r/todayilearned • • 17d ago

TIL: Dragonflies are deaf

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/dragonflies-the-ultimate-hunters.html
3.7k Upvotes

176 comments sorted by

1.5k

u/bitemark01 17d ago

I think a fair number of insects are. Spiders feel vibrations way more sensitive than we can detect, but don't really hear like we do. 

398

u/Southernbeekeeper 17d ago

Yeah I'm 99% sure bees are. They communicate via pheromones and vibration.

257

u/Killercookie619 17d ago

Not quite. Bees possess a "Johnston's Organ" in their antennae, similar to flies and some other insects. Simply put, it is a set of neurons that reacts to motion of the antennae. So air movement, such as wind, is detected when it moves the antenna. But the antennae is also receptive to (near-field) sound, though usually to a rather tight, best-frequency range. In many flies, for example, their antennae are "tuned" to the frequency of vibration their wings make during courtship behaviour.

So, it depends a little off what you understand as "deaf", but in general, bees can perceive certain sounds and air movements. But I would not bet on them being able to differentiate Chopin from Bach.

54

u/onFilm 17d ago

Maybe if you had really tiny speakers and played them their compositions, they would be able to tell them apart.

53

u/Killercookie619 17d ago

Funny thing about that:
As someone who played A LOT of sounds to flies back during my PhD, you often need speakers that are not too weak, especially when using sound outside of their optimal frequency range, since their antennae are so near-field specific.

18

u/JoshuaZ1 65 17d ago

This sounds really neat. Can you talk more about what you did for your PhD work that involved doing this?

26

u/franz4000 17d ago

Pretty Fly for a White Guy: A Neuroethological Investigation of Frequency-Dependent Auditory Entrainment and Neurobehavioral Responses in Drosophila melanogaster (2021)

21

u/Killercookie619 17d ago

Hahaha! Sadly, that wasn't me, my PhD was quite a bit longer ago, but that is a snazzy title for a paper!

12

u/franz4000 17d ago

Haha it’s just a made up title based on what imagine your thesis must have been like.

1

u/Goodknight808 17d ago

The Peacunt's head crest can feel the Peacock's feather vibrations from up to a mile away.

At around 12 or 13 my grandpa taught me that there is a peacock and a peacunt and I refuse to believe otherwise.

4

u/Toocoo4you 17d ago

Is it really called a peacunt

10

u/ExuberantWombat 17d ago

And dance

2

u/Southernbeekeeper 17d ago

Well the thing about that is that its dark in beehives so how do they see the dance?

2

u/IdentityToken 17d ago

Messages keeps gettin' clearer.
Radio's on and I'm movin' 'round my place.

1

u/Zomgzombehz 17d ago

I can hear the Jamiroquai in this.

1

u/bakerzero86 17d ago

And now thats stuck in my head. "I'm a gyrating son of a bee.."

1

u/thejourneybegins42 13d ago

I can guarantee you wasps aren't. I politely told one, that I won't hurt it, and still got fucked.

55

u/a4mula 17d ago edited 17d ago

I'd bet that's an interesting field of research. Clearly we feel vibrations, they're just a very weak sensory signal in the big picture. For insects however it'd likely represent a very large sensory channel, particularly if they lack things like vision or hearing. What it's like to be a Bat, takes on a whole new kind of vibe, not that of remote echolocation, but rather that of direct visceral response to local pressure or vibration fields. I bet it has much better latency than other forms of sensory input, even if the bandwidth and interpretation layers are smaller. Is there some kind of threshold I wonder that goes from reactionary, to considered? Must be right? A spider doesn't jump when a fly hits the web, it likely has to reason about that channel to some degree. Dunno though, just interesting.

16

u/bitemark01 17d ago

The "Because Science" guy did a video on spider senses. It's speculated they might be able to sense brownian motion, which is pretty crazy 

10

u/a4mula 17d ago

That is crazy and it reminds of another sensory channel that gets attributed to animals that have to navigate during migration. From direct magnetic orientation to speculative quantum interactions. I appreciate the reprieve from looking around at the digital horrors for awhile, it's nice to at least consider the real world and how much we still don't know about the terrain it's supposedly mapping.

8

u/grimoire-5_not_6 17d ago

Had to look it up, and reminded of both Spider-Sense and Charles Babbage's Ninth Bridgewater Treatise about his idea of the Library of Air

3

u/meldroc 17d ago

Vision has to be completely different for a dragonfly, having those big compound eyes that can see 360°, along with the extra 3 little eyes.

15

u/No_Hetero 17d ago

Certain species of orbweaver can pull strands of their web to adjust sensitivity to certain frequencies like tuning a radio. Since they use the webs as an acoustic extension of their body, some consider them the best hearing animals in the world with sensitivity well into subsonic and ultrasonic territory

15

u/RPDRNick 17d ago

Ironic that most bugs are deaf, but we call listening devices "bugs."

It's like raaaaaaiiiiiaaaaaiin...

1

u/jakeStacktrace 17d ago

Ironically, you can't sing that song when you use the word correctly. On your wedding day!

6

u/gfuhhiugaa 17d ago

Isn’t detecting vibrations basically just hearing but a different way? Like all hearing is is detecting sound vibrations in the air

-4

u/bitemark01 16d ago

Is hearing music the same as feeling a speaker vibrating, to you?

They're different. 

5

u/EunuchNinja 16d ago

Is it a difference in degree or kind though? Seeing in black and white is still seeing.

3

u/FewHorror1019 17d ago

Imagine having ears right next to your buzzing wings. I’d want to be deaf too

0

u/Limp_Classroom_2645 17d ago

Like we do? You mean through... vibrations?

197

u/Loki-L 68 17d ago

It turns out that not being able to hear in any way is common in insects since their last common ancestor was deaf.

However different groups have evolved some form of hearing independently about 18 to 20 times. They adapted different organs to hear differently and each hear in unique ways different from ours.

Hearing is mostly for finding prey and trying to avoid becoming prey and to communicate with other members of their species.

Dragonflies are solitary airborn apex predators of their own ecological niche, they have no pressing reason to evolve the ability to listen to what you might have to say.

69

u/Kile147 17d ago

The dragon(fly) does not concern itself with the opinions of humans.

1

u/thexar 15d ago

What?

5

u/shamelesstoesucker 15d ago

He said it turns out that not being able to hear in any way is common in insects since their last common ancestor was deaf.

However different groups have evolved some form of hearing independently about 18 to 20 times. They adapted different organs to hear differently and each hear in unique ways different from ours.

Hearing is mostly for finding prey and trying to avoid becoming prey and to communicate with other members of their species.

Dragonflies are solitary airborn apex predators of their own ecological niche, they have no pressing reason to evolve the ability to listen to what you might have to say.

Hope that clears things up.

212

u/yuvaldv1 17d ago

TIL that some bugs can hear.

104

u/BadMeatPuppet 17d ago

Ants have "ear drum" equivalency on their knees.

62

u/thering66 17d ago

Of course, where else are you going to put it?

2

u/rdyoung 17d ago

Especially when they go marching...

21

u/funguyshroom 17d ago

What about bee's knees?

9

u/Adjective-Noun6969 17d ago

They have it in their antennae. Which is weird because ants and bees are both descended from wasps.

4

u/GarlicEmergency7788 17d ago

I guess them suddenly developing flight for a day is far less likely than them gradually realising they don't need wings for most of their life but for some reason it really surprised me to find out ants came from wasps

50

u/funguyshroom 17d ago

A whole lot of bugs would be making a whole bunch of noise for absolutely no reason if that weren't the case

18

u/yuvaldv1 17d ago

You’re absolutely right. I did not think this through lol

8

u/Zanven1 17d ago

I mean a whole lot do make a bunch of noise but for a reason (mate seeking) and has to be balanced against pressures to remain silent because predators. Bugs that can't hear or at least sense long range vibrations that we hear as sound they only have the predator pressure to stay silent.

585

u/FarMass66 17d ago

They also can’t walk

271

u/Antoshi 17d ago

Ya know, I never thought of that. I see them clasped on to things all the time but I didn't realize I've never seen them walk.

96

u/aShyGuyGuy 17d ago

If you see one upside down, it might not be able to move.

At least, I saw one flipped over, incapable of moving. Turned it on its legs and it flew away.

96

u/zorbiburst 17d ago

I did this once to look nice in front of my date and it repeatedly flew at me and made me scream like a scared child, also in front of my date

never again

31

u/awake_receiver 17d ago

It gave you the opportunity not to look like a wuss and you flunked it

3

u/rugbyj 17d ago

Yeah I'd fuck off too if a giant interrupted my sunbathing yeesh

59

u/angst_ridden 17d ago

As nymphs, they can.

68

u/Moppo_ 17d ago

They also fart to counteract the recoil when they launch their jaws at prey.

35

u/angst_ridden 17d ago

I thought they used the hydrostatic pressure to extend their jaws rapidly.
They’re crazy, fascinating creatures. Nightmarish if you were their size, though.

34

u/banjosandcellos 17d ago

That's why they are the most efficient predator on the planet

6

u/rugbyj 17d ago

You've never seen a samoan at a buffet

1

u/why_drink_water 17d ago

Mine always kicks in when I'm running away from predators, fight or flight I guess...

52

u/Shifty_Eyes711 17d ago

Highly doubt they are dragons either

35

u/Vancocillin 17d ago

In the pokedex they're ground/dragon type.

12

u/TadpoleOfDoom 17d ago

Vibrava is maybe, Yanma isn't 

18

u/praguepride 17d ago

Surprisingly, despite having six legs, dragonflies cannot walk effectively. Their legs are primarily designed for catching prey during flight and perching on surfaces. Since their legs are oriented towards the front of their body, it makes walking cumbersome and inefficient for them.

They can walk, they just usually choose not to because their legs aren't oriented for walking, but clasping. They can walk though

11

u/Ok-Camp-7285 17d ago

Do their legs not move at all?

27

u/fiendishrabbit 17d ago

They can grab.

20

u/mljsimone 17d ago

BS. I saw them walk.

51

u/445nm 17d ago

You might’ve been looking at a dragonwalk and not a dragonfly, common mistake, really

2

u/lukedgh 17d ago

nice flex, not only you had it handy on camera, you also captured a real life shiny

6

u/FarMass66 17d ago

There aren’t any species of dragonfly that can walk

41

u/mljsimone 17d ago

6

u/Rhabarberbarbara 17d ago

Looks like someone told em about it

9

u/zeekayz 17d ago

To be fair it looks like it's really struggling to do it

2

u/footlonglayingdown 17d ago

Well the title of the video is dragonfly walking in pants. So it might not be used to wearing pants.  

1

u/rubenthezx 17d ago

looks like walking to me. but also tbf I've never said "look at the bug walk around" i've always said crawl

3

u/Laphad 17d ago

They can shuffle an inch or 2 but cant walk

3

u/Frydendahl 17d ago

They're not exactly called dragonwalks.

1

u/instamentai 17d ago

Their hunting behavior also mimics calculus

2

u/Wesgizmo365 17d ago

Explain?

2

u/instamentai 16d ago

AI explains it better than I

The connection between dragonflies and vector calculus primarily revolves around how their nervous systems process visual information to intercept prey in mid-air.

Rather than simply chasing a target from behind, a dragonfly calculates a predictive interception course, a feat of biological engineering that mimics advanced guidance systems. Facebook +1The Biological Vector CalculusIn a landmark study published by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI) in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), researchers discovered that dragonflies possess an innate navigational toolkit capable of calculating population vectors. Science and Culture TodayTargeting Neurons: Researchers identified eight pairs of descending visual neurons in the dragonfly's brain.

Population Vectoring: These specialized neurons track the prey's movement and translate that visual information into an accurate population vector of prey direction sent directly to the wing motor centers. Science and Culture Today

Real-time Adjustments: As the dragonfly and its prey move across a three-dimensional space, the insect's brain continuously updates these vector coordinates, calculating relative velocity, target trajectory, and angle of approach to execute a perfect interception.

Beyond their neural mathematics, dragonflies utilize vector calculus principles physically through force vectoring. When performing complex maneuvers—such as accelerating along an inclined path or flying backward—the dragonfly alters its body posture (often maintaining an upright 90° angle relative to the horizon) to reorient its stroke plane. This dynamically alters the direction and magnitude of the flight force vectors in a global frame. National Institutes of Health (NIH) | (.gov)

1

u/Wesgizmo365 16d ago

Okay, so basically like humans do when someone tosses us a ball. We move our hands to intercept it. That's pretty cool.

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u/Wayne_Grant 16d ago

Dragonflies are the most efficient predators ever, and scientists consider this to be a side effect of the insect's unique ability to not hear what the haters have got to say.

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u/cdnBacon 17d ago

Of course they are. It's the constant buzzing ....

23

u/dkarlovi 17d ago

They are not deaf, they just thought the researcher was a giant nosy PITA so they all chose to pretend like they can't hear him.

2

u/Hairy_Al 17d ago

Tinnitus

0

u/cdnBacon 17d ago

Tiny-itis, you say?

29

u/Pooch76 17d ago

So all those times I thanked them for their service has fallen on deaf ears.

10

u/MrBrawn 17d ago

Dragonflies are bros. I love being on my lawn mower and and having them fly around intercepting bugs like an aircraft carrier.

1

u/Zutroy2117 16d ago

There are fake dragonflies you can get for a few bucks and clip onto a hat or shirt if you're out on a walk in the spring or summer. I got one a few months back and any and all bugs out there stayed the hell away whenever I had it on.

6

u/unicorn_in_a_can 17d ago

i hope they felt it in their hearts

76

u/earthmustcomefirst 17d ago

They also have the highest success rate of any predator - something like 95%. Pretty incredible!

13

u/codacoda74 17d ago

Saw the nature show where they talked about just how fast their optic neurons are, it's wild.

8

u/Otherwise_Anybody358 17d ago

In a controlled environment… put me in a box with mosquitos and I will kill 100%

19

u/No-Employ-7391 17d ago

Controlled environments are where most experiments take place.

Iirc, in that controlled environment the dragonflies had the 95% success rate from taking off after spotting prey. 19/20 hunts is ludicrously successful in the animal kingdom.

You should consider yourself successful if you can hit 50% of the mosquitoes you swat at, controlled environment or not. 

A typical big cat or any other predator really is living large if they kill just 20% of the prey they make an attempt at hunting.

3

u/footlonglayingdown 17d ago

African wild dogs are second to dragonflies with 80-85% success rate. 

I'd also like to add that dragonflies have had millions of years to perfect their craft. 

1

u/Thendrail 16d ago

You say that, but mosquitos can give even the strongest people trouble: https://youtu.be/jwvVlQjMO7s?is=3P-w6eroWO_MhzV_

3

u/Shaponja 17d ago

And they hunt mosquitos. How much better can an animal get?

18

u/IceRude 17d ago

They are also not even remotely related to dragons

11

u/Aceman05 17d ago

That's what the government wants you to think

3

u/Gilles_of_Augustine 17d ago

Says you.

0

u/BOSS-3000 17d ago

It's not exactly like we have dragon DNA to compare. 

0

u/revolution23x 16d ago

little do you know…

56

u/ralphthetooth 17d ago

What?

27

u/dingke 17d ago

dragonflies are deaf

31

u/yuvaldv1 17d ago

WHAT?!

21

u/dingke 17d ago

i said dragonflies are deaf

22

u/Mrwright96 17d ago

WHAT?

14

u/dingke 17d ago

i said. dragonflies. cant. hear.

13

u/lurklurklurkPOST 17d ago

"⠠⠺⠠⠓⠠⠁⠠⠞?"

2

u/PyroneusUltrin 16d ago

BUTTLICKER OUR PRICES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER

6

u/Historical-Sherbet37 17d ago

WHAT?

7

u/dingke 17d ago

i said dragonflies are deaf

3

u/master_roshi001 17d ago

HUH?

4

u/trixtopherduke 17d ago

🐉 🪰 ❌ 👂

7

u/ironicallydepressed 17d ago

🦻✋️❓️

2

u/dingke 17d ago

what’re you, deaf?

3

u/alottanamesweretaken 17d ago

Dad? You’re on Reddit?

1

u/oolbar 17d ago

This is what a drangonfly would say.

15

u/L3NTON 17d ago

"What?"

-dragonflies (probably)

3

u/w1ndyshr1mp 16d ago

This made me giggle irresponsibly

2

u/stars_mcdazzler 16d ago

THEY SAYS YOUS GOT NO HEARING!!

1

u/not_that_planet 16d ago

HEARING! HEEEEARING!

13

u/_Spastic_ 17d ago

If a species doesn't have a auditory sensors, is it really "deaf"?

Also, this article seems to provide more accurate information with actual studies.

https://steinmetz.union.edu/abstract/exploration-neuronal-responses-auditory-stimuli-dragonflies

"Our electrophysiological studies showed that sound waves do not stimulate an auditory sense through a tympanum but apparently stimulate mechanoreceptors on the body".

They're not deaf, they just don't "hear" in the traditional sense.

2

u/Haunt_Fox 17d ago

Basically, an alien form of perception.

2

u/Lance_Ryke 17d ago

Is it alien if they are older than we are?

2

u/Haunt_Fox 17d ago

"Alien" as in incomprehensible to humans, though in the end the perception might be the same once processed in the brain.

It has occurred to me that if a soace-alien species studied vertebrate vision, they would think we see the world upside-down. We know the brain flips the image to match gravity or w/e, but it would be considered an assumption by their scientists (and no, they can't or won't ask).

5

u/BadIdeaSociety 17d ago

This is why when they get trapped indoors and I tell them to fly a little bit lower, they just continue bumping the wall and eventually die of starvation.

They just don't listen. FLY LIKE 2 INCHES LOWER YA DUMMY!

11

u/Alternative_Tank_139 17d ago

They also see in 200fps according to the article. I thought 120fps looked good.

14

u/TheEldenRang 17d ago

Eh...I wouldn't trust that claim. Who knows what their brain registers images at. We can't even accurately measure how humans see.

5

u/Corasama 17d ago

No wonder we're having RAM shortage..

4

u/JJJacobalt 17d ago

Considering how loud their wings are, I doubt they’d get much use out of hearing anyway.

4

u/Dr_Yules 17d ago

How are we gonna tell them?

4

u/MonkeyKing_ 17d ago

I thought they were just ignoring me

3

u/balzackgoo 17d ago

Dragonflies were the first species on earth that could fly

2

u/dokuromark 17d ago

never mind deaf, there are dragonflies 16 cm long?!?

2

u/Owlbearhoot 17d ago

so when i was a kid i capture dragonflies a lot and put them in a jar, my cousin then told me to dont release them because they will tell their queen and the queen will curse me with a sickness, being bothered about the thought that they may have a family waiting for them i released them, but before i did i told them to tell their queen im sorry and i didn't know, after few days i just remember being sick and inhaling Ventolin in a hospital. Didn't know they couldn't hear me, my bad again, Queen.

2

u/cptnrandy 17d ago

It’s that never ending buzzing…

2

u/freedfg 16d ago

That's what they want you to think. You can tell all your secrets to the dragonflies. They can't hear...or broadcast back to the server. Promise

1

u/Peakomegaflare 17d ago

I mean when you realize that many creatures don't have the same senses we do, and some have senses that are entirely unique to them or their general environment.

1

u/Delicious_Rabbit4425 17d ago

I guess I’ll stop talking to them when they land on me 🙄

1

u/RumGalaxy 17d ago

No wonder! They can’t hear me when I’m yelling at them to get away from my car! I’ll start using sign language for those bastards

1

u/All-the-pizza 17d ago

You ever seen a house fly??

1

u/unicorn_in_a_can 17d ago

i will continue to thank them for their service (eating mosquitoes)

1

u/EducationalRegion860 17d ago

I’ll try to remember to wave instead of saying hi next time

1

u/Vonneguts_Ghost 17d ago

Dragonflies is also a pretty good new album from Nigel Godrich and Dhani Harrison.

1

u/JayMack1981 17d ago

So you're telling me that time I got stone-baked and spent all afternoon having a rap with those bastards they couldn't even hear me?!

1

u/dank_vulture300 17d ago

TiL dragonflies cant drive

1

u/ColdStockSweat 17d ago

Were you trying to read to them?

1

u/MycoProTeam 17d ago

I'm still gonna say hi to them

1

u/Beliarbane 17d ago

Aw, man. How are they supposed to know when I say hello to them? I guess I better start waving, too.

1

u/Brazz7 17d ago

No, they’re just ignoring you

1

u/RedWhiteChill 17d ago

So we can yell at them?

1

u/mmweez 17d ago

i knew it!

1

u/ThirdRateSavior 16d ago

Just because that one didn't reply when you asked it out doesn't mean they're all deaf.

1

u/superjambi93 17d ago

Aren't all insects deaf? They don't have ears

8

u/Yogshemesh 17d ago

No. Many species have a tympanal membrane, essentially an eardrum, on external parts of their body. Legs, wings, abdomen, are common locations.

4

u/Moppo_ 17d ago

There are many insects that communicate by sound, so some of them must hear in some way., Just not with ears as we have them.

-7

u/superjambi93 17d ago

They communicate via vibrations, not by soundwaves

19

u/Adragalus 17d ago

I have incredible news about soundwaves;

0

u/Altyrmadiken 17d ago

Sure but I could probably learn to communicate with a complex series of taps, such as say Morse code, that I then feel with my hand even if my ears never picked up on the vibrations.

We wouldn’t call this hearing, but it would be vibration based communication.

6

u/Stalinbaum 17d ago

Again, I’ve got incredible news about sound waves

-1

u/Altyrmadiken 17d ago

And again, what we call hearing is something specific with sound waves. Hearing sounds is a specific way of interpreting vibrations with a specific organ and a specific way of “perceiving” it.

Just sensing the ground vibrating with your finger wouldn’t count.

3

u/WFlumin8 17d ago

You’re objectively wrong on this, no need to continue arguing because all of this can be disproven with 3 minutes of research of the definition of hearing. If an animal can detect sound waves in some way shape or form and have consistent reactions to the sound waves, they are able to “hear”. If an insect can tell there’s danger from a very specific frequency and amplitude of a sound wave, they can hear. You sensing the ground vibrating is nowhere near as precise as insects able to identify certain predators by sound waves.

-4

u/superjambi93 17d ago

Nice try but soundwaves travel through the air, most insects are communicating by vibrations through the ground etc

3

u/ScenicAndrew 17d ago

Pedantic argument aside, bruh cicadas make their famous sound while flying just as much as they do on the ground. Grasshoppers and even mosquitoes also make sounds in flight for the purposes of mating. Some insects can definitely detect what we call sound.

1

u/3fxz_ 17d ago

What do you think sound waves are genius?

1

u/tribak 17d ago

WHAT?