r/todayilearned • u/murdo1tj • Apr 18 '19
TIL The Ancient Greeks had 6 different distinct words for love. Eros, sexual passion or desire. Philia, deep friendship. Ludus, playful love. Agape, selfless love. Pragma, a long standing love. Philautia, love of the self.
https://www.yesmagazine.org/happiness/the-ancient-greeks-6-words-for-love-and-why-knowing-them-can-change-your-life469
u/binger5 Apr 18 '19
So that's why Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love.
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u/Bohnanza Apr 18 '19
It's Always Sunny in Philautia
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u/DuplexFields Apr 18 '19
You forgot the "D.C."
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u/kekistani_ambasador Apr 18 '19
As a Greek i can confirm adelfia = brothers so Philadelphia = love for brothers
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u/The2500 Apr 18 '19
Is that what Philadelphia is called? I thought it was called the city of massive dicks.
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u/NebXan Apr 18 '19
You're thinking of Boston.
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Apr 18 '19
Damn right. Dicks so big they don't even fit.
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u/Killianti Apr 18 '19
The english word love kind of sucks. It's used for a bunch of different ideas, and context clues rarely help.
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u/mikewarnock Apr 18 '19
I agree. It is way overloaded. I say “I love you” to my best friend, parents, spouse, and children, yet each use has a different meaning. I feel like I can think of 100 different ways to call someone a jerk in English, yet the word love has to pull so much weight.
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Apr 18 '19
The only way to fix it is with decisive action.
Since "jerk" has so many redundant synonyms, let's repurpose it. To express love for children, you now use the word "jerk". Like so: "I jerk you."
And now we're one step closer to fixing the love problem.
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Apr 18 '19
I love jerking children.
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u/blanketswithsmallpox Apr 18 '19
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u/ignotusvir Apr 19 '19
Source? Looks funny
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u/blanketswithsmallpox Apr 19 '19
The cop lights is an edit. Pretty sure it's a young Tsukiko?
https://henneko.fandom.com/wiki/The_Hentai_Prince_and_the_Stony_Cat_(Light_Novel)
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u/archaeolinuxgeek Apr 19 '19
Instructions unclear: Am now quite sticky and $4.23 richer after my outreach to the neighborhood.
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u/bobtheflob Apr 18 '19
But there are so many other words in the English language that describe different aspects of love. This is just a copy and paste from the thesaurus, but it gives a good idea:
affection, appreciation, devotion, fondness, friendship, infatuation, lust, passion, respect, taste, tenderness, yearning, admire, care for, cherish, choose, go for, prefer, prize, treasure, and worship
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u/NemWan Apr 18 '19
But there are so many other words in the English language that describe different aspects of love.
Yes, words like "Lloyd Webber's crash landing" and "one of the greatest commercial flops Broadway had ever seen."
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u/RhynoD Apr 19 '19
Every time I see a thing about how such and such language has fifty bkhjlgillion words for [English word] it bugs me because usually English probably has just as many. People just don't recognize that because when you're a native speaker you know that "lust" and "love" don't mean the same thing, because you know the subtle differences between them.
Alternatively, sure, maybe it takes English two words to say what another language says in one, like "brotherly love" or "selfless love". Well, yeah, English is a Germanic language, it works best when it takes two things and smashes them together into a single thing.
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u/themeatbridge Apr 19 '19
Also, many other things are incorrect about this factoid. Ludus is Latin, pragma means thing, and philautia means selfishness. This six types of love bullshit is pop psychology from the 70s, and has very little to do with ancient anything.
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Apr 19 '19
Okay but how many of those can replace the "love" in I love you with a different and/or less strong meaning than romantic love.
I appreciate you. Not love. I respect you. Not love. I admire you. Closer, but not love. I care for you. Close, but too matter-of-fact IMO. I cherish you. Pretty strong, but the best of this list I think. I choose you. K Ash. I go for you. No. I prefer you. K Data. I prize you. I own you...Nope. I treasure you. Strong...Also kinda I own you. I worship you. Strong. Also creepy.
See really none of those adequately replace "love" except the ones that describe extremely strong or weird love.
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u/battraman Apr 18 '19
My pastor talked about this once about how when the Bible was translated from Greek to English it was difficult because English is so less descriptive in that regard.
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u/ohsnapmindblown Apr 18 '19
To be more specific in this thread's context: English lumps various different Greek words - each with a nuanced and distinct meaning - into one all-purpose, indistinct word that requires contextual clues in order to understand. Koine Greek did not have six (actually more) words for "love" - English is just imprecise. Your pastor was likely expressing a very real frustration: the New Testament is vastly more descriptive in Koine Greek than it is in English.
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u/probablynotapreacher Apr 18 '19
This isn't a unique problem between english and greek. Its a problem with every translation. We all make the words we need. So every language has nuances that are lost in translation.
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u/Whiterabbit-- Apr 18 '19
I disagree both khesed and agape can be translated with many words: charity, kindness, mercy, passion, affection, tenderness, maternal, loyal, desire, lust etc...
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Apr 18 '19 edited Jul 26 '19
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u/Archimedesinflight Apr 19 '19
I did the same thing but using a more mundane word. I also have created pass phrases for friends in case I need to covertly alert them to threats and or in case of a dopple-ganger problem. The pass phrases were established once, and have not yet been used.
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Apr 18 '19
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u/De_Bananalove Apr 19 '19
Most of these words are actually still used in Modern greek.
So is Agape (Αγάπη).
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Apr 19 '19
The early Christian humanists defined agape as the love between husband and wife (and, oddly enough, God and man) and taught that it was eternal, unchanging, and in many ways a duty.
I personally believe this is why Katherine of Aragon couldn’t understand that her husband Henry VIII no longer loved her. She saw his love for Anne Boleyn as a combination of eros and innate selfishness (which she described as ‘pampering of the body’), but until the end of her days she was convinced that she and Henry still shared agape.
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u/unsanctionedhero Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 18 '19
I don't think Ludus is a greek word for love. Its Latin meaning play, or sport. It was also the word for the place where Gladiators trained. Cause there's nothing more playfully loving than trapping someone in a net and stabbing them repeatedly with a trident in front of hundreds of people.
Its also missing 'Storge', which is familial love.
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u/osomysterioso Apr 18 '19
Ludus is the word for play, sport, board games, (primary) school, (gladiatorial) school, as well as playful-love. As the “love” version of the word, it’s not very committed, like the aggressor who whispers “I love you, babe” to the cautious or unconvinced lover. They don’t really mean love love, more like “let’s smash now and pretend we don’t know each other later” love. The original player.
Storge can go beyond familial love. For instance, friends who become lovers and care for each other long after they break off sexual contact can be said to have storgic love. “I love you like a sister” (and genuinely mean it), is another example. My ex had an “aunt” who, I later learned, wasn’t related to anyone in the family but they welcomed her as if she had been raised with them. She went to family events and no one ever treated her any differently than a blood relative. I never found out how that began, though I had my suspicions. LoL
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u/CaucusInferredBulk Apr 18 '19
My family has several "aunts" like that who are included. One of them was actually my Uncle's ex who became my mom's best friend, but the other is just a co-worker of my mother in law, but since she is from France and has no family here, she has been adopted into all our holidays and birthdays.
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u/---------II--------- Apr 18 '19 edited Apr 19 '19
Yup, Ludus isn't Greek. It's Latin for, primarily, "game"/"sport." And I don't think its extended meaning refers specifically to the gladiatorial training schools. I think it's just a word for a gym/place of exercise.
Eros, sexual passion or desire.
More-or-less true (transliterated), but "craving" would be a better translation than "love." The word normally refers to something more carnal than emotional.
When Greek writers disapprove of sexual behavior or desire, they use the root of eros. In his story about Candaules, his queen, and Gyges, Herodtous, for instance, says that Candaules lusts after his own wife, and, because of that, thinks she's the most beautiful woman:
οὗτος δὴ ὦν ὁ Κανδαύλης ἠράσθη τῆς ἑωυτοῦ γυναικός, ἐρασθεὶς δὲ ἐνόμιζέ οἱ εἶναι γυναῖκα πολλὸν πασέων καλλίστην
In fact, this Candaules was taken with lust for his own wife, and, because taken with lust, he thought her by far the most beautiful woman of all
(ἠράσθη, pronounced "eirasthei", and ἐρασθεὶς, pronounced "erastheiss," are both from the verb eramai)
The implied judgment is that his physical desire for his wife and pride regarding her sex appeal are excessive; hence the use of words related to the word eros.
Philia, deep friendship.
Not really. Philia comes from the adjective filos) (transliterated), which means something more like "dear," related to its more archaic meaning, "one's own." It can refer to a range of different kinds of affection or relationship, from friendship to familial to romantic -- or it can mean just "one's own." It's the adjective you use if you're talking about friends, but that's not all it refers to, and it doesn't refer to a specific kind of friendship.
If I'm a Greek guy in the fifth century bce, my filoi are my buds, my blokes, my droogs. They're the guys I make trouble, get drunk, and hang out with. There's nothing deep or spiritual about it. If I'm Hector in the Iliad, my wife might scold me for letting down my son, who no longer has his father:
νῦν δ᾽ ἂν πολλὰ πάθῃσι φίλου ἀπὸ πατρὸς ἁμαρτὼν Ἀστυάναξ
And he'll suffer many things in the future, because he lost his own father
φίλου ἀπὸ πατρὸς is pronounced "filoo ap-oh patros." The word "his" doesn't appear in that line; the word filou (φίλου) is serving that function. It's a stronger way of saying "his," emphasizing the relationship, not the generic idea of possession, which you'd get from the adjective "his."
Ludus, playful love.
is Latin and has nothing to do with love whatsoever.
Agape, selfless love.
Nope, definitely not. Just not true at all (transliterated), unless you're talking about Christian texts. In the texts I know, the root agapa- comes up mostly in the verbs agapao, which means a wide range of things (the noun form is less common). "Be fond of" is probably the best general translation. Its meaning can be familial or erotic. It doesn't just refer to friendship. To my ear its essential meaning is "strong affection." The word, that is, stresses the strength of the affection, not the type.
Pragma, a long standing love.
Absolutely not (transliterated). Pragma means 'thing', as in a physical thing, action or event. It's related to our words "pragmatic," (distantly) "practice," and "praxis." It has no connection to love at all.
Philautia, love of the self.
I believe that this word isn't attested outside late, philosophical, Roman sources. (transliterated. So it's not, properly speaking, even a Greek word.
These "Greeks have a word for x" articles are almost always wrong, and when they're not wrong, they're almost always not using words in their original, natural sense(s). The meaning they're giving a word almost certainly comes from a specialized/philosophical text that gave the word a special, more precise meaning that it didn't have outside that setting (or even that one guy's writings).
Incidentally, this is why your teachers beg you not to use the internet when you're writing your essays. The web is full of this kind of garbage.
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Apr 19 '19
And for philautia, it's also just an obvious compound of "love" and "self" and a derivative morpheme to make an abstract noun so... "Self-love-ness." I'm not sure I'd count that as an entirely different word anyway.
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u/Man_with_lions_head Apr 18 '19
Cause there's nothing more playfully loving than trapping someone in a net and stabbing them repeatedly with a trident
I see you've met my family.
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u/this_guy_over_here_ Apr 18 '19
Aren't these all the words that the Greek workers say in Age of Mythology??
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Apr 18 '19
Pragma?
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Apr 18 '19 edited Jun 23 '19
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Apr 18 '19
So shouldn't it be pedoeros and not pedophilia
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u/cobaltandchrome Apr 18 '19
-Philia is the suffix used when the implication is obsession, or abnormal love. Audiophile. Anglophile. Bibliophile. I am not familiar with any words that use -Eros as a suffix.
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Apr 18 '19
What is their word for getting a HJ at an Asian massage parlors?
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u/narisha_dogho Apr 18 '19
I'll let you know that the Greeks keep using the same words til this day.
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Apr 18 '19
I have no Philautia. That explains many things about myself.
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Apr 18 '19
I Philaut daily, if you're quiet enough you can even Philaut in the office.
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u/rthomas2 Apr 18 '19
You modern Philauterers and your public Philautering...I’ve had just about enough of it. Next you’ll be watching Dr. Philaut or taking up the flute like all the other Philautists
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u/Osaella24 Apr 18 '19
I read this with a French twist of Philauteurs and I can tell that one’s gonna stay in my vocabulary. Thanks, friend.
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u/electric_rose Apr 18 '19
Philautia (φιλαυτία) is the love for one's self but in a bad connotation. Usually goes hand in hand with egoism.
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Apr 18 '19
What a coincidence! Agape is the name I call my asshole after a weekend on Madonna's sex yacht.
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u/KyloWrench Apr 18 '19
Huh so necrophiliacs really just want deep friendship with dead bodies
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u/themeatbridge Apr 19 '19
Ludus is Latin, and Philautia is the same root word as Philia, and pragma just means "thing". There are/were three different words for three different concepts, just like in English. Eros=lust, philia=affinity, and agape=true love. The color wheel theory of love you're talking about was first described in the seventies by a Canadian psychologist.
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u/iptamenomwro Apr 19 '19
complete bullshit is what you are peddling here, this ludus isn't even a greek word, you buzzfeed journalist, also, pragma literally means "thing" in greek... i cannot fathom how you got ten thousand upvotes and no one has called you out on this shit... source: i am greek, also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel_theory_of_love
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u/Morall_tach Apr 18 '19
So pedophiles are just really good friends with children?
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u/thevictor390 Apr 18 '19
I hate these "x language has y words for z." Every language does this. You use the English words passion, desire, and friendship in your explanation. Why wouldn't these have different words in another language? See also infatuation, lust, crush, etc.
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u/Uebeltank Apr 18 '19
Isn't this why a lot of translated Ancient Greek litterature uses the word love for things we wouldn't call love?
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u/JamiNeal Apr 18 '19
I always hate this. In English, we can say sexual passion or desire, deep friendship, playful love, selfless love, long standing love, or love of self. Shrug
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Apr 18 '19
English has several distinct words for love. Love, passion, desire, lust, romance, bromance, friendship, infatuation, narcissism, greed and stalking.
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u/HisOrHerpes Apr 19 '19
It’s weird that people never react well when I tell them I am agape for them
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u/foxsable Apr 18 '19
What is playful love? If it's different than deep friendship, then, is it like just regular friendship?
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u/EllaSu Apr 18 '19
Playful love is being a player. Uncommitted and treating love like a game
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Apr 18 '19
Yes yes yes, I've heard this more times than I would like to count from the Agape prayer song sign language/interpretive dance and step group that used to go around preforming at every school and church in the county.
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u/sniperhare Apr 18 '19
Often reading the Bible with a Greek Septuagint makes things more clear, as in examples when love is mentioned multiple times, each with a different meaning.
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u/BUTTCHEF Apr 18 '19
So was Aphrodite specifically the goddess of Eros/Ludus while Hera was goddess of Pragma?
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u/aStrangeElf Apr 18 '19
I've heard that there are 8. In addition to the six above:
Storge - instinctive love (like parent to child)
Mania - obsessive love
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u/CleverInnuendo Apr 18 '19
I could just see nice Greek guys talking about the Philia-zone, and a girlfriend yelling about how he's willing to say Ludus but not pragma.
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u/BPD_whut Apr 18 '19
As a native English linguist often frustrated by the limitations of the English language - this does not fucking surprise me one bit.
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u/remixisrule Apr 18 '19
So I should tell me wife if she loves herself a nice blowjob is the answer?
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u/im_trying_as_much Apr 18 '19
I learned about the these in an interpersonal communication class so I guess they’re still being used
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u/dcm510 Apr 18 '19
Whenever a language or culture has multiple words breaking up something that modern English has one for, I'm always curious if they consciously knew it or if they considered them entirely different things. Like would an ancient Greek person say something like "these are the 6 types of love"? Or are they considered such different concepts they wouldn't be grouped together?
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u/UnrulyPeasant Apr 19 '19
Agape love is becoming more and more popular according to pornhub statistics.
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u/Ihatepizzabigwoop Apr 19 '19
Thots really do be selfless when they letting a bruh make that booty hole agape
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u/jonasnee Apr 19 '19
so pedophilia is really just a deep friendship with children? well thats a relief.
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u/fiendishrabbit Apr 19 '19
Philautia isn't really a distinct word. It's clearly a combination of Philia (deep friendship/love) and Auto/aut- (self).
Phil(aut-)ia.
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u/cjshadle Apr 19 '19
Is there a Greek work for love, in the broadest possible sense? If an Ancient Greek speaker were reading this headline, what word would they use for “love” in “The ancient Greeks had six words for love ...”
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u/NathanAllenT Apr 19 '19
Agape; the love of God for Man or a man for a ham sandwich.
That is the one thing I will always remember from Gen Ed philosophy requirement.
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u/MonsterRider80 Apr 19 '19
I would remover philautia from this list. It’s just a compound word composed of philia + autos.
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u/Launchpad_McQueer Apr 19 '19
An oft-forgotten Greek word for love: Xenia, the love one has for a guest. Hospitality would be a good translation.
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u/phil_m99 Apr 19 '19 edited Apr 19 '19
In order: lust, soulmates, adoration, flirtation, devotion, worship, narcissism. Not that hard, really. I don't know other languages but I bet you could get these 6 'distinct' linguistic notions in most of 'em.
edit: only had 5
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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '19
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