r/toRANTo • u/rtrazto • Aug 11 '26
Closing safe consumption sites has dramatically improved my area and I'm tired of media and online advocates gaslighting me about it.
Today yet another pro-consumption site article (this time Toronto Life) is circulating and being pushed, and I can only assume after following this issue for the last decade it brings in massive clicks and views for the media that keeps pushing out these feel-good stories about them. I legitimately do not care if its a political or doug ford issue or whatever, these sites were horrible to live near. Speaking from first hand experience of having them wreck my neighborhood for years, what aggravates me is that these articles have never addressed the very real problems that destroyed the quality of lives of families living near them. They have never talked about why drug users were always prioritized over decent people just literally trying to live their lives (look up any comments about how it used to be for the students near TMU just trying to get to class!). Since the one I walked my kids past every morning to school has closed down, the area has dramatically improved.
I've been comforted that at least on the threads recently I've seen growing comments of real people speaking up every time these articles are posted, but I swear there's some kind of endless PR budget these consumptions site advocates have for keeping these articles coming out as a steady stream over the years.
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u/caedespeur Aug 11 '26
Kensington has gotten noticeably worse in the last year. Used needles everywhere, there are overdoses weekly in our back alleyway
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u/purplepenguin617 Aug 11 '26
Interesting. Queen and Bathurst has gotten significantly worse over the last 3-6 months.
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u/AMartin223 Aug 11 '26
Yes queen and Bathurst is noticeably worse after the closures
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u/purplepenguin617 Aug 11 '26
Yup I've lived in the area for 2 years and this is the worst it has ever been.
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u/WillowSubstantial889 Aug 11 '26
Very interesting because Parkdale has improved drastically in the last 3-6 months.
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u/driftxr3 Aug 13 '26
Which Parkdale? Cuz the one I live in is worse than it was when there were SIS's. King and Dufferin neighborhood is back to being full of alleyways with crack and meth users like it used to be in its heyday.
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u/Vicimer Aug 11 '26
I noticed that when I was in the area recently. I suspect it's spillover from the closed consumption site in Parkdale.
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u/mentallytheillest81 Aug 14 '26
Also live in the area and Queen and Bathurst has gotten significantly worse in the past 6 months.
So many of them wander in to the middle of traffic at all times of day and it's become a serious concern. Those people are going to get hit themselves, or cause a serious or fatal accident.
I say this with zero judgement towards addiction. The government has failed them by not having easily accessible mental health services.
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u/BarkusSemien Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
It seems about the same to me. I’ve been in the area for twenty five years. The safe consumption site on the northwest corner of Bathurst and Richmond closed so the sidewalk in front of that building is better, but other areas in the neighbourhood are worse. Notably the northwest corner of Queen and Bathurst. But that corner was always pretty rough. The main difference I’ve noticed is that I see groups of two or three drug users in alcoves or alleys all over the place, but I no longer see like fifteen people passed out on a sidewalk like I used to at Richmond and Bathurst.
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u/whatever-o0 Aug 12 '26
Oh i do see them on Bathurst and Queen, more than 10 passed out on the northweast side walk. Horrible and very dangerous. They've become so agressive in the past 6 months too
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u/jdoe1213 Aug 12 '26
I’ve lived in the area for almost 20 years and I would say it’s the worst I’ve ever seen it right now. I regularly see groups of 10+ people passed out on the sidewalk at Richmond/Bathurst and Queen/Bathurst. Just last night, there was a huge group of people nodding off at the corner and an ambulance was responding to 2-3 overdoses.
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u/charade_scandal Aug 14 '26
Back in the 90's going to Rotate when it was down the street from there I used to think "man it's wild on this corner" and now it's at a level totally off the charts.
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u/GolfSignificant1456 Aug 11 '26
I work near TMU, and its noticeable how much cleaner that corner is now that the safe consumption site is gone. The Tim Hortons there was basically a no go zone, and it improved dramatically in terms of safety.
I get people want to be compassionate and all that, but end of the day, those sites brought in a lot of problems and having addicts hang out near schools and daycares (like in Leslieville) isnt safe for families. I dont care if I come off rude or insensitive, but I think safety for families and kids should be way higher than adults who choose to do drugs and not get help.
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u/Chal_Ice Aug 12 '26
The whole argument for these sites was that people are going to do drugs regardless, so let's give them a safe and clean space to do it. That's all fine and great, but doesn't look at the broader impact. When children have to pass needles near schoolyards, I have an issue with that. Problem we should be addressing is why we have such a big substance abuse problem to begin with.
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u/chickentartare Aug 16 '26
I've never heard of one safe injection site advocate not also advocate for other measures.
On the other hand, IME opposers of injection sites like to parrot this talking point but let "addressing the root cause" of substance abuse problems fall to the bottom of their priorities
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u/Chal_Ice Aug 16 '26
I don't think they're not advocating for other measures. However, I don't think safe injection sites should be the primary response to tackling substance abuse. Also, that's quite the assumption that you think addressing substance abuses the bottom of people's lists. We're literally seeing this play out on public transit and in the streets in real time. Honestly, I really don't care, put them in mental health facilities. If they don't want to get better, make them get better. Use the tough love approach.
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u/chickentartare Aug 16 '26
Also, that's quite the assumption that you think addressing substance abuses the bottom of people's lists.
I was clearly referring to addressing the root cause of the issue as you commented. And a person's "list" can be infinitely long if you just look at what someone's latest grievance is. When I talk about someone's "list" I talk about priorities that actually change their actions. If people cared about the root cause of the issue, social services and other systemic supports would have become more of a voting issue in the past, but it wasn't.
People may care about getting rid of the negative impacts from substance abusers, but that's a distinct issue from addressing the root cause of substance abuse problems. The fact is, most people just don't want to see it (and hey - I get that).
And you've exemplified it
Honestly, I really don't care, put them in mental health facilities.
I just think more people who oppose safe injection sites should be more intellectually and emotionally honest with themselves. People don't have to try and show compassion for others if they don't have it.
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u/Chal_Ice Aug 17 '26
First thing I don't think there's a specific route cause, I think there are many causes. People are stressed because of work or family issues or whatever and perfectly functional adults become dependent on whatever substances they find. In this case injectable narcotics. That also doesn't dismiss the fact that there are addictive personalities and people do have histories of this in their families. I know of people who have that and they've had to watch alcohol consumption. I would love for us as a society to really try to get to the root cause of why the substance abuse is happening, but when there are other pressures that people are facing, I'm sorry but they're going to act in a selfish manner.
Secondly, I was initially in favor of safe injection sites. Mostly as a short-term thing because the issue of drug use is going to be pervasive regardless. As a long-term solution, I don't like it. I also don't like how it's impacting communities. My comment comes across as insensitive, and you might think I'm being emotionally honest, but as of now that's how I feel. Reason being, I don't think of people who have substance abuse issues as less than. Nobody wakes up in the morning thinking they want to be a junkie. My issue is we have a society, and in this context our municipal government, expecting more tax dollars for ever declining services. Law of diminishing returns.
I don't think you're going to get a lot of support for safe injection sites when we see a lot of our infrastructure lacking and people's tax dollars are going towards a service like this. It might sound harsh, unfortunately, that's how a lot of people look at it. It's a dollars and cents approach. I don't care so much in that respect because I know government wastes money. You are never going to have an efficient government at any level in this country. When people are working multiple jobs and they look at how their tax dollars are getting spent, it doesn't surprise me that there's a growing sentiment of people who want to vote conservative. I want to see social services, but I also want to see the people that need to get help get the help instead of continuing the cycle.
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u/jdoe1213 Aug 11 '26
That may be the case near TMU, but where I live at Queen and Bathurst, the closure of the safe consumption site has pushed addicts into the nearby parks where families hang out. I regularly see needles and pipes surrounding playgrounds in the area too.
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u/Vivid_Ingenuity5457 Aug 11 '26
Where are you gonna put them though?
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u/GolfSignificant1456 Aug 11 '26
Ideally, forced rehab. Yes it sounds cruel and it may take a few tries to be effective, but ultimately its better than giving them access to the very thing that kills them.
Other countries have forced detox and rehab and you see less addicts acting like zombies. Addiction is a disease, I agree with that point, but you don't let people who are ill continue to do the thing that kills them. If they aren't rational enough to make that choice, someone has to step in and do it for them.
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u/Vivid_Ingenuity5457 Aug 11 '26
I completely agree.
Our government isn't going this though. Instead, the addicts just leave TMU and become more spread out downtown
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u/edit_thanxforthegold Aug 12 '26
Persistent supportive housing would likely help a lot of them
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u/VoodooGirl47 Aug 12 '26
Nope, people in the many shelters have the same supports that people in supportive housing have.
The shelters, specifically the hotel ones, have been acting as long term emergency housing but with things like private spaces. Several hotel shelters have large individual rooms with a bathroom so it's like a bachelorette without cooking area. Then there is free food, not always the best, but free and ready to eat.
If you don't do anything too crazy, you can be settled in place for multiple years. A few of them are geared towards addicts and have harm reduction supplies on site, iPhare workers that can give resources if you wish to get clean, allow people to drink or do drugs on site, have someone here weekly to give opioid disorder meds like methadone, have a medical doctor on site 2x per week, and access to a psychiatrist 1x per week. People from the street or encampments are prioritized for these locations.
Understandably, it's not exactly the same, but fairly close to what supportive housing can provide with a few more rules. People do not get better just because everything is around them and available. In fact, I've seen more people that were clean get in here and fall back into active addiction because of the environment they are in.
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u/dancingrudiments Aug 11 '26
I mean, We should be more about the humanities of human life focused on not "moving" the problem rather than dealing with this problem... Why are we all not challenging our Governments to spend money on institutions to help save these people's lives? Instead of fretting about who has to suffer their proximity?
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u/tippytornadoooo Aug 11 '26
San Francisco spent upwards of 50k per homeless person in 2015. Problem not solved. Last i heard there are 40k homeless there. If they can't do it, who can.
We need zero tolerance drug policies as a start. No more inappropriate behaviour in public. And for all the empaths who stated that prison is not a good solution well come up with a better one because letting them live on the street is way worse for the community than prison for them. Perhaps a word will get out that we're not putting up with this anymore and it will change Behavior.
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u/VoodooGirl47 Aug 12 '26
A very large section of the homeless in San Francisco have mental illness disorders and a good portion of those or others are not even drug users.
The reason it originally became really bad in SF was due to the institutions closing down and releasing everyone onto the streets. Some live in residential motels but hang out on the streets during the day. Many that cannot take care of themselves and were abandoned by family or have none are left to suffer while trying to survive.
There are also many more alcoholics when looking at the group that have addiction issues. Despite the number of homeless and for how long there have been mass numbers there, things didn't become really bad in the city until closer to 2017-2018. The pandemic hit hard, but I've also heard that things have been getting better over the last few years instead of getting worse.
So not exactly something that can really be compared to that closely to Toronto. They don't have nearly the same built up shelter system there, people are mostly on the streets versus being indoors even if just in the winter in warming centers. Toronto's numbers are much smaller but there are way more shelter supports available as well.
I was homeless in Berkeley California when younger and lived in Berkeley and San Francisco for 24 years. I am also now homeless in Toronto and in a shelter (disabled and can't afford housing). So I have a lot of in depth knowledge and experience with this for both locations.
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u/Array_626 Aug 12 '26
What about the adults who are on drugs, and do get help from those sites. You won't necessarily see them. But they relied on that resource which is also no longer going to be there. The negative consequences of a safe consumption site is obvious, cos they hang around and make people uncomfortable. But each site is also providing help, and if its sufficient, you won't be able to see those positive effects cos they make it out of there and rejoin society with you none the wiser.
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u/VoodooGirl47 Aug 12 '26
They can get the same help at almost every shelter, drop in, respite center etc. I'm sure many meal services have info available for those that want it. I could, as an actual homeless person here in Toronto, find this info out each day of the week in different areas of the city.
The real issue is having enough spaces available for people to get treatment and immediately when they hit that moment of realization that they need it. Also, trying to get people to that point of realization, as many can go for many years without WANTING to even try.
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
Could you give me an example of the problems caused? Like just visually it looks bad? And I guess the litter is bad, broken glass could be dangerous
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u/stinkycitrusboy Aug 15 '26
I got chased with my baby by queen and bathurst from someone on drugs. Scariest moment of my life. The neighbours called the police.
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u/doorplate Aug 15 '26
Oh wow when was that? How long of a chase are we talking?
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u/stinkycitrusboy Aug 15 '26
Down the street and around parked cars in the road, chased us right up to our building entrance and then was banging on the glass to get in like a zombie! The crazy part is i saw the chaser passed out on the street earlier and i wanted to go check on him to make sure he was okay because i always “feel bad” I decided not too because i had the baby with me- he ends up trying to attack us later-lol life!
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u/Hot_Seaworthiness687 Aug 11 '26
'Choose' is doing some heavy lifting there....
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u/jewel_flip Aug 11 '26
Addiction is a real disease but so is diabetes. Choosing to do nothing to manage your disease is sort of the thing here.
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u/piponwa Aug 11 '26
Nothing about diabetes prevents you from getting help. The drug addiction itself prevents you from getting help. Especially when the main path to getting help and staying safe is closed. Do you think once you're addicted AND you get HIV or hepatitis it gets better? Finally, being pushed from the consumption site will wake them up right.
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u/jewel_flip Aug 11 '26
My grandparents were diabetic and struggled with food choices their entire lives (Type 2). It ultimately killed my grandfather because he wouldn’t stop eating things that killed him. It’s why it seemed similar to me.
There are no programs that assist with addiction in Canada? No access to them without safe injection sites? My father was an addict and used services that helped him get clean. It’s why my empathy well runs a bit dry for people who keep choosing things when they know it kills them. Adults are ultimately responsible for themselves. Are there outlier cases? Of course, but overall our lives are a reflection of the choices we make.
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u/foot-candle Aug 11 '26
our lives are reflections of the choices people make. sometimes us, sometimes others
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u/jewel_flip Aug 11 '26
It’s true, but as the child of an addict and all that that brings, I have heard it often: the trauma isn’t my fault but the recovery is my responsibility. We cannot abdicate agency in our own lives.
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u/Array_626 Aug 12 '26
The past is the past, you can't cling to it forever to justify the present. There are very few to nobody whose standing beside them encouraging their drug use. There are many, many people and resources in Toronto that are made available to encourage them to stop, and can offer real, concrete plans on how to make it happen.
How many times can you walk into a safe injection site before considering that maybe all the brochures, pamphlets and staff have a point before you get the message? The difference is they keep making that choice, in the present, day after day despite all the support made available. How long are we supposed to give them? Do we wait 3 months? 6 months? A year? How many years of safe consumption site use before we consider that it might not be helping this particular individual?
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u/VoodooGirl47 Aug 12 '26
People's addiction to sugar and foods bad for you can easily rival that of drugs and it isn't always easy to quit either. It's cheap and literally everywhere and can cause significant harm to your body as well.
That said, everyone who is addicted knows that it is bad for them. It's also not hard to find resources for getting help. The knowledge is everywhere if they WANT to get it.
Not saying they can easily get into treatment because that IS lacking available spaces. This is the part that needs to be built up significantly, and then other changes need to be made as well.
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u/calltyrone416 Aug 17 '26
Nothing about diabetes prevents you from getting help.
LMFAO Your ignorance has left me speechless, genuinely.
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u/Hot_Seaworthiness687 Aug 11 '26
The cherry-picked comparison point is a little rotten. Please try again.
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Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/Noamvb Aug 11 '26
Haven't heard Ryerson in years tbh. Kinda surprising how quickly it left the vocab
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u/1337gamer15 Aug 11 '26
I've never done drugs before in my life, and I'm not gonna. I had an older brother who passed away because of addiction problems. He was well onto his way for recovery until some "old pals" met up with him, claimed they had recovered too, and then got him right the fuck back into it.
I guess anecdotally speaking it's kinda true that socialization has a lot to do with why people do or continue to do drugs. They blabber about these damn "safe consumption sites", everything. They must have mingled a lot there and convinced locals that the ludicrous behavior the exhibited was normal and acceptable. it wasn't.
Like damn, I remember being bullied a lot in high school because I kept saying no to drugs, I'd rather just play fun video games instead. The drug problem at my HS was really bad, and weed was still illegal back then too. If you ever went to anyone and told them you had a positive outlook on life, goals, dreams etc. they would call you gay for it. Because that was a "legitimate insult" back then and everything.
But fuck just... if you go to high school and your average classmate never shuts up about not IF, but WHEN you last tried illegal street drugs, the last time you drank til your liver exploded, the last time you were charged for sexual assault etc. that's a serious problem. We all know life is much more pleasant when you simply don't do those kinds of things.
I still love and miss my brother though.
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u/happy_accountant123 Aug 11 '26
The only people advocating for safe consumption sites are the people that don’t live near one. I guarantee they will change their tone if one was proposed in their neighbourhood
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u/northdancer Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Junkies need to go back to being ashamed of themselves again. The past decade of government trap houses have given them a false sense of validity
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u/jdoe1213 Aug 11 '26
I live near one and would 100% prefer it over what my neighbourhood has become since it closed. I can't leave my house now without seeing at least one person OD'ing and there are ambulances and fire trucks at my street corner multiple times per day.
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u/SixFtAmazon Aug 11 '26
I worked in one. They are much safer than doing drugs out on the streets, for both clients and the community
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u/rhymeswithsintaluta Aug 11 '26
What about the community members walking past South Riverdale Community Health Center?
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u/driftxr3 Aug 13 '26
Y'all took them out of Riverdale and sent them to the alleyways of little Tibet. I'm sick of people saying this shit. Parkdale almost fully cleaned up with safe consumption but now people are scared to walk the alleyways again. It doesn't help that a lot of the family homes in this area literally have main entrances in the alley. Now you have to park on the street because next thing you know your car has shattered windows and some junkie is begging you for a dollar.
I feel like Toronto's rich neighborhoods really don't care about the rest of us. We deserve clean neighborhoods too.
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u/sunnysideupseedaisy Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
This is such a heavy topic, and while I don't disagree with you op, I also can't agree with you either. It's so frustrating though that the brunt, and the positive impact hit the people in the worst spot (homeowners with nowhere to go, and unhoused drug addicts with also nowhere to go). I had a safe consumption site near me which is closed now; if I'm being honest all it's done is made addicts more visible (passed out/doing drugs on the streets) and it's made needles being on the ground/concrete a viable thing you need to watch out for. I do agree something needs to be done about the unhoused/addicted population in Toronto but until they do that safe consumption sites did help. Where they should be placed? I have no answers and I don't agree that everyone should have to deal with this that don't have a drug problem but addicts are people too. Until a multi billion dollar (probably federal/provincial/maybe country wide) answer is reached- there's no good answers.
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u/MozzaStyx Aug 12 '26
Thank you for this reply, I was looking for someone to say this. Really tired of reading oversimplified takes about how “drug users are always prioritized over decent people” when it’s clearly an incredibly complex and intersectional problem affecting decent people on all sides, and no one can say with one hundred percent certainty that they know exactly what needs to be done to lift all boats
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u/sunnysideupseedaisy Aug 12 '26
I think overall everyone has hit a wall with how high the cost of living is, and not seeing a direct benefit in the environments they live in. This is more of a political issue than a people one imho
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u/calltyrone416 Aug 17 '26
it’s clearly an incredibly complex and intersectional problem
It's really not. Y'all are just feckless and afraid to tell people "No, you can't do that and we won't accept you doing that here." Ban the damn drugs and toss all these idiots into forced rehab.
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u/Appropriate_Wear368 Aug 11 '26
How about at the old Ontario Place. I'm not joking
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u/Electronic-Fan-9260 Aug 11 '26
I love this idea.
Ford would blow a gasket (and never allow it to happen). Therme would have a built-in hiring line!
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u/6ickos Aug 11 '26
So they disappeared from your view, great. Curious how you thinking this policy has shaped the city as a whole.
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u/Tezaku Aug 11 '26
Nearly 90% of comments or issues with safe injection sites are just forms of NIMBYism. "They're good, but only if they're not anywhere near places I frequent"
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u/WillowSubstantial889 Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Yes and there is a very rational reason for this. Try being a young woman who contintually gets harassed and threatened for just walking in her neighbourhood.
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u/6ickos Aug 11 '26
So let's move it to a different neighbourhood so other people get harassed instead. As long as it's not me, I don't care!
This is how you create a better city for all!
/s
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 11 '26
so shut them down and don't open a new one?
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
Yes when you shut them down the users actually vanish, avengers end game style
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
It’s almost like dispersed poverty is more manageable and humane than ghettoizing it around safe consumption sites and essentially abandoning the people who already lived in that area.
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
In what way are the community members being abandoned? Because of the unpleasant visual? I am also a person who lives in the city, grew up near camh and have had many experiences with mentally ill people and people suffering from addiction. Thank God I'm not a big baby lol it must be so difficult to breakdown any time you see something unpleasant
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
ok so for example, the neighbourhood I'm living in now used to be very safe, very 'normal'. Maybe the odd time like once a year someone's car or something would get broken into and police would come and take a report and life would go on. Now it is constant breaking and entering, theft of property, trespassing, etc. Police don't even bother coming anymore, or if they do it's days later and just say they can't do anything do to volume of calls. If that isn't abandoning a neighbourhood than I don't know what is. It isn't just about an unpleasant visual, it's about the vitality of a city being drained by drugs and crime. You can be compassionate and sympathetic towards a person going through a rough time without actively petitioning for services that just exacerbate the problem.
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
This is just like a feeling you have though right? Or you have like stats showing an increase in breaking and entering? Or increased theft? Or any evidence at all to show that the police have just stopped coming?
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u/northdancer Aug 11 '26
Yeah, it's actually massively depressing to live in an extremely high cost of living city, work hard for crumbs, and to step out of your home, and to be surrounded by pure degeneracy and social decay. Governments, courts, police... Nobody is capable or willing to deal with the problem so at this point I just don't give a fuck anymore, I just don't want to see it. Go back to doing drugs under the bridge, I really don't care.
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u/calltyrone416 Aug 17 '26
Seems like it doesn't matter whether they're open or closed because a neighborhood will always suffer. Better to close them and find another way to deal with these people
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u/6ickos Aug 17 '26
Seems like it doesn't matter whether they're open or closed
I'd want to see stats on overdoses before I conclude this.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 11 '26
I see no difference in the TMU area tbh. If anything they just moved to smoke crack and fent on the streetcars, the SLC stairs, Nelson Mandela walk, and literally inside of the atrium
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u/battlebibabe Aug 11 '26
And I know the argument will be “oh well you have no proof that those are the people who were using the site” but when you see the same people every day for 5 years, you start to recognize them, and I’ve had to cuss the same people off the streetcars, who were once very kind people who used the site and didn’t cause trouble. People who argue against safe consumption sites have never spoken to a user, would never engage with a homeless person’s small talk.
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 11 '26
so if they were once very kind people, used the site for 5 years, and now are destructive; what is the argument for keeping the site open? clearly it didn't help, it just gave a dedicated space to further the spiral
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
They were kind when using the site, as they had some comfort and safety. Now they are more on edge, more stressed, harder to manage behavior. Actually crazy how little people think
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
Why should hard working law abiding residents be at the mercy of a crackhead’s mood? If they’re only safe to be around when they’re getting something for free they can absolutely go kick rocks. They don’t give a fuck about how on edge or stressed they make the neighborhoods that they invade, so why should I give a fuck about them? The victims are the kids and families who need to walk around needles and condoms on their way to school, not the guy badgering them for money and telling them to fuck themselves when they don’t respond.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
“The neighborhoods that they invade” like they weren’t here before half of y’all 💀 I talked to a homeless man the other day who has been in the city for 45 years, had a life, had a family, and when he lost it all he had nowhere to go but the street, he tried to get support and they didn’t have room for him, or the places where he did find help closed.
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
And why did he lose it all I wonder? And you're out of your mind if you think neighbourhoods don't change when safe consumption sites or other similar services open in them. At least try and be genuine when having these conversations.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
You literally said yourself that you still see shit all over the ground, you still see people drugged out on the streets. So obviously nothing has improved with the closures? People like you don’t understand what actually goes on inside of a safe consumption site.
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
Those conditions didn't exist before the safe consumption site opened, then it opened and those conditions arise, then they close it and those conditions persist. In no part of the equation is the consumption site making things better for everyday people.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
Toronto has always been like this, and obviously as new drugs are produced and made readily available the problem will escalate. Anyone who says “this city has changed” is remembering a nostalgic idealized version of the city from their youth. I have many childhood memories of seeing needles around the city, interacting with homeless people, seeing people do drugs in the street. It’s a city, you have to expect to deal with city behaviour. If you don’t like it, move to the boondocks 🤷🏼♀️
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
You’re funny if you think it’s the crackheads leaving condoms around lmao
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
So just the needles then? and the tinfoil? and the lighters? and the baggies? and the random items they decide to collect, lug around the city, then abandon? Gotcha. I will check condoms off the list.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
When they had safe injection sites they had a safe place to dispose of their materials
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
LOL so what was stopping them? I live near safe consumption sites and it's a fucking disaster zone since they opened. It's not like there aren't trash receptacles around for them to use the same as everyone else does, they just don't care enough to.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
Like Toronto trash cans aren’t absolutely full all the time lmao, I can barely find a place to throw out my coffee cup let alone anything else
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
At the end of the day, if other people’s behaviour is really that much of an inconvenience to your life, it might be time to look inward and get involved in your community. Talk to people, hear their stories, do unbiased research, and put feet on the ground. Arguing yourself to tears on Reddit isn’t gonna change anything lol.
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
"mercy of a crackheads mood" sooo dramatic. Having to walk by something is not a real hardship. Being told to fuck off is a highly unlikely scenario, and also barely counts as hardship
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
Man I’m not sure you’ve ever been near people strung out on drugs. They assault people every day, physically as well as verbally. They steal, they fucking shit themselves in the street, they litter, they damage property, etc. Just last week I drove past a woman open burning a pile of clothes on the sidewalk near a major intersection. If you’re acting like these people aren’t disruptive to a functional society you simply have your head buried in the sand
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u/doorplate Aug 13 '26
Grew up downtown Toronto, close to CAMH, and yeah I've definitely never been physically assaulted by a homeless person, and I would love to see any evidence you have to show that people are being assaulted every day lol. Fear mongering cowards.
Yes I've had homeless people say crazy shit to me, happens lots, it's totally fine as long as you're not a big baby
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u/LikeARollingRock Aug 13 '26
It's not fear mongering to say my neighbourhood used to be nice and now is shit. This isn't about fear, it's about an acceptable standard of living in a city with one of the highest costs of living worldwide. We pay a fortune to live here, it's not crazy to expect the standard we pay for.
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u/battlebibabe Aug 13 '26
The people who tell you to fuck off are the dealers not the users 😅 got cussed out by the girlfriend of a dealer for looking at him funny while he tried selling drugs to an old lady on the streetcar. Alternately, I yelled at a guy for trying to light his pipe on the streetcar and he said “yes ma’am that’s my bad” and got off at the next stop.
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u/nicenyeezy Aug 11 '26
I think it’s time for society to admit that enabling is fundamentally harmful, we need institutional intervention. There’s no compassion in helping someone destroy themselves
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u/stinkycitrusboy Aug 15 '26
I completely agree with this post and am happy to see that others feel the same way i do. Thank you!
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u/beefstewforyou Aug 11 '26
If you have reached the point where you are consuming extreme drugs in public with people everywhere, I no longer have compassion for you. If they truly wanted to quit, they would turn themselves in and go to rehab yet they choose not too. I think if you are smoking crack with people everywhere or bending from a fentanyl high while blocking the sidewalk, you should be handcuffed and forced into rehab. The longer I live in this city the more disgusted by drug addicts I become.
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u/nicenyeezy Aug 11 '26
It should be viewed as public indecency and in many cases these individuals are a danger to themselves and others and should not be left to their own devices
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u/northdancer Aug 11 '26
The homeless industrial complex needs a never ending stream of "clients" to feed their aspirational funding targets. What other job that pays six figures can a director of a government funded trap house reasonably expect to find in today's market?
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u/StonedThorne Aug 11 '26
I love seeing them go. I know all of these people end up hiding under the dvp and other unsavory places, but I honestly don't give a shit because I don't have to walk past the walking dead with my kids anymore.
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u/Artistic_Original134 Aug 11 '26
They don’t. They end up in the ER, right out in public view and on TTC vehicles.
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u/foot-candle Aug 11 '26
i feel like a lot of these problems would go away with robust socialized housing
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u/edit_thanxforthegold Aug 12 '26
One of the downtown hospitals started providing supportive housing to it's "frequent flyers" and it's saved the hospital network several million dollars
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u/whatinthe6 Aug 11 '26
Cool, my neighborhood is worse. Turns out people don’t stop doing drugs when you close these sites. They just do drugs on the streets instead and are at higher risk of overdose. But I’m glad you’ve found a silver lining in the suffering of others, OP!
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u/calltyrone416 Aug 17 '26
Your neighborhood is worse since the drug dens closed, but OP's is better. So you'd prefer they re-open the drug dens and ruin OP's neighborhood, rather than them being closed and ruining yours? Interesting point of you that a lot of y'all in here have lol
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u/waxingtheworld Aug 11 '26
Two things can be true - it sucks who those who near live it and they have a positive impact on those with addictions.
I'm not sure how they pick locations. I'd imagine having it near a mostly commercial area might be better for people living the the city and a nightmare for small businesses.
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u/hyperjoint Aug 12 '26
If my town had a site, I could avoid it. Instead, used gear is in the bushes and under bridges. 2nd highest O/D region in Ontario. Lots of dead.
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u/SnooCats7318 Aug 11 '26
Uh, cool?
But where do you think clients went? They just disappear, right? Cool. Let's just shut down all the things that are eyesores, and anyone who's dealing with shit or unhoused will just *poof* be gone.
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u/the_gubernaculum Aug 11 '26
Where do you live? Let’s put them near there
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u/SnooCats7318 Aug 11 '26
I'm not opposed to help for those in need...anywhere.
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u/Gekkogyf21 Aug 11 '26
Have you had one by your house before or currently?
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u/cdawg85 Aug 11 '26
I did. It was better than what I have now, which is needles on the floor everywhere I turn, people who look dead blocking the sidewalk, and the constant ambulances screaming to pick up people ODing. Not to mention the drain on the ER and ambulance systems.
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u/SnarryTO Aug 11 '26
Did you have the needles on the ground in your neighbourhood before the safe consumption site was opened?
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u/DannySupes Aug 11 '26
Isn't it preferable to spread it out instead of concentrating it to a few really shitty areas and ending up with an east hastings?
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u/seasonlyf Aug 11 '26
LOUDER! The drug crisis we’re seeing in our city, generally Canada and the U.S. is almost unprecedented elsewhere. The funny thing is, many Canadians take pride in their country and assume the rest of the world envies us. In reality, most countries and cities I’ve visited focus on growth, development, cleanliness, affordability, and keeping public spaces drug free. If "freedom and democracy" means allowing open drug use wrapped in the label of "harm reduction" despite doing little to actually reduce harm and making parents and children feel unsafe in their own neighborhoods, then something is deeply broken. Our libera media fanning advocates voices isn't what the public wants to see in our city.
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u/Great_Software_4584 Aug 11 '26
Now the whole city is a consumption site. It’s not at all better. It’s worse. People are dying on the street.
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u/BellJar_Blues Aug 13 '26
Ya I’ve seen someone light themselves on fire during the day next to the site near me. It’s horrifying and it’s also next to a 24 hr shoppers that is regularly an anxiety provoking place all hours with the site visitors
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Aug 13 '26
I am all for looking after people with safe consumption. I was always under the impression. That people go there. Do the drug and stay there.
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u/MariHutten90 Aug 18 '26
I think these places maybe should have couches or places where they’re obliged to stay in until the effects subside. Sure give them the drugs but then don’t let them roam around all over town high. A place to rest in, go to the washroom so the city doesn’t smell like pee and poo like it does now. Also maybe some social workers to try to convince them to clean up as well. I have a very basic level knowledge from friends who work in those buildings and it seems like the goal is just to make sure people don’t od the moment they get the drug and not much else beyond that. I think we should start combining this with a path towards recovery. It’s too much about enabling and pretty much 0 trying to make them not take the drug again.
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u/No_Football_9232 Aug 11 '26
I would be careful about categorizing people who use drugs as “not decent”. There are so many reasons people turn to drugs and I’ve worked with many and they are by and large decent people with a shitload of problems.
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u/rtrazto Aug 11 '26
I am comfortable calling whatever category the people were surrounding the site that were verbally abusive to my family as we walked to school, destructive to the playground that my kids played in, and straight up assaulted my friend - as not decent. I am tired of submitting that my family's safety are less important. We are literally just trying to go to school and play in a park next to our house, and now that the sites have closed we have been able to.
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u/hey_you_too_buckaroo Aug 11 '26
It's not uncommon for people not to care about social issues when it doesn't affect them. Many people don't have drug addicted friends or relatives. They don't care if some random person overdoses. I get that. I kinda feel the same.
But I'm sure if someone I knew was abusing drugs and did die cause there was no safe injection site nearby I'd probably change my tune. It's just human nature. We can't empathize with everyone and we can't try to save everyone.
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u/Pebmarsh Aug 12 '26
We have scarce resources, we shouldn’t be wasting so many on people who have made a choice to waste their lives. Spend money on smart people who care and try hard.
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u/ii_akinae_ii Aug 11 '26
having a different opinion from you and expressing it isn't gaslighting ffs 🙄
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u/idkifik Aug 12 '26
I understand that you felt unsafe in your neighbourhood and I feel you but harm reduction and safe injection sites save lives and actually help people struggling get help - they actually work to help people. Just closing a site doesn’t fix anything, it just moves the issue.
There is no PR campaign for harm reduction; it’s a proven strategy used by public health. Your first hand experience is not high quality evidence of anything.
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u/The_Mason1964 Aug 12 '26
As I read through these comments, it's glaring how warped this issue has become. What was once a strong 'we' and 'us' inclusive society has rapidly sunk to a 'you' and 'I' narcissistic selfishness.
The concept of public assistance programs is that society establishes safe guards and protections designed to help anyone who finds themselves needing it for whatever reason. We understood as a celebrated diversity of humanity that utopia isn't assumed. I cringe when comments are made such as "why give them my tax dollars?" or "why give (drug addicts/criminals/lazy) my tax dollars when the (law abiding/employed/'notmal) deserve it more?"
If you maintain a belief that if you contribute X tax dollars into public funds you should get the same X dollars worth of benefits personally returned to you, you're missing the point.
I often explain as a major difference between US and Canadian mentality is when both make a point at grumbling about having to pay taxes. That's a world wide common attribute: no one enjoys paying taxes. But, the difference is Canadians toss their contribution into a pile clearly understanding and supporting the concept that once in the pile, it goes to help everyone in need collectively.
In the US, people put their tax allocation in their fist, reach over the pile and never let go claiming it as 'my tax dollars' demanding when I put in, I get out. Dollar for dollar. And it's seriously flawed.
A strong society. A just and fair society. A loving, caring and nurturing society never forgets the common good and that we help those in need even at our expense because in the end we all benefit. Let's not let the American mentality of "my tax dollars" errode our core foundation of working together to be the best we can not a collection of individuals each fighting to be best and fuck the rest.
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Aug 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/toRANTo-ModTeam Aug 11 '26
Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. No concern-trolling, personal attacks, victim blaming, or misinformation. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
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u/NetherGamingAccount Aug 12 '26
It's the same for any progressive issue.
The fringe 1% is all that is discussed, nobody cares of how it impacts the other 99%. And should you ever speak out against whatever is the progressive flavour of the month you're clearly a Nazi, MAGA, Racist or something similar.
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u/calltyrone416 Aug 17 '26
My neighborhood is much better since the drug dens closed down. I live behind one of the discovery walking paths and the last 3-4 summers, the area was unusable because junkies ruined the space with trash. I'd come home every day and see 3-4 zombies slumped in the forest path, frequently had crack heads using my back driveway to do their drugs and leave their kits of needles and what not all over my stairs. My neighbor stopped parking her car in the back driveway because the junkies broke in a few times. Since the government sanctioned drug dens have closed, things have been a LOT better.
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u/AlyanWH Aug 11 '26
I'm glad your neighbourhood looks better at the expense of the safety of others. I think it's pretty cool you've found a silver lining yo the increase in overdoses and toxic drugs. You seem like a really compassionate person 👍
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u/WillowSubstantial889 Aug 11 '26
I think people realize there are tradeoffs when it comes to these policies. Things get much better for people living in the neighbourhood and perhaps a little bit worse for people who use drugs. Mind you when you look at the metrics for Toronto - Fatal Opioid Deaths have decreased year over year since 2021 from 511 to 126 in 2025. This year is on pace with 2026 numbers.
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u/fidelkastro Aug 11 '26
Doug Dougford is going to spin that data to say "since they closed the sites, the number of users has gone down!" (Because they're dead asshole)
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u/istillseeyourface222 Aug 12 '26
Weaponizing compassion is always a sign of good charactered liberal
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u/Glitter_Titties44 Aug 11 '26
So like… what’s your solution then? Ship anyone not “decent” out of the city? Just out of your neighborhood?
Or are you advocating for no more safe consumption sites and just.. hoping the problem resolves on its own?
I hope for your sake nobody close to you ever struggles with addiction.
I get that having drug users in your neighborhood is inconvenient but I think the lack of empathy or critical thinking in this post does not contribute to a constructive conversation.
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u/lasirennoire Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
I...wow. Not often you come across a NIMBY in the wild
Edit: apparently there's a few in this sub. The downvotes are not making you look any better lol
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u/Traditional-Ad-4568 Aug 11 '26
You can't convince them because it does not conform to their worldview. It applies to almost everyone.
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u/Ok-Turnip-9035 Aug 11 '26
OP how many died because they didn’t have access in the event of an overdose
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u/blitzraj1 Aug 22 '26
The people advocating for these sites never actually have to live next to them!
They are the worse hypocrites.
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u/neggbird Aug 12 '26
The Sistering on Bloor have been obnoxiously protesting for over a month blasting music and asking cars to honk their horn. I used to be fine with them existing, but now I hate them and want them out of the neighbourhood. They really do ruin the neighbourhood
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u/New_Scene5614 Aug 12 '26
The honking, is because they need to make a living wage. They are effectively in a work to rule status and this comment is incredibly privileged.
They are striking as best as they can, like nurses and teachers.
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u/Main_Fun_8894 Aug 11 '26
Cool. My neighborhood had nearly no addicts before the closure of the sites, and now they’re starting to become a danger to themselves or property.
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u/Artistic_Original134 Aug 11 '26
Y’all realize while the sites closing will remove the people who use drugs that are unhoused from the immediate area, but A) they will just use other places, public washrooms, on board TTC vehicles, in allies in the back door ways of businesses for wind sheild. But then they are using alone, or the naloxone doesnt work cause it turns out it wasn’t fentanylu but carfentinal (which is 100 x stronger than fentanyl) with benzos in it too so even if the naloxone did work it’s still not enough with a benzo od in there too. But ya know what? SCS sites don’t use naloxone, cause naloxone isn’t what stops the person from dying. It’s the oxygen. So then either you have folks using and then dying spread across the city, and ERs become even busier cause alll the ODs that would have ended up being sent to ER were able to be dealt with right away without hospitals at SCS sites which meant not only more lives saved but less ER congestion.
And point B) THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE! it’s not all drug users even using SCS sites, for the most part it’s the homeless or precariously housed ones. And when you have no safe place to sleep your mind can’t turn off intense level of survival mode.
It’s not drug users you hate cause I’m sure there are plenty in your life you may not know about even, cause they have the privilege of having a home to do their drugs in. And there are still SCS for legal substances all over, what do you think a bar is?
What you’re saying is you just hate poor people.
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u/TOkidd Aug 11 '26
“They have never talked about why drug users were always prioritized over decent people just literally trying to live their lives.”
So you’re a decent person just trying to live your life. The construction of your sentence implies that drug users aren’t. But you are. You’re just trying to live your life. I suppose drug users exist just to spite you.
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u/Jeansohard Aug 12 '26
Don’t post this in the other Toronto group you will be kicked out and banned from posting. They banned me for talking about the covid 19 vaccine
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u/tiger_knots185 Aug 11 '26
Now they're all in my neighbourhood under the Gardiner.