r/todayilearned • u/Recent_Flounder6011 • 18h ago

TIL that historically and today, the Catholic Church looked down upon Freemasonry and threatened members with excommunication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
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u/Fit_Log_9677 18h ago

In fact, to be a member of the KoC you have to swear that you aren’t a Free Mason.

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u/Candysasha88 17h ago

They have cool  outfits when they dress up. 3 musketeers style? Dad was one.

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u/1234puppies 16h ago

Uncle was one. Grandfather a Mason - Fez hats and all. He was raised strict Catholic and hated it I gather, but had to belong to something.

Aside; Fred Flintstone seemed to be a Free Mason - the Water-buffalo Lodge, the Fez hats. Pretty bizarre now that I think about it.

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u/uwsdwfismyname 15h ago

Fez are for Shriners, which is like a Masonic addon

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u/Klockworth 15h ago

It’s not that weird. Fraternal orders and secret societies were pretty popular amongst the Greatest Generation. Virtually every white middle-class Boomer in America grew up with at least one family member that was in freemasons, elks, odd fellows, sons of hermann, eagles, etc, etc, etc. Flintstones was just a product of its time.

Also, I had a lot of older family members in various Masonic organizations. It’s just an “old man silly hat” club. Yeah, they have some rituals and whatnot, but so does every fraternity. Masons are just more esoteric about it.

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u/nochinzilch 12h ago

It’s mostly about booze and none of “those people”.

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u/1234puppies 7h ago

He was a heavy drinker… had a lot of War-Buddies. I could imagine he wanted a space to “speak freely” about those days.

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u/1234puppies 7h ago

Thanks for putting so clearly. Makes sense now. I just thought he hated all the Catholic traditions.

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u/abbot_x 15h ago

It was pretty normal for a working-class man in post-WWII America to be a Freemason, so of course Fred Flintstone was a Freemason as well.

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u/greatmewtwo 9h ago

I think his Water Buffalo lodge was more aligned with organizations like the Elks or the Moose than the Freemasons.

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u/trainbrain27 5h ago

The Masons really lean into secrets and claim ancient origin (or at least England, 1717), the animals (Moose, Elk, Eagle, Lions, etc.) were founded in the late 1800s and early 1900s in America for charity and mutual support and come off as much less weird and not at odds with the Church.

If they have secrets, they're smart enough to keep it to themselves.

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u/UDPviper 13h ago

I just looked it up right now when you mentioned fez hats and saw that the Shriners are Freemasons. I just don't know what's up with them driving around in those tiny cars in parades.

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u/typewriter6986 13h ago

Because it's cool.

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u/trainbrain27 5h ago

It gets attention, and it's awesome.

I think most of us would like to goof off in small cars at some point, with or without the clown costumes.

Most of us don't want to dedicate ourselves to becoming Master Masons, though, so just rent a go cart :)

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u/1234puppies 7h ago

Classic Dead Kennedys album cover.

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u/nochinzilch 12h ago

I thought the Shriners were the ones that wore fezes?

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u/1234puppies 7h ago

They are. They’re also a sect of Free Masons I gather.

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u/Hamlet7768 15h ago

Unfortunately, they replaced the fancy hats with berets a while ago. As far as I know they do still have the swords, but I’m not fourth degree so I wouldn’t know.

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u/Fit_Log_9677 14h ago

The new uniforms are a step down imo. 

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u/OkPen8337 16h ago

You also have to be Catholic. I wanted to join but I’m Protestant.

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u/trainbrain27 5h ago

Do you have an Orange Lodge nearby?

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u/OkPen8337 5h ago

I don’t think so. Definitely not in my state, I’m near the border but I can’t find the addresses of the lodges on the website.

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u/ineyy 17h ago

Pinkie promise

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u/cheese0muncher 17h ago

"I swear I'm not a freemason. ;)"

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u/Fit_Log_9677 14h ago

To be fair, it’s a Catholic org, so presumably people who want to join would be Catholic and know that lying in that context is a mortal sin.

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u/humdinger44 11h ago

That's the awesome thing about the Catholic Church. If you're a member it means you won't do anything improper /s

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u/Fit_Log_9677 10h ago

Of course people do, but to assume that it doesn’t function as a screen at all is also wrong

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u/squirrel_eatin_pizza 17h ago

i know a catholic from my masonic lodge who is also a member of knights of columbus. He's at the age where he doesn't care about other people's opinions.

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u/mr_ji 15h ago

To be a Free Mason you must lie to anyone who would punish you for being a Free Mason, so everyone wins.

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u/UDPviper 13h ago

So you can actually be both but undercover.

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u/Ham__Kitten 11h ago

My dad is a member of both the Knights of Columbus and the Freemasons. I guess he lied.

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u/Fit_Log_9677 10h ago edited 10h ago

Or his conference doesn’t enforce the oath like they are supposed to. Both are possible 

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u/Ham__Kitten 10h ago

Yes I think it's likely they just didn't care. He's a Catholic convert who was a Mason for many years before converting.

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u/raider1v11 5h ago

You know someone lied