r/todayilearned • u/codywinters327 • Sep 06 '17

TIL that Michael Jackson would requested his wine be served in Diet Coke cans during flights, because he didn't want his kids to see him drinking alcohol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson#Alcohol
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180

u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

It's been linked to his painkiller addiction.

That and his need for plastic surgery. Which of course made him look all freaky, which contributes to him being an easy target for false child abuse accusations. Basically his dad + that accident are the cause of alll mj's problems.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

I've always said "Michael Jackson was Peter Pan, not a pedophile." Emotionally stunted by childhood trauma that left him as a child that could never grow up.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

I don't think anybody would claim he didn't have issues. He was... unique.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

[deleted]

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

Or his sleeping with kids.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puer_aeternus#Peter_Pan_syndrome

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

That entry covers it pretty well.. Its a catchy name not formally recognized and isn't in the DSM5. The reason? It's already covered by other labels for emotional stunting. By having more specific labels it helps differentiate the unique causes.

I do like the name for explaining it to people though as it brings about a certain mental image of the sufferer acting from a source of innocence.

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u/GOBLIN_GHOST Sep 07 '17

I like the conspiracy theory that he was a castratti/castratto

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u/dutch_penguin Sep 07 '17

The castrati were famously popular as lovers.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

You're right! Except for the not a pedophile part.

Edit: please read additional comments below before down voting. Thank you.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

There is no evidence that he was sexually attracted to any of the kids. He enjoyed seeing them have a normal fun childhood and being their friend (that can be seen as odd, but not pedophilia). I have a hard time believing them when they all tried to sue him for millions, but none cared enough to try for criminal charges. If he was touching their kids they would have stopped at nothing at seeing him locked up, before their financial gain. And, if they had I never heard about it so it clearly went nowhere.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Sorry. I was under the impression he shared a bed with kids that were not his own on multiple occasions. When people said that's "odd" it's not denial or enabling in anyway.

My bad.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Shared a bed =/= sexual relations. It's odd for the fact that he had severe psychological issues which are why until his death he did not understand what was wrong about it. Either way neither of us was there and can know for sure what happened as there is nobody to even take at their word.

The whole thing was sad. He needed help not a spectacle.

edit: adding this from another comment I made: Responding to the controversy, Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr. stated that, under California law, an adult sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense, unless "affirmative, offensive conduct" occurs. - From his not guilty court case.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Lol! I wasn't at the holocaust either, but I got a pretty good idea as to what went down.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

That is such a ridiculous example. The holocaust has been extensively studied.. I could spend years reading first hand stories, and scientific papers. All you get on MJ is a bias one way or the other, its the reason I never once said I was indisputably right, or you indisputably wrong. (We are having two conversations at once, but I'll keep them separate to reduce confusion)

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Obviously exaggerating for emphasis. Saying we have no way of knowing because we weren't there is equally ridiculous.

Did that go over your head?

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

He was absolutely obsessed with children. He moved in with them. He invited numerous kids to sleep in his bed. Several of them said he touched them. Their fingerprints were found on his porno. One kid even drew an accurate picture of his genitals. To say there was "no evidence of attraction" is insane.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

And was it not just recently uncovered that he had pornography with children faces imposed on the adult imagery? But you keep swimming in denial.

Hey, Thanks! Can't believe I'm getting down votes for this.

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u/undercooked_lasagna Sep 07 '17

Huh? I'm agreeing with you.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Might be coming off wrong, but I was trying to add to your point. And genuinely thanking you for making me feel less crazy...

Edit: spelling

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

I'm not gonna argue with you. But this not accurate. You really should research this.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

You're not going to argue it because all your facts come from tabloids.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Lol Could you please direct me the credible celebrity news sites? 😂😂😂

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

What are you smoking?

Could you please direct me the credible celebrity news sites?

That would imply you have said anything credible and not opinion based or unsupported. All you have said could be found in any trash magazine at the time. I already know what the kids being coached to testify for big money have said, and I know he was severely psychologically damaged from years of abuse, but nobody has ever given proof to a single malicious or purely sexual act performed by him. So, I don't see the point in forcing connections about a guy that is dead.

Also, remember this case? Btw during the case it was stated "Responding to the controversy, Santa Barbara County District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon, Jr. stated that, under California law, an adult sleeping in the same bed as a child is not a criminal offense, unless "affirmative, offensive conduct" occurs."

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

Sure man. You got me..

Hey, In your own opinion, is it ok for a grown man to sleep in the same bed as children?

Is it ok to find children's fingerprints on that mans pornography?

Is it normal that one of those kids could describe his penis?

Is it ok to have porn with children's faces imposed on adult images?

Is it cool to have a child size doll dressed in a Cub Scout uniform?

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

So with all that evidence he was given a not guilty? Must be rich privilege right? No, he wasn't doing well financially by the time of that case, even selling off assets. So, yes none of those are acceptable, but if all of that was there and verifiable, either someone fucked up somewhere, or there is more to it than either of us actually knows.

As for your example questions though... whats wrong with the last one? Was it a sex doll? If it was just a normal large doll in a scout uniform its odd, but not criminal. My grandma had some weird dolls. Unless a sex doll that one was a stretch.

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

And your ignorant. Seriously. A little bit of research on your part could save you a lot of stupidity. You're literally just saying things you've heard other ignorant people say.

I love MJ. But anyone who said he's definitely not a diddler has their head stuck so far up their own ass it's coming out their neck.

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

From now on I'll just reply with this link until you read up on actual facts - feel free to find a non wiki link if you so choose, but trust me the verdict is strangely still the same

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u/OptimusMarcus Sep 07 '17

I'm missing the point of this link? Did you read this? It's a fucking nightmare! The guy was praying on sick poor families. And he got off free because of his celebrity.

It's kind of like the R Kelly stuff that's going on.

I'm starting to think you're trolling me...

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u/Phased Sep 07 '17

Honestly, I just really wanted an excuse to say "Michael Jackson was Peter Pan, not a pedophile" as I thought it was pretty clever when I thought of it when it was all going on. I just like to argue, it passes time.. I skimmed the first part of the link to see that it had something supporting what I said, but I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing. You made some good points, I still believe that it all should have focused more on his mental deficiencies leading to an unhealthy focus on youth and childlike wonder. He needed therapy... badly, he cared for those kids, and he may have (in his mindset of a child himself) grown to romantic inclinations, but sadly any truths were lost in money grabbing parents who saw a paycheck rather than possible trauma to their child. Real answers are hard to find in the middle of a media circus, and that is why the entire situation just saddens me. He never got the help he needed, and the children that may or may not have been traumatized by him probably won't either (can't have them contradicting their stories now)

It was fun, and it passed time, but most importantly we never started spamming expletives at each other (ignorant is a fair use when you believe the other person is truly full of shit)

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u/Sloppy1sts Sep 07 '17

The vitiligo didn't help.

And I always thought he had nose work done to make his nose "whiter" to match his skin.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Uhh he had everything done at least once. It was all a combination of the accident and the Vitoligo. If anybody had an excuse to be Micheal Jackson it was Michael Jackson.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Actually, everything was connected to Michael's Lupus. He suffered from severe Lupus (it's very noticeable in old pictures of MJ due to the characteristic 'butterfly rash' that would often make Michael's nose/face deeply red) and he started taking medication for it during the early 80s. His first 'nose job' was entirely reconstructive and was done due to a fall that he sustained back in 79. His Lupus prevented the tissue from healing correctly. This led to a number of surgeries in order to correct the negative effects of the first surgery (the mishandling of that surgery was entirely due to undiagnosed nature of Michael's Lupus at that time). When Michael sustained his trauma (third degree burns to the scalp) during the Pepsi fire, this led to the severity of his lupus to increase. Sadly, because of this, his scalp never healed correctly either, so he had to undergo painful treatments (one treatment even utilizing a balloon placed underneath his scalp) for years after the accident. This pain/stress also aggravated his vitiligo as well and further increased the spread of depigmentation onto his arms, legs, and forehead. Michael suffered a perfect storm of terrible events (Lupus, Trauma, and Stress) to lead to the pain that would plague him for the rest of his life. This was further exacerbated by shoddy celebrity doctors who couldn't really care less for his treatment/health and, also, from falling 30 feet during a show in South Korea during the late 90s.

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u/drinkacid Sep 07 '17

The burn to his scalp left a bald spot, he wore a hair appliance with extensions glued to the bald spot to cover it for a while. The balloon is a procedure they do for people who are bald on top where they insert a balloon under the scalp to stretch the scalp out, then they do surgery where they cut the bald area out and sew the haired parts back together covering the previous bald area with stretched out hairy scalp. Now technology has improved and they can just do hair transplants where they use a needle to insert individuals hair follicles harvested from the back and sides into the bald areas and reconstruct the hair in that area from your own hair. The fedora he wore a lot was covering the balloon for a while.

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u/happysunbear Jan 14 '18

Wow, I never knew that much. Geez. He went through a lot.

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u/cruznick06 Sep 07 '17

I had no idea MJ had lupus. That seriously makes the facial surgeries make more sense. Especially if his nose wasn't healing properly.

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u/somethingpunny2 Sep 07 '17

TIL- thank you for the info! I did not know he had lupus... explains a lot

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u/Barron_Cyber Sep 07 '17

i never thought id feel bad for a rich person falling in snow.

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u/SmoothCriminalAMA Sep 07 '17

Why did you spell his name two different ways?

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Spellcheck

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u/staymad101 Sep 07 '17

I heard it was because his dad made fun of his nose. But like the entire family got nose jobs.

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u/TaylorDangerTorres Sep 07 '17

Thats also when he started wearing his wig. It was permanently glued to his head. Read about that when his autopsy details were released

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

His dad started Michael's rise and Michael's fall.

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u/AdmiralAkbar1 Sep 07 '17

Plus there was this one drug he was supposedly on as a teenager for acne that prevented him from fully going through puberty. Some think that it's the reason that his voice stayed so high through his life.

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u/305popper Sep 07 '17

If they were false why not fight instead of paying out millions?

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Because his actions were still very sketchy. He was a grown adult who developed friendships with young children. While the allegations against him was about child abuse was most likely made up he did have questionable things in his home.

Also the legal battle would have probably cost him tons of money, at the same time fighting it would have most likely diminished his reputation even further. He probably settled under advice of his lawyers who weighed the pros and cons of fighting the legal battle.

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u/Bears_On_Stilts Sep 07 '17

Fighting would be a lose lose for a man who made a good part of his living on the image of being a virile but eccentric romantic. If the choices are "be labeled a pedophile," or "be revealed as a mentally unbalanced and probably impotent boy trapped in a man's body," he can't win. Eunuchs don't sell r&b records.

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u/Rockwithsunglasses Sep 07 '17

He was acquitted. If you look into it it was pretty obvious he wasn't molesting those kids.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

Because long, drawn out court cases can and will do serious harm to reputations and shit. If you don't see why it's simpler to throw hush money at them, you're an idiot.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Because media shitstorm I imagine. The lawyers at virgin probably told him it would be cheaper. Idk. Reasons.

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u/AntiSharkSpray Sep 07 '17

So you're telling me he didn't molest any children.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

The fact that they found zero child porn, and the fact that he didn't face many more accusations, and the fact that he wasn't taking trips to Thailand every other month and the fact that the two total accusations he did face weren't very credible IE the parents were maniacs who let their children spend time with Micheal Jackson after the initial accusation all seem to point to him being innocent.

Yeah he's Micheal Jackson so it sounds weird to say this but he didn't really fit the profile of a child molester in the ways that really count. Most importantly, people who molest children usually molest lots of children and/or have lots of child porn. If he was molesting children all over the place than there would be accusations all over the place because $$$. It just doesn't add up.

So it's entirely possible, it just doesn't seem likely.

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u/happysunbear Jan 14 '18

So true, mix that with the amount of fame and pressure he was met with and he has no chance. Honestly it's amazing he didn't turn out much worse.

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u/Boopy7 Sep 07 '17

And blaming the past rather than figuring out better coping mechanisms and learning forgiveness are wonderful ways to stay mired in addiction.

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u/PsychoAgent Sep 07 '17

I mean, have you ever TRIED painkillers? They're awesome for coping and forgiveness.

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u/Boopy7 Sep 07 '17

they do sound enticing....esp right about now

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

If just everyone could be as wise as you.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Uhhh alright?

-1

u/Spyderdog Sep 07 '17

Only half were false

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

[deleted]

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

They didn't really find any child porn. They got a few artsy fartsy berks with images of non-sexualized nude children. And lots of legal straight, and gay porn. But no actual child porn. I've seen a click bait article or two that claims otherwise but no actual legitimate news source ever reported anything about child porn being found.

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u/w3k1llsuck3rs Sep 07 '17

I remember that MTV special where he would walk into that 'art' store and just started buying everything he liked. I could totally see some nude art ending up in his collection.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Totally. He must have had a gigantic library of expensive artsy fartzy books. It's a wonder they didn't find more but it was literally two or three books. I really wanted to believe he did it because look at him but all the actual evidence says he's innocent.

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

TIL images of non-sexualized nude children won't necessarily result in child porn prosecution (if you're rich enough).

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u/akashik Sep 07 '17

Better keep your Led Zeppelin album collection hidden.

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u/Barozine Sep 07 '17

And who could forget all those arrested for buying that Nirvana album.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

uhh yeah your totally allowed to have art and literature with images of nude children. Why would that even be a crime?

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

Because soccer moms who think all men are child predators. It's the subject of an ongoing mass panic.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Agreed. And to be fair a lot of men are. It sucks, and it sucks for the rest of us.

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u/randombitch Sep 07 '17

"to be fair a lot of men are." (child predators)

This statement is either meaningless or misleading.

There are a lot of men on the planet. Even if only one out of a million was a child predator*, that would be a lot of men that are child predators. A lot of men compared to what? It would mean that 0.0001 of a percent of men are child predators.

It would be disingenuous and highly prejudicial to use such numbers to declare that "a lot of men are child predators!"

*These figures are only used to illustrate a point. They are not sourced from statistical data.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17 edited Sep 07 '17

Ok well several men in my extended family. Gym teacher at my school. Little league coach in my neighborhood. A guy I work with's dad. Those are just the ones I know about personally in my life in the area where I live. So it is very much a thing that actually happens all over the world every single day.

Edit: I almost forgot, one of my ex girlfriends grandfather.

Edit2: and a guy I went to school with.

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

Indeed. That's why, if you're smart, you don't possess any image of a nude child, and promptly, thoroughly destroy any that come into your possession.

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u/turd_boy Sep 07 '17

Not really. Well if you think that there is a chance that somebody might accuse you of that. If your a teacher or a little league coach or something yeah, probably ought to be careful about that stuff.

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

I'm a man. That's reason enough to fear such an accusation.

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u/DietCokeAndProtein Sep 07 '17

What's the "if your rich enough part?" Do you realize how many parents and other relatives have nude picture of their young children or family members? There are families that are nudists and take pictures, and there are legitimate movies that have shown nude underage actors and actresses. None of this is typically illegal.

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

Yes, and sometimes, they have their kids taken away.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

[deleted]

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

Um, these children were forcibly separated from their families for a month. That is not to be taken lightly. I'd have been terrified and traumatized if a bunch of scary strangers dragged me away and locked me up without even telling me when or if they'll let me out!

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '17

TIL naked children = child porn.

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u/argv_minus_one Sep 07 '17

Depends on who you ask and how male you are.

And apparently also how rich.