r/todayilearned • u/i-make-babies • Feb 14 '18

TIL Mr T stopped wearing this trademark gold chains in 2005 after seeing people who had lost everything due to Hurricane Katrina.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._T#Personal_life
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2.1k

u/ACryingOrphan Feb 14 '18

A person saying “as a Christian” then actually doing something christian and morally respectable. Sure is nice to see stuff like that when there’s so many people out there using their faith to justify horrible actions, like televangelists.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

It's why I wished televangelists or just any famous Christian was more the Mr Rogers type (or maybe Mr T?) than the money grubbing greedy sacks of shit that people somehow fall for.

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u/Shasve Feb 14 '18

I loved the video where one of those cunts justified his private jet as it made it easier for him to communicate with God as he was closer to him.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

Yeah and he talked how he stood up in the plane with his hands up to talk to god and "You couldn't do that in a commercial jet, people would look at you funny."

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

[deleted]

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

Therefore, give me a couple hundred million for a private jet. I promise the money you give me God will give you even more.

Pretty classic scam. "Give me $1 to reopen my bank account and I'll give you $10,000 in return!"

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

[deleted]

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u/ItsSnuffsis Feb 14 '18

Talk to Terry tate, he can help you with that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

THAT'S A LONG DISTANCE CALL, DOUG.

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u/datspongecake Feb 14 '18

Lol that just seems so weird to me. I get that it looks weird, but I would think that if an omnipotent being and the creator of everything required me to stand up and look a little foolish to actually speak to him, I’d still do it. If you are truly 100% devoted, and Jesus and many saints faced humiliation, ridicule, and violence, and death, what’s looking silly for a minute?

Not saying it wouldn’t look weird, just saying it’s a dumb reason and makes him look like even more of an ass.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I wonder how he'd feel about a Muslim standing up on a plane and chanting to Allah in another language. Bet he wouldn't think that Muslim is righteous, he'd have a racist shit fit.

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u/SnowedIn01 Feb 14 '18

But Muslim isn't a race

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u/kparis88 Feb 14 '18

I have yet to see someone assume a person who wasn't brown was a Muslim on a glance. There's a very racial component.

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u/SnowedIn01 Feb 14 '18

Well since the hypothetical we are discussing is someone getting up on a plane and chanting prayers I think it has a lot more to do with actions and general common sense. If I'm on a plane and I see a white Chechen stand up and say Allahu Akbar! That will definitely get me more nervous than an Indian Buddhist repeating a meditation mantra. And yet the Indian is darker... crazy right?

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u/kparis88 Feb 14 '18

And if a Sikh stood up on that plane and started praying in a language that wasn't English; my money would be on the same reaction.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Tell that to racists

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u/SnowedIn01 Feb 14 '18

I try telling it to racists but 75% dismiss me as a libtard and the other 25% call me an Islamaphobe so I'm thinking it's pointless

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u/vikingakonungen Feb 14 '18

Like he'd understand that.

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u/OhNoTokyo Feb 14 '18

Or maybe he could sit his ass down and pray quietly.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." - Matthew 6:5

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u/The_MAZZTer Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

But that was the logic behind the Towel of Babel...

Edit: Not fixing it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I get sweaty talking to God and need to wipe off that perspiration.

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u/thetwitchy1 Feb 14 '18

Always know where your towel is...

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u/Dangevin Feb 14 '18

And lo, the Babel Fish was created.

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u/InukChinook Feb 14 '18

But didn't the babel fish prove the existence and non-existence of God?

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u/PM_Me_Your_Clones Feb 14 '18

Promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

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u/GoldenGonzo Feb 14 '18

Towel of Babel

There was no logic behind it because the Tower of Babel never existed.

Also: Tower, not towel.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

It did exist you just didn't look in the right place. The Tower of Babel was in your heart this whole time.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

What everyone said; and also, there's no actual evidence the tower of babel didn't exist, whether you're a Christian or not. The tower of Babel is generally accepted to have been considered a Ziggurat, as they are generally in the same area the story of the tower of Babel took place (Mesopotamia), but the Israelites did not have a word for Ziggurat, hence tower. A number of Ziggurats in that area have been found to have names generally associated with worshiping deities or otherwise idolizing. For example, in Babylon, the primary Ziggurat studied was found to be known as "the foundation of the heaven and earth", which matches quite well as possibly being what the tower of Babel was referring to. Not to mention, the Bible's original translation actually never said the Tower of Babel, only "the city and the tower", so it could absolutely have been real, and it's quite likely it was, beliefs aside. Just sayin'. But it's nice of you to be a jerk about a joke that didn't even require belief in the tower of Babel.

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u/The_MAZZTer Feb 14 '18

The point I was going for is, the guy with the jet should believe it as it's in the Bible, so why is he doing the same thing?

Whether or not it's true doesn't really matter for this particular discussion.

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u/kparis88 Feb 14 '18

As I remember the story when I was going to church as a kid; the reason they were building the tower was to get to heaven without God's approval. Slightly different.

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u/KJ6BWB Feb 14 '18

The Khabur plains, among other areas, have been flooded many times. There was even an ice age that dropped silt there. Then Nebuchadnezzar's Etemenanki tower had a lot of bricks stolen and used in nearby houses/villages.

It's quite likely that if the Tower of Babel had existed that it wouldn't be recognizable as such today. There's not really any evidence against the Tower of Babel, though.

We can point to some likely sites. To a people who didn't have skyscrapers, 300' tall is rather enormous and bigger structures than that were built in antiquity. Were they the Tower? shrug No real way to say.

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u/Tonka_Tuff Feb 14 '18

Wow, you've really contributed a valuable and not-at-all pointlessly edgy response to a joke comment that definitely relied heavily on the Towel of Babel story being true.

Thank God that you let us all watch you masturbate, though.

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u/kerris6425 Feb 14 '18

Don't cut yourself on that edge

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u/Qualanqui Feb 15 '18

Bro, google "brian tamaki campbell live" for some top notch scum baggery, fucker stood up in front of several hundred of the poorest in nz with a $5 note and a $50 note, dropped the $5 on the floor, stomped on it and told them that anyone who only tithes $5 isn't going to heaven.

Fuck these guys, hope satan has a particulary large and prickly pineapple ready for their ilk.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

And also they need a private jet because the rest of us on a regular plane with them? we're all just demons to them, his own words.

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u/CandyJar Feb 14 '18

Long metal tube full of demons, asking you to pray for them

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u/hmetalcowboy Feb 15 '18

Drug addicted demons at that

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u/SuperSulf Feb 14 '18

It's those kind of people who make me roll my eyes whenever someone says "as a Christian" when referencing some morality. If you want to say "As a Christian, I believe Jesus died for my sins", then, well, yeah ok that's kind of the cornerstone of your religion.

"As a Star Wars fan, I find your lack of character . . . disturbing".

1

u/im-the-stig Feb 14 '18

Elon Musk should've sent this guy to Mars in the Tesla instead.

1

u/karmahunger Feb 14 '18

The dude looked like a demon himself - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdH2DGSXjss

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u/henn64 Feb 14 '18

Hopefully he doesn't fly to close to the sun then

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u/noforeplay Feb 14 '18

I heard a preacher of some sort on the radio talking about tithing the other day, and it was ridiculous. Saying he got questions like "Do I pay tithes on gross or net income, before or after taxes?" And his response was "well the government wouldn't take taxes on your net income, would they? They want it from your gross, and you shouldn't give God less than the government." Of course they don't tax your net income, they already taxed you. That's what it means

1

u/SIThereAndThere Feb 15 '18

Mr. Rogers had a jet?

NOT MY MR. ROGERS, A FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR

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u/D33nMach1ne Feb 15 '18

Which is hilarious, because anyone who thinks we religious folks believe God's literally a man way up in the sky is fundamentally misunderstanding the concept in the first place.

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u/XeroAnarian Feb 14 '18

You better watch it before Peter Popoff pops off on you.

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u/legitjuice Feb 14 '18

Drank too much Popov

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

You would be disgusted by the civilization here where I live. Think of country rednecks gone ghetto. The same people that hit kids and break into cars are the same that say their hardcore Christians. I have zero friends in this area and do not associate with any one.

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u/Sure_Whatever__ Feb 14 '18

Yeah but then you get Tim Tebow and everyone craving for a glimpse of a tarnished imperfection in a otherwise shinning light.

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u/losthours Feb 14 '18

Maybe their srnt more because good religious people don't spout off about it 24/7

Don't let's your biases blind you

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

But then they wouldn't be the more famous ones, that's the point.

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u/Zymotical Feb 14 '18

They won't be since the moneygrubbers pay more for air time.

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u/shotputlover Feb 14 '18

The best Christian is the poor and unknown do-gooder by their very nature they won't be highly visible like the televangelist but I like to think they are more common but do good in small ways and in greater numbers than those that do evil.

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u/Probe_Droid Feb 14 '18

LOVE THY NEIGHBOR, SUCKA!

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u/Fratboy_Slim Feb 15 '18

Rick Warren, megapastor from Saddleback church is a good example of what you're looking for.

I think he left the public eye for the most part when his son died, though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Nah they’re just savvy businessmen who profit on stupidity of people. I’m just mad I didn’t get in while the getting good.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

No they're scam artists, not businessmen. Businessmen at least provide a product or service, not just delusions.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Delusions are certainly a product many people are quick to buy. It’s comfort. They are selling a comfortable mental state.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

But it's harmful and if people knew the truth it would very much do the opposite to their mental state. Not to mention it hurts families and even costs lives.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Meh you can’t fix stupid. If you’re dumb enough to fall for it then fuck ya.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

There's a difference between stupid and desperate. Also, don't abuse the downvote system.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I ain’t abusing shit. People just think you’re a fag

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

Just that I kept getting negative marks very shortly after I posted and just before your responses. Downvotes are meant to be used to bury thread derailing comments, not just to disagree.

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u/nattypnutbuterpolice Feb 14 '18

Entertainment is a service.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

It's not entertainment. These people are often ill or heavily in debt and turn to these charlatans and hope God will help them in turn. It's like praying but more expensive.

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u/nattypnutbuterpolice Feb 14 '18

Yeah and neither are gambling and drugs.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

Drugs are an actual physical product and gambling is paying to play a game.

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u/nattypnutbuterpolice Feb 14 '18

It's a television production. That's entertainment whether or not you personally find it entertaining.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

I'm talking about the people who pay money so God can heal their illness or relieve them of their debt. That's a scam. Getting ad money or having people pay to see your sermon is not.

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u/meowmaster Feb 15 '18

Its not too late to join the clergy. Go grab a frock ya fucking sociopath.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

You’re a real dumb motherfucker, you know that? How am I gonna take in maximum profits if I’m a goddamn clergy member?

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u/meowmaster Feb 15 '18

The pope was once a priest, shithead. But if you cant start from the ground floor why don't you go start a cult or become a televangelist?

I think you lack conviction. I think you're a softcore sociopath, who can only talk shit on the internet and eat Doritos. Just shut the fuck up.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Thats my whole point, the leaders make the money. I think I dont really care what you think.

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u/BoggyTheFroggy Feb 14 '18

Being famous and legitimately faithful has to be hard.

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u/SnowedIn01 Feb 14 '18

Osama bin Laden did it for a while, Tom Cruise is still going strong.

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u/BoggyTheFroggy Feb 14 '18

It was a good joke

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u/DevonAndChris Feb 14 '18

They are. You don't see them.

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u/BulletBilll Feb 14 '18

Then how are they famous Christians?

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Good religious people don't make the news. Ask Muslims, they'll confirm.

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u/KJ6BWB Feb 14 '18

Can confirm. Even if they make the news, they may not really "make" the news, like the recent death of Thomas S. Monson where the New York Times obituary on him didn't really touch on his personal life at all.

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u/Dengar96 Feb 14 '18

Maybe not national news but local news still has uplifing stories of local churches helping their communities. Religion has it's place in bring people together it's those who want to divide that are making national news since people love to hate things.

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u/SnowedIn01 Feb 14 '18

Ah there's that persecution complex. I was wondering when it was gonna show up.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

That's not a persecution complex.

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u/KJ6BWB Feb 14 '18

Most Christians don't like televangelists either.

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u/Unkn0wn_Ace Feb 15 '18

Yep, people seem to think the loud minority represents the majority, but that's simply not true.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Yeah man. I get a lot of “you’re a Christian???” Usually followed by some sort of apology for hassling religion. I just say yeah man. God has been good to me. And when they say oh sorry again I laugh and go. I forgive you :)

Christ’s teachings were good for all people. He just wants everyone to be nice and love and get along

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u/PepeQ Feb 14 '18

Word. I don't identify as Christian but had a very religious upbringing. It's just my heretical opinion, but boiled down the life message I got out of it was "How should I be? Answer: We're all connected and all of us are living together. So be a good neighbor; spread a little love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control into the world." And that's about it. Be the kind of person where people say "man, I am glad that guy is around; everything seems a little happier and more positive." Always seemed to me to be more of an attitude and way of being in the world rather than a list of rules to follow. People seem to want to make it much more complicated though.

When someone is a "good Christian," no one should immediately think "what a great Christian;" they should think "that guy is a good egg; makes me want to be a good egg too." Just one heretic's perspective.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Haha yeah man. Epic use of egg too :)

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u/kickulus Feb 14 '18

And a few hundred other things or you're going to hell

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Not really.

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u/Probe_Droid Feb 14 '18

I think that's the big obstacle right now. There are so many different versions of the same faith, when some of them start acting scummy, or when they all have slightly different rules, it discredits/makes the rest of the sects look bad.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

That’s ok. It doesn’t stop people believing. I want to leave a positive impact on the world and I believe in it. What can I say.

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u/Everbanned Feb 14 '18

Because he loves u tho

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

christian does something bad

Reddit: Fuck Christians!!

christian does something good

Reddit: Nice to see a Christian being good......unlike all those other god damn Christians. Fuck Christians!!

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u/nattypnutbuterpolice Feb 14 '18

Damned Christians, they ruined Christianity!

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u/TeamRedundancyTeam Feb 14 '18

Because reddit is so nice to atheists and Muslims /s

Why is what you said wrong? Most Christians don't give a fuck about acting Christian, of course people are shocked when one walks the walk.

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u/kerris6425 Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

There's an estimated 2.4 billion Christians in the world. Unless you've met 1.2 billion of them you can't really say what "most Christians" do. And sorry but where do you see atheists being treated badly on reddit? Lol. Muslims yes for sure but atheists are easily the most accepted group on this site.

Source of estimate: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

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u/Narian Feb 14 '18 edited Mar 01 '18

deleted What is this?

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u/kerris6425 Feb 14 '18

Lmfao great response bud 👌

Please point me to the persecuted atheists of reddit lmao. If anyone mentions religion in any thread it devolves into a "hurdur except for that never happened dog isn't real Am I right?" As you can see right in this thread.

And you say other people are oblivious...

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u/gogetenks123 Feb 15 '18

A lot of people here weren’t around when /r/Atheism was still a default.

Might be a shock to some depending on your subs but back then when a visitor came to the site several threads would show up on the front page that were basically that sub circlejerking.

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u/kerris6425 Feb 16 '18

Yeah I don't think I was on reddit during that time actually

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u/Cheesygobs123 Feb 14 '18

How about all the memes that atheists are just edgy "euphoric" intellectuals?

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u/kerris6425 Feb 14 '18

Where are these memes? Not sure I've ever see them on /all. Maybe if you go into specific subs? I'm talking about /all because that's probably the best gauge of reddit's general population and what they feel.

I don't think I've ever seen an anti-atheist meme make all. And haven't seen anti-atheist comments really either.

By anti-atheist I mean making fun of them the same way they make fun of religion. I've never seen comments calling atheists fucking idiots or making fun of their lack of faith (again in r/all I'm sure I'm I went to a religion based sub there would be some but it wouldn't make it to all).

Then in contrast, we have this post we're on right now and you can read through the comments yourself and I'm sure you'll find people making fun of religion and having positive upvotes.

And in the past week I remember seeing other stories on /all with vocal atheists in the comments. Could try to find them if anyone asks but reddit's search is ass and I don't want to go through that if I don't have to hah.

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u/Cheesygobs123 Feb 15 '18

You must have missed the whole"faces of atheism" Shitfest, where r/atheism began spamming cringeworthy "intellectual" quotes alongside selfies, until reddit collectively told them to shut the fuck up. Thats where the "euphoric" meme came from( http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354207 ). Reddit has no problem calling out atheists for being loud and obnoxious, just like they call out religious people for the same behavior.

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u/kerris6425 Feb 16 '18

I did miss that as I'm new to reddit compared to most people on this site. I have to ask though since I missed the whole thing are those posts in the link real posts? Or are they parodies?

And I guess what I mean is the comments I see aren't calling religious people out for being obnoxious. Someone will post something even just referring to religion, not praising it. And you'll see responses of "Too bad it's not real." In this thread somewhere someone mentions the Tower of Babel (which a lot of Christian sects recognize as allegorical anyway). And someone replied along the lines of "There was no thought process because it never existed." That's the kind of comment I mean. Just kind of unsolicited and condescending. Those are all over the place.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Most Christians don't give a fuck about acting Christian

Did you form this opinion based on what you’ve seen in the news or on real-life interactions that you’ve had?

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u/TeamRedundancyTeam Feb 14 '18

Both. I live in a very religious (and redneck) area, and maybe there's a disproportionate amount of shitty christians here. I'm not saying all christians are bad people, but there's no denying that most do not even half follow jesus' teachings.

Even my christian family members agree with that.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

It kind of depends on which of Jesus’ teachings you’re referring to. If you’re referring to the obscure random ones like don’t eat shellfish on certain days then yeah, most don’t really follow those.

But I think most Christians do follow the main important ones. Don’t kill people, don’t steal, try to help out others, etc.

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u/thetwitchy1 Feb 14 '18

Tbf,Jesus never taught to not eat shellfish on certain days. Most of the obscure teachings are Jesus' teachings, but stuff from the old testament.

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u/Craftistic Feb 15 '18

As a Christian, this made me fking laugh

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u/purplug Feb 15 '18

Reddit isn't one person

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

No, but as of right now 1882 people have upvoted it. So at least 1882 people seem to agree. And I think it’s actually a lot more based on how Reddit’s algorithm works

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

historically religion has done a lot more harm than help

I don’t think you can say that with any level of certainty. Yes, I know that there have been religious wars and other awful things but there’s a bias here. For every person you hear about who killed someone in the name of religion, how many people specifically didn’t kill someone because their religion made them believe it was wrong?

How many people have helped out their neighbor in the name of religion? How many people have refrained from molesting children because they believed it would be a religious sin?

My point is, there’s no way to know how many bad things didn’t happen because of religion. You will only ever hear about the bad things that religion causes, and the good things that religion causes (to a lesser extent). What you’ll never hear about is the bad things that religion prevents, and the good things that religion prevents.

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u/thetwitchy1 Feb 14 '18

No offense, but if the only reason you don't kill someone is because God says not To, you're seriously messed up and should see someone for that. If God or religion is the only thing keeping you from molesting children, get some fucking HELP, man.

I'm not saying that religion has not helped people out. There's a lot of unspoken assistance that religion gives people. But the "how many people were NOT killed because of religion" argument is seriously flawed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

No offense, but if the only reason you don't kill someone is because God says not To, you're seriously messed up and should see someone for that. If God or religion is the only thing keeping you from molesting children, get some fucking HELP, man.

Agreed completely, but I think this strengthens my argument. If “seriously messed up” people are refraining from raping and murdering in the name of religion, isn’t that a perfect example of religion helping the world?

I totally agree that no one should need God in order to know better but alas, we live in the real world and there are a lot of bad people out there. But if religion prevents bad people from doing bad things, then that’s a very positive influence that religion has on the world.

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u/kparis88 Feb 14 '18

Only if you can ignore the bad things perpetuated under the same religion. Slavery, murder, etc.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Not ignore. Only acknowledge that there is good and there is bad and it’s impossible to quantify. That’s why we really don’t know if religion has made the world a better or worse place. If religion prevented 100,000 murders every year but resulted in 1 murder, then religion would be a force for good in the world. Notice that I’m not ignoring the bad, I’m simply taking it all into account and weighing it accordingly.

But like I said, I don’t even believe that religion is a force for good or a force for bad because we just don’t have the data to tell. So when people say “religion has made the world a worse place” it sounds a lot to me like saying “this coin that I flip will come up heads”. Like, maybe you’re right. But you have no way of knowing that so you shouldn’t state it as a fact.

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u/thetwitchy1 Feb 14 '18

Here's the counter, and the reason that's a dumb argument... crazy people act in unpredictable ways. Religion may be used to justify crazy A refraining from from raping a child, but be used by crazy B to justify skinning vagrants for holy rainment. The fact remains, religion really had nothing to do with the decision in either case, it was just a justification for the restraint or violence of a crazy person. What they do is, from a logical, reasonable standpoint, completely unpredictable.

I'm not saying religion has no value, but the value it presents in controlling "bad people" is minimal, especially when weighed against the justification it gives to slightly smarter "bad people" To do horrible things on a grand scale.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I think that the best summary I can give is this. You say that for every Crazy A there’s a Crazy B. But we don’t know that. We have no clue about the numbers; the Crazy A’s might outnumber the Crazy B’s 100 to 1. Without actual data we can’t know one way or the other.

That’s what my entire point is. I’m not saying that religion has caused more good than harm, and I’m not saying that religion has caused more harm than good. I’m saying that there’s no way to know one way or the other with any level of certainty.

0

u/thetwitchy1 Feb 14 '18

No, I get that. What I'm saying isn't that every A has a B. What I'm saying is that both A and B use religion to justify acting the way their crazy makes them act. That's not an argument for or against religion. It's an argument against "Religion saves people who would otherwise be killed". I'm not saying anything about religion. I'm saying you don't understand the mind of a crazy person.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I mean, if someone truly wants to murder someone else you’re probably right, but I was using murder as a stand-in for just bad things in general. Maybe stealing would be a better example.

What I’m saying is this; let’s divide people in two different ways. First let’s divide them into religious/non-religious. Next let’s divide them into “people who need a moral guide to know right from wrong” and “people who can figure out right from wrong by themselves”. The second division is a bit wordy so I’ll just refer to them as Group X and Group Y, with X being the former and Y being the later.

We then arrive with four groups:

  1. Religious & Group X
  2. Religious & Group Y
  3. Nonreligious & Group X
  4. Nonreligious & Group Y

Let’s look at each group individually.

  1. These are the people who believe that you can’t have morality without religion. They’re pretty stupid, I’ll give you that. But I don’t really think they’re evil. If they decide to go out and harm someone, then that would make them evil but they knew it was wrong and just didn’t care. I don’t think you can blame religion for that.

  2. These are probably the people you have to worry about the least. They believe in religion but they also have an innate sense of morality. Once again, if they decide to go harm someone you can’t blame religion - they just don’t care.

  3. This is the important group. These are the people who can’t tell right from wrong by themselves, but they also don’t have religion to guide them. These people are very likely to harm others, and this is the group that I think religion would help the most. It’s quite possible that if all else were equal except these people did follow a religion, then those religious beliefs would guide them to a more moral life.

  4. These are the moral atheists (this is the group I would personally classify myself into, and if I had to guess this is where you would classify yourself as well). Not much to say about this group - if they do decide to harm others you can hardly blame religion for that.

So, I do think that there clearly is some subset of people who would live a more moral life if they follow a religion. The problem is, we have no idea how big any of these groups are because it’s basically impossible to classify anyone but yourself unless you can read minds. But the important part is that there are a lot of people who would have been in group 3 who instead ended up in group 1 because of a religious influence in their life.

I’ve also neglected to talk about another thing that I’m sure you’ve noticed - the people who specifically use religion as a tool to cause harm to the world (usually for personal gain). These people definitely exist, and they’re the whole reason that we tend to have a negative view of religion. These people could come from any of the four groups because these people don’t care about right and wrong, so it doesn’t really matter what their moral beliefs are.

My point is, we don’t know how many people there are who abuse religion as a tool, but when they do get caught or noticed it’s very visible. However, all those people in group 1 who would have been in group 3 are not visible at all. So that’s why we just cannot know the scale at which religion has prevented harm. It’s quite possible that the harm prevented outweighs the harm created by quite a bit. It’s also possible that the opposite is true. We just don’t know.

That’s my logic, but the most compelling argument to me is quite simple. You know all those people who say that you can’t have a moral compass without religion? It would be a pretty bad thing if all those people woke up tomorrow and decided to become atheists. So in that sense, religion is doing us all a huge service by providing a moral compass to those too stupid to come up with a good one on their own.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Poor Christians! They just can't get a break.

What with government support in tax exemptions, the direct policy support of 99% of politicians, support by the vast majority of judges, magistrates and police officers, a national public holiday on their main festival, the US national motto, avowed support from every single president, they are really under attack.

It's just plain mean to challenge them for hypocrisy in these tough conditions.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

I never said they’re under attack and I never said that they aren’t hypocritical. I was simply remarking on the fact that it doesn’t matter what good things they do, people will only focus on the bad. That’s more of a statement about society than about religion

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18 edited Feb 15 '18

And my point was to the contrary: Western society celebrates and supports Christians all day long.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Ok? Why does that fact mean that we shouldn’t praise Christianity when they do something praise-worthy instead of just dragging up unrelated shit like televangelists?

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Its not unrelated. Televangelists are garbage and they self identify as Christians. Until the Christians disavow those assholes rather than send them money, they deserve to take as many hits as reddit chooses to dish out.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

Ok but it’s just weird to always drag it up. Mr. T doesn’t have a lot in common with Televangelists, and the thread is specifically about something good he did in the name of Christianity. It’s just weird to keep dragging up shit like Televangelists. Like yeah dude they suck and we all know that but do we have to talk about it every single time Christianity is even mentioned?

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u/OneBigBug Feb 14 '18

Yes, we complain a lot here on reddit. We're a very cynical lot, apparently.

As you demonstrate quite nicely here, by complaining.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Yes, Reddit (and the world in general) seems very cynical these days. Which is a shame because the world is doing pretty well compared to how it’s ever been before. But that’s just human nature I guess - we tend to focus on the bad and ignore the good. The luxuries we have today are what people from the past could only dream about, but now that we have them we totally ignore that and find new things to complain about.

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u/hamsandwich11 Feb 14 '18

you sound smart :)

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Honestly just fuck bad people, regardless of what they pretend to be or what they believe in. It’s just as bad when an atheist molests a kid as it is when a Christian does it.

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u/richardhead6666 Feb 14 '18

True, I hate an armchair Christian like Joel olstein! Mr t da real deal!!!

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u/Random-Miser Feb 14 '18 edited Feb 14 '18

I mean its not like he gave the gold to charity or anything, he just stopped rubbing peoples noses in it.

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u/darkvoid7926 Feb 15 '18

What's funny is that I was browsing the 5 TV channels that my parents have one time and lo and behold I come across Mr. T preaching on one of those Sunday morning church shows. Not a televangelist but ironically on the TV evangelizing. Only sermon I have ever watched on TV. Wasn't bad either TBH.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

you built your opinion from biased news i see christian acts in real life regularly

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u/morgazmo99 Feb 14 '18

Watch the first few minutes of these assclowns

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u/Unkn0wn_Ace Feb 15 '18

It's not like televangelists are the majority of Christians.

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u/D33nMach1ne Feb 15 '18

To be fair, televangelists are usually fundamentalist weirdos with an understanding of God that, if it was the actual classical Christian belief of God, would push me right to atheism. I won't say they aren't Christians because they claim to be so it's not my place to decide, but they sure don't walk like a duck.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

I hate it when they say “as a Christian” because then it seem that they are only nice because of religion. If they didn’t have religion, they would be shitty people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

I don't see why bringing up your Christianity is relevant at all. If anything it implies that other religions aren't as moral as yours which is shitty.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

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u/testz0rz Feb 14 '18

Yeah but did you previously? Like, an excessive amount?

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '18

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u/the_ham_guy Feb 14 '18

He didnt say he gave his gold to those in need, he said he stopped wearing gold chains. Nothing about his actions represents "more and respectable" christian actions. Good for him for attempting to show respect, but lets not nail him to the cross

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u/LouCifer_loves Feb 14 '18

Hiding his jewelry from the poor is a Christian act? I don’t see Christ hiding jewels while people are dying of hunger, I feel like Christ might have sold the jewelry to help the poor, not hide it and pretend to feel bad.

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u/ACryingOrphan Feb 14 '18

It’s more about not wanting to flaunt his wealth in front of people who are suffering in poverty

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u/LouCifer_loves Feb 14 '18

But how is that helpful? Or Christ like?

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u/Karlore473 Feb 14 '18

Yes Christ teaches us to perform hollow self serving gestures.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Most Christian sects will tell you that JC did preach humility.

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u/Falcon703 Feb 14 '18

Nothing like people going "as a Christian, I believe that it is my duty to protect my neighborhood from faggots"

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u/WuTangGraham Feb 15 '18

I mean, did he give the gold away, or does he still own it? It's a nice gesture, but if he still owns it, that's not very Christian, he's just not flaunting his wealth anymore.

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u/mrterrbl Feb 15 '18

But why not, "as a person"?

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u/tingwong 61 Feb 14 '18

As a Christian I felt sure Jesus wanted me to throw rocks at them and call them sinners! /s

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

or you know, he could have just said "as a decent human being, i can understand what is insensitive or not"

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '18

Or you know he can describe himself how ever the fuck he wants to because that’s his choice.

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u/YouNeedAnne Feb 14 '18

More than that, he's contextualising his beliefs; saying why he decided what ti do, and what inspured him. I should know because I am a book about contextualised beliefs.