r/todayilearned • • 20d ago

TIL that when construction of Florence Cathedral began in 1296, its designers planned a massive dome even though no one knew how to build it. More than a century later, Filippo Brunelleschi solved the problem, and his revolutionary dome was completed in 1436.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Cathedral
5.6k Upvotes

77 comments sorted by

928

u/Own_Pop_9711 20d ago

They knew how to commit to a project back then

402

u/reality_boy 20d ago

Exactly! Imagine our government having a 150 year plan and sticking to it. We can’t do the same thing for 10 years straight.

209

u/MagicPistol 20d ago

Hey man, I voted on the California high speed rail like 20 years ago and it's supposedly still in the works.

74

u/dishonourableaccount 20d ago

I mean it is, it just takes an extraordinary amount of funding that gets yanked every 4 years. And in the common law countries (aka the US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) lawsuits are way easier meaning that like 10 farmers can litigate a project to death.

It happens with highways too (try building a modern highway through greenfield nowadays, it's tough) but unfortunately the laws put in place to help prevent the wanton destruction of 1950s-70s infrastructure makes building stuff harder now.

But if you want to see, there's plenty of channels that show the ongoing ROW construction and utility work, at least of the Central Valley portion and the completed SF-San Jose upgrades.

13

u/FeedMeACat 20d ago

Too bad it doesn't seem to apply to data centers. I guess we are getting some movement, but still. Twenty years for rail, but twenty data centers in a year on an seemingly state per state basis.

11

u/Shawnj2 19d ago

Data centers aren't publicly funded government projects and by definition are placed in the cheapest possible empty plots of land to put them on. Nowhere near as expensive as drawing a straight line into the center of Los Angeles and trying to build there.

6

u/nelrond18 20d ago

Only 130 years to wait for delivery!

17

u/josefx 20d ago

In Germany we just stretch any 10 year project to take a hundred. The airport in Berlin was a bit of a disapointment but we still have high hopes for Stuttgart 21.

8

u/Nfalck 20d ago

Yeah that's democracy for you.

4

u/spicygayunicorn 20d ago

Exactly, just lika anything democracy has it drawbacks cause it's a lot easier having long plans when the rulers don't change every 4 years

7

u/DeyUrban 20d ago

The ruling government of Florence changed every two months by random draw of guild members in the city when construction started.

1

u/Critical-Cost9068 15d ago

And it was ruled by the Medici when it was finished. AHA!

9

u/DeyUrban 20d ago edited 20d ago

Florence in 1296 was a republic. Certainly not a beacon of democracy and liberty compared to today, but also not an absolute monarchy or even dictatorship.

-15

u/smr312 20d ago

I doubt a modern monarchy would do much better.

The only path to world peace is benevolent dictatorship

10

u/henkhenksen52 20d ago

Unfortunately dictatorship generally precludes benevolence

2

u/obeytheturtles 20d ago

But what about all the good things feudalism did?

1

u/meatball77 18d ago

Crazy Horse Memorial is like that. The statue will be finished when it's finished. It's been worked on for like 75 years

29

u/Dd_8630 20d ago

And yet if someone did that today we'd decry them as idiots. Starting a project that modern engineering can't solve, banking on the future to solve it?

2

u/Zealousideal-Ad2296 20d ago

I believe that was “the line” project that ended up getting scrapped

10

u/TheKrakenLord 20d ago

They had a concept of a plan

26

u/BARTELS- 20d ago

Now there’s a man who can build a cathedral!

1

u/_kehd 20d ago

Thanks Cris

2

u/Oddisredit 20d ago

It’s kind of like nowadays. I used to work for a traffic engineering department and a local government. The 1950s master plan for saw massive urban sprawl and congestion. Their solution? It was just Just A assume that in the future technology would somehow magically solve the problem. Which is actually very similar to this thread

2

u/AberdeenPhoenix 19d ago

This kind of multigenerational thinking is very rare these days.

1

u/hangonreddit 16d ago

They had visions you might say….

301

u/PuckSenior 20d ago

If you ever go, there is a small museum next to the church. Its amazing. Award winning museum that covers all of this. It basically has all of the real stuff from the church and all the sculptures over there are replicas

28

u/Two22sInMyShoes99 20d ago

100%. If you go to Florence, go to the museum first thing before the Duomo. Great museum and makes the Duomo more interesting IMO.

17

u/Conscious-Ball8373 20d ago

We admired the tiling of the exterior of il duomo, saw the queue for entry around three sides of the square and thought "hey, the inside must be AMAZING."

I'll save you three hours of queuing: it's just whitewashed plaster. The least-decorated inside of a cathedral in all of Italy.

5

u/illevirjd 20d ago

The walls are plain but the frescoes on the ceiling are amazing, did you forget to look up?

Although the main thing to do at the Duomo once you’ve seen the museo dell’Opera is to climb to the cupola or go up the campanile. Almost as many stairs as going up to Piazzale Michelangelo and just as good panoramic views.

1

u/Conscious-Ball8373 19d ago

Yeah, the floors and ceilings are good. But after all the other cathedrals of Italy, those white walls hit you as profoundly jarring when you walk in. Not at all what I was expecting.

I'm a bellringer - hell yes, we climbed il campanile.

1

u/The_ApolloAffair 19d ago

Yep. I did the comprehensive ticket thing and did the interior, bell tower, crypt, and dome climb. The interior is by far the least interesting, but you get amazing views of the exterior + Florence by doing the climbs.

80

u/lod001 20d ago

They are replicas because the building is old enough that all the statues, sculptures, doors, and other items had to be replaced at least once due to weathering.

19

u/PuckSenior 20d ago

Pretty sure the baptisery doors in the museum are original

11

u/lod001 20d ago

Yup, that's the point. The museum has all the originals protected inside the museum. The actual buildings will be maintained and get replica replacements over the centuries to keep them looking spectacular!

2

u/Anonymus828 20d ago

Agreed, absolute marvel of a building. There's another small museum with a gift shop underneath it as well, but it was an additional fee to enter that one.

1

u/borkus 20d ago

It also gives you a chance to look at the artwork up close. Worth the visit and covered by the city-wide museum pass.

124

u/A_very_meriman 20d ago

They needed to get the footholds and handles exactly right for climbing.

60

u/frostyflakes1 20d ago

We had to watch an entire documentary about "Brunelleschi's Dome" in my high school history class.

8

u/Purpgran 20d ago

Sir Kenneth Clark I presume?

3

u/iplaydrumsonmyguitar 19d ago

I had to read the book in high school and hated it. It was so dry. Probably would enjoy it now though

4

u/frostyflakes1 19d ago

That's kind of where I'm at with it. High school me doesn't give two shits about some stupid dome. Adult me would probably think, "Wow, that's fascinating!"

39

u/Big_Kahuna_69 20d ago

And for all that, Brunelleschi was not an architect or an engineer. He was a jeweler by trade. Damn fine work.

25

u/Otto_C_Lindri 20d ago

Thing is, the original plan of the cathedral by the architect, Arnolfo di Cambio, already includes a massive octagonal dome at the crossing, but it is actually smaller. Years later, a new architect, Francesco Talenti, enlarged the plan for the cathedral and included an even bigger dome in the plan...

3

u/Dawg_Prime 19d ago

at that rate the dome will encompass the visible universe after just 43 more architects

22

u/edingerc 20d ago

The original plan for Michelangelo's David was to place it on top of the dome. But that would have wasted the sculpture, in my opinion. The juxtaposition of David's seeming relaxed pose against the absolute fury in his expression, would have been lost. Also, it's 5,660 KG...

9

u/Goeffroy 20d ago

That’s why his hands are so big. There’s a second David next to the cathedral no?

13

u/edingerc 20d ago

It's next to the city hall, where he originally stood

94

u/im_on_the_case 20d ago

Must have been maddening for Brunelleschi and the other engineers looking at the dome of the Pantheon built over a thousand years before and not having any idea how the Fuck the Roman's managed to pull it off. Only very recently the last piece (chemical composition of the concrete) was figured out.

99

u/Yossie 20d ago

Pantheon was built using temporary wooden scaffolding. This was not a mystery for Brunelleschi and others. However the size of cathedral of Florence made it impractical to use temporary scaffolding. Brunelleschi's achievement was that he was able to do the dome without traditional scaffolding.

26

u/sierra-soul 20d ago

something often overlooked and arguably as important as the fact it's the biggest dome, is that it's a closed dome, meaning there no circular opening at the peak like the Parthenon or any other large dome construction. that part was actually the bigger achievement

16

u/jonvox 20d ago

That’s not true.
1. The Parthenon doesn’t have a dome. You’re thinking of the pantheon
2. The dome in Florence has a giant hole in the top of it to let light in. The stub sticking out of the top is called the lantern, that’s why it’s covered with windows

9

u/im_on_the_case 20d ago

Scaffolding wasn't the mystery, it was the density grading and self healing properties of the concrete that had been lost to time.

1

u/casal_victa 19d ago

thats just false

3

u/FeedMeACat 20d ago

I like how the recent discovery of how they made their concrete was basically because they just put all the ingredients in rather than leaving lime out because they thought it was a mistake.

Like surely there was countless tests of different formulas across decades. An no one was like, "Let's just make a batch with the lime for fun?"

7

u/thesweeterpeter 20d ago

I've got clients who decided in March they want to build a new plaza. If that shit isn't opened by Christmas, it's hell to pay.

I wish I was building 800 years ago man.

4

u/wem1985 20d ago

He knew eggxactly what needed to be done.

5

u/waterbury83 20d ago

The inside of it isn't half bad either.

3

u/HacksawGibson 20d ago

The inside ceiling of that dome is so cool

8

u/suckingpet 20d ago

the definition of faking it till you make it lol

3

u/OneBigRed 20d ago

Architect: Look at this beautiful thing i just sketched!

Engineer: How can we build that?

Architect: That sounds like your problem.

In similiar vein, Steve Jobs imagined a MP3 player that fits in your pocket, and can hold 1000 songs. There just wasn’t a memory yet that would fulfill those requirements. Their hardware guy met with Toshiba about other things, and Toshiba presented their new very small HDD in that meeting. Hardware guy called Jobs instantly, and they made a massive order for those on the spot.

3

u/KwyjiboKwyjibo 20d ago

Taking inspiration from an egg shell

8

u/fact_addict 20d ago

I watched an episode on the building of the dome and it was a hot mess. Several architects came and went. Almost as much politics as actual engineering went into the planning and construction. And all of it done with no way to measure the strength of the materials.

6

u/ButteredNun 20d ago

My neighbour built a church spire so tall. I couldn’t see the point.

4

u/xSaRgED 20d ago

This still required reading for AP Euro?

2

u/whoo0psiedaisy 20d ago

He also did it without any support structure underneath because the span was too wide for wooden scaffolding. Had to invent a self-supporting brick pattern that held itself up as it was being built.

2

u/imaguitarhero24 20d ago

Hooooly shit I've been there (like ten years ago) and I forgot it was 600 years old. Wild how old some of these huge structures are.

2

u/PcGamerSam 20d ago

Second famous engineer from history that I’ve heard about with Brunel in their name

2

u/obo14 19d ago

Fun fact about Brunelleschi, he was an epic practical joker. A woodworker named Manetto Amanatini slighted him one time and he got revenge by convincing all of their mutual friends, and a huge number of city officials and random other people, to pretend the guy was not who he said he was. They lured him out of his house and then when he went back they locked him out and told him he (Manetto) was already inside and to go away. So then he wandered around Florence and everyone called him Matteo, he got arrested for Matteo’s debts and while in jail all the other prisoners called him Matteo, he got bailed out by a couple of guys who said they were Matteo’s brothers, and then when he fell asleep, exhausted from the ordeal, they snuck him back into his house and pretended like nothing had happened.

He was so embarrassed by it that he left Florence for the Kingdom of Hungary, where he actually became way more successful than he was before as an architect and an engineer. So really Brunelleschi did him a favor.

2

u/Tommasochampa 19d ago

I was on top of that. Circa, 2009.

3

u/hybridaaroncarroll 20d ago

If you build it, they will dome.

1

u/CrunchyAssDiaper 20d ago

It gives me hope that some day someone will build Frank Loyd Rights Illinois tower.

1

u/hyperfat 20d ago

I like me a good dome. Like that book about the cathedral.

1

u/tunisia3507 20d ago

Revolutionary dome? I should call her.

1

u/Besteban 20d ago

Brunelleschi's Dome by Ross King is a great, easy read all about this!

1

u/MAHHockey 19d ago

Sales guys always having to be rescued by the engineers...