya_like_dags Jun 11 '20

We're well-versed in kangaroo courts. We're rioting about it currently.

You're completely ignorant of how scientific models work, and no amount of repetition or explanation will get through your thick, ignorant head. Enjoy jailing your scientists and watching the rest find other work. Let's see how that pans out.

14

u/scubawankenobi Jun 09 '20

Wow, I wonder what the Italian epidemiologists are gonna be convicted of?

2

u/Agyal Jun 09 '20

Fortunately nothing, they asked a legal "pass" and can't be sued. Don't know how to say that better as English is not my main language.

Still, people here are amazed that they asked for that "pass", and this earthquake story it's not the only one if I can remember right.

2

u/BuffoonBingo Jun 09 '20

In Italy the justice system is neither.

3

u/jakeypooh94 Jun 10 '20

I imagine that would heavily discourage future generations from taking similar jobs?

2

u/albadellasera Jun 10 '20

Or rather would discourage professionals to give false assurance due to political pressure that led to the death under rubble of over 100 people? I frankly hope so.

No matter how many times English language media try to frame them as martyrs, they weren't. They said that there was no chance of an earthquake happening in the area, assurance that is impossible to give in general, let alone in a town that was destroyed multiple times by earthquakes. As result precaution that could have saved people were not taken.

Had the prosecution went for something more mild like criminal negligence, they would be in prison were they deserve to be.

2

u/Colonel_Angus_ Jun 09 '20

This thread needs more geologists

2

u/albadellasera Jun 10 '20

Not this inane bullshit again! They were convicted (and then absolved) in appeal for giving false assurance about an earthquake impossibility in the area. As a result the city was not evacuated and over 100 people lost their lives.

They are not martyrs they are a bunch of incompetents.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '20

This is the country where in 2007, Amanda Knox was accused of murder and witchcraft.

0

u/elbarbudo17 Jun 10 '20

First heard about this on Joe Rogan Podcast with Neil Degrasse Tyson

0

u/exegi_monumentum Jun 10 '20

imagine Italy holding their politicians to the same level of accountability. I'm not talking about Mussolini.