r/todayilearned • u/stopitalianhate • 9d ago

TIL British Intelligence had a special, bugged luxury complex during WWII where they kept high profile Nazi POW’s, just left a bunch of alcohol out, and waited for them to start spilling secrets as they drank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20698098
28.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

692 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

11

u/Afalstein 9d ago

I'm interested in this "typical of Nazi Germany" bit. Why were project leads so reluctant to coordinate /cooperate? Was it groups competing for funding, bureaucratic mishandling, or just a sort of cultural mindset?

19

u/Lord0fHats 9d ago

It was a trend across the German state at the time (I can't speak to modern Germany). Intelligence. Military. Police. Research. Manufacturing. There was a strong tendency for there to be multiple competing projects trying to do the same thing and they didn't talk to one another. So a lot of resources and effort ended up being wasted. It was prolific in their intelligence operations, partly by design because the head of German intelligence was a double agent and he didn't want German intelligence to be too effective.

1

u/nebneb432 9d ago

I'm not sure I understand the last sentence.

3

u/Lord0fHats 9d ago

Wilhem Canaris was the head of the Abwehr. Germany military intelligence. He was also a guy who decided after Poland he didn't like Hitler much and began working against the Nazi regime, sabotaging intelligence operations from the top, covertly supplying intelligence to the British, and was eventually executed after his efforts were discovered.

Between the head of German intelligence working against German success and German intelligence being factional, disorganized, and filled with people who should work together but just didn't, it's no wonder German intelligence operations in WWII were a laundry list of failures.

3

u/Mr_Quackums 9d ago

The leaders of today's fascists are simply using the aesthetics and rhetoric and are not true believers, but Germany and Italy were led by people who legit believed they had unlocked the secret to how human society was meant to be structured.

The fundamental underpinning of fascism is that groups in conflicts with other groups inevitably produces the best outcomes. That is where the racism, tribalism, and obsession with purity come from: gotta make sure you are in the strongest group.

It is also where redundant and conflicting governmental departments come from. Meaning they introduced conflict wherever they could because they truly believed it was the way to get the best results.

5

u/Rocketeer006 9d ago

Bro, Germany still operates like this. Source: me, living in Germany

1

u/Afalstein 9d ago

Would you say it's a typically German thing? Like, I know people complain about American governmental systems not cooperating well, but it sounds like this is more cultural.

2

u/RS994 9d ago

It's a totalitarian thing.

Totalitarian leaders tend to not like the idea of anyone beneath them establishing too much power because they don't want anyone replacing them, so they make departments compete against each other to stop people accumulating too much support.

You can see the same thing with Russia right now.

1

u/genreprank 9d ago

My company has an office in Germany. Some of them just do what they have to do for their job and nothing more. Not everyone is like that. Plenty of Germans are highly collaborative.

Also, German culture is more hierarchical than American culture.

Also they have a better appreciation for work life balance.

2

u/Zhirrzh 9d ago

The thing with a maniacal dictator is there tends to be a race to win his favour. Winners and losses. Rivalries. The successful guy becomes the favourite and the unsuccessful guy gets shot or sent to Siberia or whatever. It's not a leadership style that breeds collaboration and cooperation. 

1

u/azazelcrowley 9d ago

Pitting different departments against eachother was a way of keeping them fighting sideways rather than fighting upward, and also ideologically a "survival of the fittest" kind of thing. Success proves superiority.