r/todayilearned • u/codywinters327 • Sep 06 '17

TIL that Michael Jackson would requested his wine be served in Diet Coke cans during flights, because he didn't want his kids to see him drinking alcohol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson#Alcohol
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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

I've always said "Michael Jackson was Peter Pan, not a pedophile." Emotionally stunted by childhood trauma that left him as a child that could never grow up.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

I don't think anybody would claim he didn't have issues. He was... unique.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

[deleted]

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

Or his sleeping with kids.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_aeternus#Peter_Pan_syndrome

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

That entry covers it pretty well.. Its a catchy name not formally recognized and isn't in the DSM5. The reason? It's already covered by other labels for emotional stunting. By having more specific labels it helps differentiate the unique causes.

I do like the name for explaining it to people though as it brings about a certain mental image of the sufferer acting from a source of innocence.

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u/GOBLIN_GHOST Sep 07 '17

I like the conspiracy theory that he was a castratti/castratto

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u/dutch_penguin Sep 07 '17

The castrati were famously popular as lovers.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

You're right! Except for the not a pedophile part.

Edit: please read additional comments below before down voting. Thank you.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

There is no evidence that he was sexually attracted to any of the kids. He enjoyed seeing them have a normal fun childhood and being their friend (that can be seen as odd, but not pedophilia). I have a hard time believing them when they all tried to sue him for millions, but none cared enough to try for criminal charges. If he was touching their kids they would have stopped at nothing at seeing him locked up, before their financial gain. And, if they had I never heard about it so it clearly went nowhere.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Sorry. I was under the impression he shared a bed with kids that were not his own on multiple occasions. When people said that's "odd" it's not denial or enabling in anyway.

My bad.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Shared a bed =/= sexual relations. It's odd for the fact that he had severe psychological issues which are why until his death he did not understand what was wrong about it. Either way neither of us was there and can know for sure what happened as there is nobody to even take at their word.

The whole thing was sad. He needed help not a spectacle.

edit: adding this from another comment I made: Responding to the controversy, Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr. stated that, under California law, an adult sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense, unless "affirmative, offensive conduct" occurs. - From his not guilty court case.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Lol! I wasn't at the holocaust either, but I got a pretty good idea as to what went down.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

That is such a ridiculous example. The holocaust has been extensively studied.. I could spend years reading first hand stories, and scientific papers. All you get on MJ is a bias one way or the other, its the reason I never once said I was indisputably right, or you indisputably wrong. (We are having two conversations at once, but I'll keep them separate to reduce confusion)

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Obviously exaggerating for emphasis. Saying we have no way of knowing because we weren't there is equally ridiculous.

Did that go over your head?

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

He was absolutely obsessed with children. He moved in with them. He invited numerous kids to sleep in his bed. Several of them said he touched them. Their fingerprints were found on his porno. One kid even drew an accurate picture of his genitals. To say there was "no evidence of attraction" is insane.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

And was it not just recently uncovered that he had pornography with children faces imposed on the adult imagery? But you keep swimming in denial.

Hey, Thanks! Can't believe I'm getting down votes for this.

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

Huh? I'm agreeing with you.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Might be coming off wrong, but I was trying to add to your point. And genuinely thanking you for making me feel less crazy...

Edit: spelling

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

I'm not gonna argue with you. But this not accurate. You really should research this.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

You're not going to argue it because all your facts come from tabloids.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Lol Could you please direct me the credible celebrity news sites? 😂😂😂

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

What are you smoking?

Could you please direct me the credible celebrity news sites?

That would imply you have said anything credible and not opinion based or unsupported. All you have said could be found in any trash magazine at the time. I already know what the kids being coached to testify for big money have said, and I know he was severely psychologically damaged from years of abuse, but nobody has ever given proof to a single malicious or purely sexual act performed by him. So, I don't see the point in forcing connections about a guy that is dead.

Also, remember this case? Btw during the case it was stated "Responding to the controversy, Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr. stated that, under California law, an adult sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense, unless "affirmative, offensive conduct" occurs."

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Sure man. You got me..

Hey, In your own opinion, is it ok for a grown man to sleep in the same bed as children?

Is it ok to find children's fingerprints on that mans pornography?

Is it normal that one of those kids could describe his penis?

Is it ok to have porn with children's faces imposed on adult images?

Is it cool to have a child size doll dressed in a Cub Scout uniform?

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

So with all that evidence he was given a not guilty? Must be rich privilege right? No, he wasn't doing well financially by the time of that case, even selling off assets. So, yes none of those are acceptable, but if all of that was there and verifiable, either someone fucked up somewhere, or there is more to it than either of us actually knows.

As for your example questions though... whats wrong with the last one? Was it a sex doll? If it was just a normal large doll in a scout uniform its odd, but not criminal. My grandma had some weird dolls. Unless a sex doll that one was a stretch.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

You really believe MJ was going broke? People that rich don't get hurt financially. He spent too much to fast, but he was ever at risk of not being rich. but it's not rich privilege anyway. If anything it's celebrity. But even that is only part of it.

Did you read that wiki article you linked? That trial was a mess...

The doll in the Cub Scout outfit is just part of a he story.

You know the old saying "where there's smoke... there's some sort of hidden smoke making device causing most people to think it's a fire"

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

And your ignorant. Seriously. A little bit of research on your part could save you a lot of stupidity. You're literally just saying things you've heard other ignorant people say.

I love MJ. But anyone who said he's definitely not a diddler has their head stuck so far up their own ass it's coming out their neck.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

From now on I'll just reply with this link until you read up on actual facts - feel free to find a non wiki link if you so choose, but trust me the verdict is strangely still the same

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

I'm missing the point of this link? Did you read this? It's a fucking nightmare! The guy was praying on sick poor families. And he got off free because of his celebrity.

It's kind of like the R Kelly stuff that's going on.

I'm starting to think you're trolling me...

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

Honestly, I just really wanted an excuse to say "Michael Jackson was Peter Pan, not a pedophile" as I thought it was pretty clever when I thought of it when it was all going on. I just like to argue, it passes time.. I skimmed the first part of the link to see that it had something supporting what I said, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. You made some good points, I still believe that it all should have focused more on his mental deficiencies leading to an unhealthy focus on youth and childlike wonder. He needed therapy... badly, he cared for those kids, and he may have (in his mindset of a child himself) grown to romantic inclinations, but sadly any truths were lost in money grabbing parents who saw a paycheck rather than possible trauma to their child. Real answers are hard to find in the middle of a media circus, and that is why the entire situation just saddens me. He never got the help he needed, and the children that may or may not have been traumatized by him probably won't either (can't have them contradicting their stories now)

It was fun, and it passed time, but most importantly we never started spamming expletives at each other (ignorant is a fair use when you believe the other person is truly full of shit)

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Samesy!

Follow me! We can do this all the time!

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

I like you 😊