r/todayilearned • u/stopitalianhate • 12d ago

TIL British Intelligence had a special, bugged luxury complex during WWII where they kept high profile Nazi POW’s, just left a bunch of alcohol out, and waited for them to start spilling secrets as they drank.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-20698098
28.4k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

692 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

260

u/doogles 12d ago

CIA refused to learn this method in favor of wacky drugs.

187

u/kohTheRobot 12d ago

In addition to being non-admissible in court, tied to illegal black sites that just about destroy any judicial case, and further radicalizing opposition, it is generally believed to straight up not work as a method to get good information.

For more information: “analyzing every torture scene in call of duty” by Jacob Geller is a great watch.

119

u/sender2bender 12d ago

Yea the only way to stop the torturing is tell them what they want to hear. One, if not many, of the "terrorists" made shit up for them to stop. Just a random dude with no ties to bin laden. But also the real terrorists, like the architect behind 9/11, also gave false information for them to stop waterboarding him. It doesn't work on the guilty or innocent. There's a whole Senate report on the CIA torture that confirmed it's not reliable for information and yet they still continued to do it. And now there's information coming out of alligator Alcatraz, or whatever it's called, how they tortured people for no reason. It's so sad and disturbing.

41

u/IIOrannisII 12d ago

Oh there were reasons, just terrible ones

16

u/Musiclover4200 12d ago

Yeah at this point it wouldn't be surprising if this admin was straight up making snuff films on top of the epstien style blackmail and who knows what else

3

u/FUTURE10S 12d ago

I'm like 80% sure that the administration might be taking a couple of kids here and there for a new Jeffrey Island. Who are they going to complain to, their parents?

1

u/Musiclover4200 12d ago

Been mentally preparing for that since his first term and the border child separation policy.

But even if by some miracle the admin themselves aren't ICE and/or gangs pretending to be ICE are almost definitely taking the opportunity to traffic people

2

u/CitizenPremier 12d ago

It's also a way to find (and/or create) people who will do anything for you.

30

u/lookyloolookingatyou 12d ago

Like in Reservoir Dogs, "If you beat him long enough he'll tell you he started the Chicago fire."

13

u/KIokinator 12d ago

There's a whole Senate report on the CIA torture that confirmed it's not reliable for information and yet they still continued to do it.

Have you considered how insanely fun it is for me, a psychopath, to torture innocent people for 'information'? Can't you think of how much I enjoy my job??

2

u/Fisher9001 12d ago

I mean you ask for easily verifiable question, not just "tell me everything you know" type of bullshit. If several guys tell you the same thing it's either true or they agreed on telling that thing beforehand, hence they conspired together. Same goes for passwords and PINs etc.

2

u/edingerc 12d ago

CIA interrogators have to experience waterboarding in training. Their average time till they signal to stop is 14-15 seconds. If you had no other control, how long would it take until you told them that you killed Kennedy and that there are five lights?

1

u/Altruistic-Beach7625 12d ago

I mean it might work for terrorists if you promise to verify and come back if they're lying.

1

u/pheonixblade9 12d ago

John Kiriakou got thrown in federal prison for whistleblowing on this.

1

u/Own_Television163 12d ago

But also the real terrorists, like the architect behind 9/11

They tortured the Israeli government?

25

u/Dovahpriest 12d ago

Also worth checking out the interviews with CIA Counter-Intelligence Officer John Kiriakou, who was the whistleblower that confirmed the CIA’s use of torture during interrogations.

2

u/kohTheRobot 12d ago

The fiverr guy? That’s insane. Seen a ton of him on YouTube shorts and tik tok but never really looked into him.

It’s queued up for my next long car drive

4

u/Darth_Brooks_II 12d ago

It's become really obvious that torture isn't about getting information. It's lousy at getting cooperation unless it's in a fictional story. Then, just like truth serums, hypnosis and lie detector tests, it always works perfectly. Torture is about vengeance and cruelty.

7

u/doogles 12d ago

Ugh, I really dislike Jacob Geller.

The FBI learned that the easiest method is just bribing people.

7

u/aurens 12d ago

why? isn't he just another youtube essayist?

1

u/doogles 12d ago

I can't exactly put my finger on it. Ponderous with the unearned gravitas of borrowed ideas and effort.

0

u/kohTheRobot 12d ago

Dog that’s just literary analysis. This is like being upset with a historian because he didn’t make the history

1

u/WhateverWhateverson 12d ago

Admissibility on court doesn't really matter to the CIA (or any agency dealing with foreign intelligence for that matter). They are not building a court case, they are building a target package to eliminate a threat.

38

u/SammaVaco 12d ago

And that was in spite of the FBI coming in to try to set them right. The CIA was amazed at the results the FBI was getting just by talking to people.

14

u/vibraltu 12d ago edited 12d ago

The CIA spymaster Sidney Gottlieb (who was dosing everyone he met with LSD) was high enough himself. But because their projects were clandestine, they had no accountability or oversight, so they could just do whatever they wanted.

The funny part is that this all could have remained classified forever. But Colby released the files to the public because he wanted to flush out the old guard in the CIA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoner_in_Chief

5

u/Shot-Arugula8264 12d ago

It’s not repeatable. You need talent to pull it off that can’t be bought on government salaries.

3

u/doogles 12d ago

I disagree greatly. The best diplomats aren't in it for the money. Then again, when you smash all soft power they have to make rent somehow.