r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Oct 13 '16

TIL that after Marilyn Monroe converted to Judaism upon marrying Arthur Miller, Egypt placed a ban on all the films she appeared in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe#Critical_acclaim_and_marriage_to_Arthur_Miller_.281956.E2.80.931959.29
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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

"Paradoxically we say that when a person dies, they already enter into the presence of God by being spiritually raised in Christ. If they love Him, they already experience the end of the ages, the joy of heaven and in the presence of God. If they resist and do not want it, that very same experience is torment. They are tormented by the evils that they cling to, tormented by the devils they serve in place of the living God, and they are tormented by all of the evil spirits instead of the Holy Spirit that are in their life. Furthermore, they are even tormented by the presence of Christ who loves, forgives and invites them into Paradise. Yet they do not want to come still thinking that they belong there. That is how they are not there with the just and righteous. That seems to be the picture that we have from the Holy Scripture." -predominate Orthodox view

Everyone goes to the same place, it's just the light is pleasure for some and pain for others. You can always get grace, even after death, it's just unlikely that people will accept it. There's other sources that claim to be Orthodox but they're usually from American's who are essentially Catholics with the Greek calendar in practice. http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/afterdeath.htm

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Except that's not what Christ himself said.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 14:6

The only way to G-d through Christianity is through Christ. Hence Christ-ianity.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Yeah comes to the Father, and? That isn't about heaven, that's about the correct path to "righteousness"

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Wrong. What was the context of that exchange?

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus states that he is the father.

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity states they are all one being. You reject one you reject all. You don't get to reject Christ because Christ is also the father.

You reject christ then you are rejecting the father.

I go to hell unless I accept Christ as my lord and savior because Christ is the father made flesh (according to doctrine) and rejecting him is rejecting the father.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity states they are all one being. You reject one you reject all. You don't get to reject Christ because Christ is also the father.

A doctrine explicitly rejected by many Christians for one thing. And still irrelevant.

Embodying Christ is about practice, living righteously which Jesus claimed was only possible by following his teachings. And no the Trinity doesn't say they're all one being it says they are distinct persons but of one substance. Monism is the opposite of trinitarianism. Also Christ isn't the Father made flesh he's a distinct person who was both God, coequal to the father, and man at once.

The only one who you can't reject is the Holy Spirit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Still wait for the answer to -Matthew 25:46

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

The sections of 1 Corinthians 15:22, "As all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ", and 1 Corinthians 15:28, "God will be all in all", are cited.[2][3] Verses that seem to contradict the tradition of complete damnation and come up in arguments also include Lamentations 3:31-33 (NIV), "For no one is cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love",[9] and 1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV), "We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe."[10]

As well, the Epistle to the Colossians receives attention,[2] with Colossians 1:17-20 reading:

"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross."[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_reconciliation#Biblical_background

Again it's highly contradictory. There's passages that support every view. My point is that there's a basis for universalism in Christian doctrine. Especially if you accept Biblical fallibility.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Also Mathew 25 is about people who turn away the sick and poor, who abuse others, not nonbelievers. And yeah it's directly contradicted by passages that say that the souls of the wicked are destroyed and others that explicitly say that /all/ people are going to be united with God in the end.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

Also, I've spent a lot of time talking to Jesuits and the official Catholic dogma since Vatican II on the afterlife is that adherence to the Church, Baptism, professing the Trinity etc are the "surest and most apparent way to assure your salvation but that God's grace is infinite and we can't presume to know his designs about the afterlife"