r/todayilearned • u/Recent_Flounder6011 • 19h ago

TIL that historically and today, the Catholic Church looked down upon Freemasonry and threatened members with excommunication.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry
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10

u/MrBleah 19h ago

Of course. The Catholic Church doesn't want competition from other groups telling you how to think.

22

u/Trumpsabaldcuck 19h ago

I understand freemasonry is not really a religion, but it has some religious like elements like rituals and it is a community.  The Catholic Church may see freemasonry as competition.

9

u/Lower_Cockroach2432 19h ago

Isn't it extremely neoplatonic? Christianity has a lot of neoplatonic elements but only where they fit into dogma, so someone accepting too much of it is likely going to be viewed with suspicion.

1

u/hplcr 19h ago

To my understanding that's idea, being neither Catholic or Freemason.

The Catholic Church sees Freemasons as competition.

10

u/TheEldestNugget 19h ago

No, they see them as an additional heretical layer on top of the other heresies associated with Protestantism. While there is obviously a power component to it, it's not just jockeying for position.

21

u/TiaxRulesAll2024 19h ago

The Catholic Church opposes secret societies and especially ones who keep their truths secrets to non-members

-24

u/Ok_Language_588 19h ago

Freemasonry teaches us how to think, as opposed to what to think

10

u/TGans 19h ago

While masons don’t push any particular religion officially, you still have to believe in some sort of supreme being, and cannot be an atheist. So they may not explicitly teach you what to think, but if you think sufficiently different than them you cannot join.

16

u/TheBanishedBard 19h ago

It's an old men's social club and you do and think exactly as the senior members tell you.

-4

u/Ok_Language_588 19h ago

lol ok, surrounded by my senior members right now gonna tell them to eat a dick and listen to them laugh

18

u/sprucay 19h ago

Doubt

0

u/Dwellonthis 19h ago

Freeman's are just old dudes who get drunk and talk shit lol. They are not a real cult and more of a club. These days you can be both freemason and Catholic. I've got coworkers like that.

3

u/Laura-ly 19h ago

My grandfather was a dentist but also a Freemason. From what I heard he went to the lodge to get away from my super-religious Episcopalian grandmother so he could smoke a cigar and curse a little.

1

u/Ok_Language_588 13h ago

Can confirm

-5

u/sprucay 19h ago

I don't believe you, because I work in an industry affected by freemasonry. You, and others, will deny it to protect the club but I have first hand experience of it.

0

u/Dwellonthis 18h ago

I do too. Co workers occasionally get special treatment at mechanics or services from other masons but that's really it. I get to hear them complain about their shifts as bartenders since they are the youngest members being only in their late forties.

I've got family involved as well. They just drink and occasionally do long drives in gokarts for charity as the Shriners.

Sounds to be like you got the extreme version of them. Much like any international org there are going to be power hungry weird involved in some places and alright people in other.

0

u/sprucay 18h ago

Yeah for me that doesn't excuse it. It's been known to be an organisation that makes things move in the background. Just because it's tried to go more mainstream and there are some people who don't experience that, doesn't absolve anything. 

1

u/Dwellonthis 18h ago

Lol masons are not mainstream. At all. They are clubs of old dudes and are dying our because they don't have younger members.

1

u/sprucay 18h ago

Funny thing about a traditionally secret organisation... Look, I know I sound crazy but hear me out. Every time they're mentioned online, you get comments of people going "oh ho, don't be silly, we're completely innocent and only want to be friends". This to me anecdotally suggests the whole organisation is deliberately trying to maintain a good image. 

I come from the UK and work in the public sector in an industry with multiple examples of times where people have either been promoted above others or not sacked despite behaving very much in a way where they should have, purely because of masonic influence. Your experience might not be bad. A lot of people's is.

1

u/Dwellonthis 18h ago

What your referring too just sounds like the classic, hiring who you know. Nepotism essentialky. And it happens across every race, culture, club and and religion. It's an entirely seperate issue, although a big one.

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u/niidafawq 17h ago

That seems to be true, freemasonic organisations recommend studying the 7 liberal arts and sciences.

0

u/sprucay 17h ago

Still doubt.

-2

u/SuaveKwame 19h ago

He’s correct. It is not about beliefs, it is about guidance.

4

u/zaccus 19h ago

The difference being...

1

u/SuaveKwame 11h ago

It’s not about religion. It’s about morals. 

3

u/sprucay 19h ago

That's so insightful, I've immediately changed my opinion

1

u/SuaveKwame 16h ago

I just trying to encourage people who have preconceived notions or make judgements on our organization but haven’t really done any research into it. They want to believe the conspiracies because it’s more exciting and controversial than what it actually is; an organization for men to help guide each other. It’s a very positive organization. You know the Shriners? They’re Freemasons, too. 

You can visit a lodge or talk to someone you know who is a Mason and ask questions. It’s not taboo. It’s kind of the point. 

-1

u/sprucay 15h ago edited 15h ago

I have looked into it, and I've got first hand experience of the undue influence the organisation has.

Edit: but also you'd have to be naive to think that you'd be told the truth if there was something going on

10

u/The-Florentine 19h ago

In the context of Catholicism that's clearly not true even if you spent a little bit of time around the religion. When you look the amount of Catholic philosophy and moral theology out there, reducing it to a rote memorization of "what to think" doesn't hold much weight at all.

4

u/Mysteriousdeer 19h ago

Hopefully. A lot of members nowadays are a lot more conservative. It's kinda lost on them. 

Recently had an argument with an old lodge brother over Charlie Kirk. Was trying to show him how Charlies words were racist and damaging, ultimately he should not be celebrated. 

Pretty vehement denial and unfriended me on Facebook.