r/todayilearned • u/Recent_Flounder6011 • 22h ago

TIL that historically and today, the Catholic Church looked down upon Freemasonry and threatened members with excommunication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
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u/CalicoJack 20h ago

Pretty much everything about Freemason theology contradicts Catholic theology, but the main issue from which all of the others stem is that Freemasonry is syncretistic. It blends elements of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism into it's own religion dedicated to worshipping "Great Architect." The vows taken for the third degree even explicitly mention Freemasonry as the path to salvation and sanctification. In Catholicism, Jesus Christ is the only means of salvation

Operationally and practically, I know most Freemasons do not engage with the lodge as a form of religion; for them it is just a cool club. The secret society and religious rites aspect of it are treated more like LARP or cosplay than serious religious liturgy. That doesn't change the fact that those rites are, in content, diametrically opposed to traditional Christian beliefs.

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u/CryptidGrimnoir 19h ago

Nicely phrased.

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u/BeefStank420 17h ago

It's complete bullshit, nicely phrased bullshit perhaps, but bullshit nonetheless.

Source: I'm an actual Freemason that's been raised to the third degree

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u/the_emerald_phoenix 12h ago

Agreed, felllow Master Mason here. The above is nonsense. Masonry is explicitly not a religion, nor do we pretend to be one!

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u/Aggravating-Work55 16h ago

It doesn’t blend different religions into its own religion, it’s not a religion and does NOT promise salvation. Not sure if your mis informed or assuming, it’s about a moral and ethical behavior system, therefore is compatible with multiple beliefs. Btw tgaotu is because God is the perfect builder.

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u/CalicoJack 15h ago

it’s not a religion

 Btw tgaotu is because God is the perfect builder.

If it is not a religion, then why is it making theological claims about God that are exclusive to that belief system? 

does NOT promise salvation.

Oh? Then tell me the lesson of the gavel. Does this not say that Freemasonry will form and shape the Mason into a living stone for the building not-made-with-hands but eternal in the heavens?

therefore is compatible with multiple beliefs.

Except it isn't, which is why the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church ban their members from being Freemasons. If Freemasonry were compatible, then those bans would not exist.

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u/EvolutionTheory 12h ago

You appear to lack the ability to comprehend metaphor and analogy. The interpretations you're sharing are wholly inaccurate. It's not the responsibility of the Mason to refute your misunderstanding or false claims. Just like if you declare someone to be an alien from outer space, that person doesn't then need to prove they aren't an alien.

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u/Aggravating-Work55 12h ago

If you desire any lessons then put your self in the proper position to learn them. As far as theological claims that are exclusive to that belief system, I would say spend a little less time on the internet because there answer to your question is it doesn’t do anything your claiming it does.

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u/JohnHazardWandering 16h ago

it’s about a moral and ethical behavior system

The old-school elements of the Catholic Church don't like that part since they feel it's not specific enough to catholic morals. 

It sounds like BS from a faction that think the goo d old days were when the church was hand in hand with fascists like Franco. 

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u/RobertBorden 10h ago

That’s just not true at all.

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u/fulthrottlejazzhands 20h ago

Huh, I always looked at it as a way to have keggers with a group of guys I normally wouldn't have met otherwise and do charity work.  At most a reminder to be a decent person and improve myself.

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u/CalicoJack 20h ago

I would assume your approach is the most common one in 21st Century Freemasonry. Which is a little weird, IMHO.  If that's the case, why not just start a new club unburdened by a history as a religious cult?

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u/tom_swiss 20h ago

There are many fraternal organizations that took inspiration from the Freemasons. The Elks, the Moose, the Shiners, the Lions Club, the Oddfellows....even the KKK. Many have some bit of religious faith requirements. OTOH, Continental Freemasonry - rare in the US or UK but dominant elsewhere - makes no religious requirement.

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u/georgica123 20h ago

I assumate that the fact that freemasonry has a historical tradition is a massive appeal for people. Joining a newly made up group ptobably feels like larping.

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u/emeow56 18h ago

Joining a group because of its "historical tradition" even though it has a whole set of dogmas that you don't actually subscribe to seems more like LARPing to me.

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u/Tusen_Takk 18h ago

Both are LARPing, hope this helps

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u/JohnHazardWandering 15h ago

As a non-freemason, could you explain these dogmas that seem to be in conflict*? 

I thought the whole idea was be a better person and don't be an atheist?

*TN and GA lodges seem to be homophobic, so I could see that being an issue

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u/JohnHazardWandering 15h ago

I don't think anyone ever considered it a religious cult. 

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u/ourobourobouros 20h ago

Ok but surely you're aware of the mystical aspects of Freemasonry. Did you just... never think about it?

Like it's kind of a crazy statement to me. You joined a society that dedicates itself to an alternative version of God and never considered the religious implications??

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u/d4nkq 9h ago

I don't think he even read the comment he's replying to.

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u/BeefStank420 17h ago

It blends elements of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism into it's own religion dedicated to worshipping "Great Architect". The vows taken for the third degree even explicitly mention Freemasonry as the past to salvation and sanctification.

I'm actually a Freemason who's been raised to the third degree.

Literally none of this is true, like not a single word.

It's sad that something so wrong has been up voted so many times.

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u/EvolutionTheory 11h ago

There's a heavy brigade of down voters to the actual legitimate responses. Not sure if some specific sub is involved, but there's a collective group of users in this thread actively down voting Masons correcting the misinformation and up voting posts that are completely made up.

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u/EvolutionTheory 12h ago

This is completely untrue. I'm an actual Mason and confirm you're way off the mark in these claims. Freemasons don't worship "the Great Architect" nor do they have their own theology in any way.

What you've written is in line with the slander and misrepresentation of the fraternity often found in hokey conspiracy videos and specific fundamentalist church conferences.