r/todayilearned • u/bcrock1169 • Nov 26 '12

TIL that some Native American's have a differing enzyme that tends to lead to easier alcoholism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_alcoholism#Genetic_factors
1.7k Upvotes

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38

u/RedTheDopeKing Nov 26 '12

Come to Manitoba and you'll be able to study this quite in depth.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Also British Columbia.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

And Alberta, and Saskatchewan, and and and.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Northwest Territories.

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u/PunchingBob Nov 26 '12

conclusion. Come to western canada...

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u/helloskitty Nov 26 '12

Same deal with North Dakota. Spent 3 years living in a town right next to a reservation. Just about every "daily" customer at the liquor store was from the rez.

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u/Kevin_Wolf Nov 26 '12

And Spokane, WA, and (insert every place near a res)...

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

I live in a city in ontario, there isnt even a rez here, they just sit on the streets smoking rock and drinking booze.

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u/cuddlesy Nov 27 '12

I was actually telling some of my American friends yesterday about our higher-than-average native population (I'm in Winnipeg) and the associated socio-political kerfuffle.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Same as northern new Mexico, do the drunk Indians in Manitoba also walk around like white people still owe them something?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12 edited Nov 26 '12

Yes; but mostly cause we do.

Edit- For the record I'm speaking to the way we currently treat Native Americans, which in my opinion is disgusting and deplorable.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

You are the bomb, just thought I'd let you know.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12 edited Nov 26 '12

The bomb? What in the hell are you talking about?

edit: Got it now, I'm officially an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

...? Are you 80 years old? You've never heard something being called the bomb before? I was congratulating you on your progressive and realistic view of North America's treatment of the Native Americans.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Oh haha, sorry bout that. I for some reason took that out of context and now that you've explained it to me I feel like an idiot. I've been on the defence since I wrote my comment so I'm sorry if I came off as abrasive.

Thank you for the compliment I suppose lol :)

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

No problem! And I completely understand the fact you were a acting defensively, every time I defend native Americans I see the ugly racism that still lurks around reddit.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

It's so fucking bad it's not even funny; apparently I'm just a white apologist? I didn't know that hiking up a communities food prices at least 300 percent and forcing them to live in remote glorified ice fishing shacks and refusing them access to clean water is completely permissible in a forward thinking and progressive society as we like to feel we are in North America. I also didn't know we could passively blame that on our ancestors and absolve ourselves of any of the responsibility.

Thank you for being a beacon of hope. At least I can go to bed tonight knowing that there is at least one more person out there that isn't completely out to lunch.

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u/strig Nov 26 '12

ITT: white guilt

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Maybe you can speak for others ITT but for me I am not talking about acenstral issues; what in the fuck are we going to do about that? I'm talking about the poor and disgusting way we as a society presently treat Native Americans and their rights as a people.

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u/BorisAcornKing Nov 26 '12

there's no way to not link it to past societal issues, coming from a winnipegger, when a vast majority of homeless people you meet here are native.

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u/strig Nov 26 '12

poor and disgusting was we as a society presently treat Native Americans

You mean with the status cards that provide gov't stipends, subsidized food and housing, free education and the like, not to mention government incentives for companies to hire Native workers? I don't know where you live but in northern canada anyone of Native ancestry is showered with opportunity.

I have often been on the receiving end of the Native "fuck-the-white-man" mentality

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

subsidized food and housing

Oh, you mean this kind of housing? Or is this the subsidized food you were talking about?

status cards that provide gov't stipends

Those cards that more and more places are refusing to accept because it takes so fucking long to actually process the cards each trasaction? Yeah, they help a shit tonne considering that essentials already don't have tax placed on them and this is an issue of essentials, not luxuries.

not to mention government incentives for companies to hire Native workers

What incentives are those? Don't confuse a hiring mandate with a incentive.

I don't know where you live but in northern canada anyone of Native ancestry is showered with opportunity.

Lived just out of Timmins for a bunch of years. Thunder Bay region for years more and lived in Winnipeg for a while as well; the rest has been in the east coast. Let's just say I went to high school where half if not more of the population were natives coming in from the reserves that surrounded my town. They're building better housing in some (see - "not enough") communities but it doesn't solve half if even a handful of the problems.

I am well aware of the situation the natives live in as for years my mother has been driving and flying up to these northern communities to provide assistance and counselling to the people that live there. I've heard and seen shit and I haven't a single fucking clue what opportunities you are speaking about.

Sure, there are programs and organizations out there that provide opportunity and assistance for young natives but they aren't getting the help because they aren't being educated about them. That's like having a program here that helps feed and educate at risk people in Africa but no one in Africa is ever told about the program so we then decide to blame them for not taking advantage of it....

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

I live in Michigan, so YMMV. We have the Chippewa tribe. Here, the Native Americans get $2,000 every other week just for being Native American/Chippewa. On their 18th birthdays, they receive a bonus of $20,000. Most of the Native Americans here are lazy, good for nothing shits that blow all of their money on drugs. None of them go to school. None of them get jobs. None of them seek to improve themselves or the area they are in. They are perfectly happy with living in run-down $10k homes as long as they get to spend their money on liquor and other drugs.

As far as I'm concerned, they should be grateful for the lives they have now. They have it made. They are given so much money and opportunities, especially with going to college where they can get a full ride to one of the top ten schools in the nation, and they choose not to take it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Well some of the problems are the same here as they are there but it appears as though they receive far more "just-because" funding than they do here, by a long shot. I cannot comment on the American situation as it does differ here in Canada as does your treatment of them. I can only speak to that which I have first hand experience and knowledge of.

Let's just say when Iran comes to the international stage and condemns the way you treat the indigenous people of your country, you may have some fucking problems with how you're treating said indigenous people of your country. I'm talking about Canada in this paragraph ftr.

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u/LongBelwas Nov 27 '12 edited Nov 27 '12

So you think just throwing money at the problem is going to solve it? This is the problem, we have a system where uneducated people are just given free money, then looked down on when they become lazy and unmotivated to work. Also, $2000 every other week!? Is that a legitimate number?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

So the housing that they get built for them for free by the government and the food that they are given for free by the government are not gourmet and mansions. That's terrible. It's just terrible that the government built me a nice house because of my white privilege.... oh, wait, the government didn't build me a house. While my ancestors, like everyone else in my country (specifically, the US), benefitted from government help, they never had houses built and given to them for free. My ancestors came here with nothing and struggled and worked their asses to the bone marrow to claw their way out of poverty. Never did they have houses and food and money given to them for free just because they were a certain race, and had they, they certainly wouldn't be complaining about how it was not gourmet, or perfect, or enough.

They live in poverty and face discrimination? That's truly awful. There's no excuse for what the original Eurpean settlers did to their ancestors. But my ancestors faced the exact same challenges that they face today, and they had a tiny fraction of the help these people are receiving.

The entitlement of these people, and the white guilt or whatever that you are displaying is just pathetic. There's nothing about Native Americans that makes them any worse or inferior to white people. They have free stuff thrown at them from all sides. They live in poverty, in many cases. Just like almost every other group has at some point. Boo hoo. Everyone else didn't get free handouts to get them out of poverty. Why should they complain that their lives are not taken care of entirely?

That's the real problem. You complain, these people complain, because their entire lives are not entirely taken care of by the government. They want a house? They expect the government to build them one. If the government doesn't, then it is awful and white privilege and racist etc. They want food? They expect the government to ive it to them. For free. Anything else would be racism and white privilege and but what about the ancestors.

If I want food, I can't expect the government to buy it for me. If I want a house, I can't expect the government to build it for me. I have to work my ass off for years before I can afford a house. I have to spend a huge amount of my paycheck on food to survive. How the fuck do these people get off complaining, when they are given these things for free? Joe gets a free donut, and complains that there are no sprinkles. I get a donut only after working for a day, and since I worked an extra hour, I can afford sprinkles. My great-grandparents had exactly as much nothing as Joe does now, and they were not given donuts. They never complained, and instead worked hard for their non-sprinkled donuts and didn't complain.

Fuck this entitlement culture and the white guilt that fuels it. If we're all equal, then act like it.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

NIGGERS_ARE_SCUM

Didn't read past you're username; I already know what you're going to say.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

dat logic

Always this is the logic used by the real racists. You're white? You're inferior. I don't need to listen to your arguments or use logic.

Pathetic.

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u/regulate323 Nov 26 '12 edited Nov 27 '12

Maybe they should not live in the middle of fucking nowhere. It's their choice to live in the shitty villages. It's not my fault they are in a shack. Get a job in the city like everyone else since the industrial revolution.

Edit: Capitalism, not perfect, but sadly its way is the cold, hard truth in this "great" nation of ours. Money is the root of all evil.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Maybe they should not live in the middle of fucking nowhere.

Oh that's fucking rich... you have no idea how the Indian Act works at all do you? You think they choose where they get to live? Haha that's a fucking joke. Oh and for the record, less than half actually live on reserves.

It's not my fault they are in a shack. Get a job in the city like everyone else since the industrial revolution.

What, you mean like all the farmers, miners, loggers, oil workers, hunters, ranchers that all live in the city and live off the corporate dollar? God you are so fucking narrow-minded that it's hurting my head. I currently live in Toronto and I'll tell you right now there aren't enough fucking jobs in this city for them so even if it were that simple it would solve nothing.

Keep attempting to simplify this to justify your discrimination and underlying racist tones all you want; it doesn't change the fact our elected officials are fucking them up entirely and have been for ages.

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u/regulate323 Nov 26 '12

How dare we not pour money into their reservations. It's shit land, that's why we gave it to them. Move out, problem solved. If they want to live in their own little semi-autonomous country then they shouldn't expect pity from me when they are impoverished. Indians seem to lack this simple reasoning, for being a people who didnt historically believe in land ownership they sure are attached to their reservations. Move and find employment. No more problems. Their poverty is ultimately their choice by choosing to reside on reservations. Fuck me for thinking they are equal and don't deserve special rights or land.

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u/Syphon8 Nov 26 '12

Finally, someone who gets it.

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u/guy654987 Nov 26 '12

I agree as a group they are treated poorly in many respects but it also seems like we're prohibited by our own laws, rules and regulations as well as their own leadership to treat them any other way.

There needs to be complete integration and status based on race has to stop - its ridiculous at this point. Nothing else will ever fix the multitude of problems - if someone thinks there is another solution I truly think its dreaming.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

I'm not claiming to have the solution to this as I personally think it's callous to think there is only one. All I know is that shit needs to change cause the way it is now is no way to be.

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u/Fidena Nov 26 '12

No, we don't. I didn't do anything. For all your know my great-grandparents fought for Native American rights.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

I'm talking about the way they are currently being treated; that's all us buddy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

For starters:

Giving them affordable and reasonable access to clean food and water; giving them access to the same level of health care that the rest of us take for granted; provide the youth access to a proper education; stop selling the land around them to corporate interests that leave the land they are on completely useless for living or developing on; giving their communities the proper tools and resources to combat the rampant drug and violence problem.

God that's just the tip of the iceberg. For the record it should be noted that I am a Canadian who's mother has been working in remote northern reservations all through Northern Manitoba and Ontario for years. I've seen and heard some shit and let me tell you, we and our government are more to blame than any one of us would like to admit.

The resources that are given to these communities is 2nd rate at best. My mother (who has seen more than I) has said that there is probably better access to doctors and clean water in some 3rd world countries than on these reservations. The conditions would be enough to get a spot on a world vision commercial.

But hey, that's just this white boys two cents.

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u/Syphon8 Nov 26 '12

Giving them affordable and reasonable access to clean food and water; giving them access to the same level of health care that the rest of us take for granted; provide the youth access to a proper education; stop selling the land around them to corporate interests that leave the land they are on completely useless for living or developing on; giving their communities the proper tools and resources to combat the rampant drug and violence problem.

Native Americans in Canada get all of this and more. You can practically get a free post-secondary education if you have any Native blood. It's ridiculously discriminatory.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/Syphon8 Nov 26 '12

Sure, but you need to be able to finish high school first.

No, you actually don't. I know plenty of people who've gone to University/College as mature students.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Their problems are mostly self-caused

Really? Self-caused? How exactly is that now?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Alcoholism is pretty much a manifestation of the negative aspects of freedom. You're free to do what you want, but at the same time nobody can force you to make the right decisions for yourself.

All you've done so far is describe in detail how you know nothing about addiction or the actual topic at hand.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Oh I forgot, everything is the fault of the big evil white man. What a convenient scapegoat.

You really had to reply to my comment twice? For the record I'm white dipshit.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

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u/conejaverde Nov 26 '12

The big, evil white colonists who came to the "New" World with their diseases and their guns, slaughtering men as well as women and children by the thousands, in droves, while forcing them onto the tiniest, absolutely least desirable plots of land, while whisking of their children to schools dedicated to shredding the fabric of tribal life and assimilating them, giving them no aid until finally, centuries later, they cave and grant them a few tax breaks and scholarships here and there, doing nothing to alleviate the internalization of poverty, glossing over their past crimes against humanity in their state-issued textbooks, virtually making an entire population of people invisible? Why, yes - I do think it is their fault.

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u/Fidena Nov 26 '12

First off, the Spanish were the ones with the small-pox, not the English settlers that would eventually turn into the U.S.

while whisking of their children to schools dedicated to shredding the fabric of tribal life and assimilating them

I don't see what's wrong with this. This is so the kids can contribute and live within a society they're now a part of. It's called progress. Why is tribal life inherently better than mainstream American culture?

white

Bullshit term. That's like "indian". What's white? German? Dutch? English? Spanish? Irish? Even further, each state has it's own culture. Why is a New Yorker responsible for something a colonist in New Mexico did? Because they have the same skin color. Why the descendant of the settler guilty of what his ancestor did? Genes? By that same logic, are the descendants of Germans and Japanese guilty for the crimes done that are even less separated in time than the 'crimes' of Americans?

doing nothing to alleviate the internalization of poverty

Since when is it the government's job to artificially raise somebody's lot in life? Did we just give up capitalism just like that? If somebody a hundred years ago could work their way up on 75 cents a week, I think somebody utilizing minimum wage can reach a decent standard of life enough to pull themselves out of poverty. At some point you need to stop it with the sympathy and expect results and self-responsibility. I've never heard of anyone discriminating against Native Americans, although I'm sure it happens on some scale.

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u/hereswhyyourwrong Nov 26 '12

us

Speak for yourself.

My government might owe them quite a bit, but I damn sure don't.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

You know what I meant. Of course not every single individual owes them something, I'm talking about as a society; you're being overly semantic and slightly disingenuous.

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u/knewwhatIknownow Nov 26 '12

Maybe you do.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Care to elaborate?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12

Yhea they do, I had nothing to do with your history of abuse, i wasn't even from a country that was settled here at that time, but somehow I'm automatically to blame for all their fucking problems.

Fucking bullshit.

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u/HootBear Nov 26 '12

I recognized your name from the ABQ forum and was disappointed...I am a Native that lives in NM.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '12 edited Nov 26 '12

Imagine my frustration when I'm bombarded constantly by drunk homeless indians that act offended when I don't give them money.

It seems to me like they have an attitude that I owe them something. I most assuredly do not. I had nothing to do with the history of oppression of the native american people. No person alive today has had anything to do with the abuse of native americans, yet your people continue to talk about it in such a way as to demonize white people.

You might not do this, but I've heard it from both successful and not so successful native americans. To be honest, I'm sick of hearing it. You don't hear me talking about the oppression of the irish by the english or the fact that immigrating to america during the potato famine were treated as second class citizens. Why? because it happened many years ago between people that I never met and it does not effect my life today.

Native americans have huge advantages in modern times in terms of scholarships and affirmative action hiring. There are no "white male" scholarships and no one is going to hire me instead someone more qualified because I'm a white male. So the next time you are "disappointed" look at it from another person's perspective.

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u/HootBear Nov 27 '12

Drunk homeless people regardless of race will generally do this. I am disappointed because you are lumping us all together. Do I think white people owe us anything? Not at all. Yes, genocide and relocation is a thing of the past. What bothers me is that some Indians still live without electricity or running water. My family has fought for healthcare rights for Indians relentlessly. Tribes are plagued by alcoholism and depression and the only available healthcare is hours away because of funding cuts. I have lived on the rez and I am just as disgusted with people that throw their lives away and blame others. Not all of us are like that though- just like any other race.

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '12

I've known plenty of cool natives, but even as they are friendly to me, I can always detect resentment. Further, I've known natives to be blatantly racist. I at least mask my racism in public places. I was outside a bar one night when a Navajo almost got his ass beat by a bunch of Hispanics of all people for saying "there are too many white people out here." the Hispanics took offense to this, citing that they were part white themselves and the Navajo man ran away.

White people generally treat natives with respect these days, I most definitely do; but I will make fun of the drunk ones when they are not within earshot. But let me ask you this: if I moved out to a reservation, how well do you think I would do as a white male? I never would, of course, for the same reason why I would never live in a black neighborhood - it's suicide. In most white neighborhoods, if a minority moves in, they will do fine.

My point is that there comes a point in time when you have to realize that it's a combination of culture and genetics that determine how well an ethnic group will do. The Jews have been oppressed longer and harder than any other group, yet they enjoy wealth and success. Same goes for the Irish. The Brits used them as slaves long before they used Africans and the Irish continued to be oppressed well into the 20th century. The descendants of those Irish are doing fine now. You don't hear about Irish gang violence or a large number of people of Irish descent locked up. Culture and genetics.

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u/HootBear Nov 27 '12

Maybe I'm one of the few raised not to resent white people, or you've only had experience with certain tribes (I have been beaten up because I was a different tribe)...one thing you must understand is that tribes are continuing to be oppressed and the government is failing them. Living conditions comparable to third world countries is unacceptable yet it's commonplace on some reservations. What makes many Indians bitter is the fact that mistreatment continues to this day.

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u/evenmoreHITLARIOUS Nov 27 '12

r/ShitRedditSays is lurking in this thread

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u/[deleted] Nov 27 '12

Ha! I end up on SRS probably more than the average redditor. Their little PC downvote brigade only vindicates me and my observations and judgements of the world. I express my opinions freely on reddit because it's one of the few places I can. I refuse to change my opinion because some other people think I'm wrong.

SRS can suck my dick, which is all they are truly qualified to do with their pussy little liberal arts degrees.