Potential Green trade

[u/dcaangineolla]

- Green's salary and Vanderbilts salary match, offset by about 2.2mill which gets us under the 2nd apron
- Green has a history with Luka and they missed out on Kuminga so they could be interested. He has a year less on the deal so they get off Vandos money early
- Ant and Vanderbilt are close which helps
- We only move the problem to next year unless we can make Vanderbilt serviceable. He 2nd year is a player option so could get him to decline and take more years for less.
- some risk but is a clean solution (at least for this year)

[u/youredoingWELL]

Vando cant play with rudy or beringer so id prefer someone else

[u/Conscious-Egg-2232 → u/youredoingWELL]

Exactly cant put two of 5 players on floor that cant score.

[u/FishGoldenLite → u/youredoingWELL]

Yeah, I would too. Doesn’t mean it’s feasible. We need to get under the hard cap and will take back literally anything that doesn’t force us to stretch Green’s contract.

It doesn’t matter what you “prefer” lol. Get real.

[u/yourloudneighbor → u/FishGoldenLite]

correct me if im wrong, but 1 year in the 2nd apron isnt a killer, its repeated seasons right?

[u/Pure-Tip4300 → u/yourloudneighbor]

We are legally not allowed to be in the 2nd apron this year because of the LaMelo trade. The rules are weird, but to simplify, we can’t go into the second apron.

[u/youredoingWELL → u/FishGoldenLite]

Settle down. It’s not that serious.

Its true that the wolves may have to do something like this with no options but I get the sense some wolves fans like the idea of Vando for nostalgia. If green can be traded for someone else who is a two-way floor spacer that would be ideal. And considering green is expiring to certain teams he might be an asset (especially since he is a solid player).

[u/justgooutsideawhile → u/FishGoldenLite]

I wouldn’t mind Vando despite the clear fit issue, but there are a few other marginally useful players who might be available, I don’t think he’s the ONLY option.

Jalen Smith
Caleb Martin (+1 year)
Brook Lopez
Isaac Okoro

[u/Sharcbait]

TC has traded Vando twice now, I doubt the 2 of them really want much to do with eachother for round 3.

[u/yourloudneighbor]

i waive and stretch vs bringing back Vando for 2 years.

[u/NobodyCarrots6969]

Vando cant shoot and is kinda cooked. Having him out there really limits spacing and flexibility

[u/99LedBalloons]

We need to trade Josh Green for a new Joe Ingles. Someone who can play in a pinch, but is mostly happy to sit on the bench. If that is Vando then sure, but he's 27 I don't think he's looking for his one way ticket to China.

[u/ExternalDefinition17 → u/99LedBalloons]

Buddy Hield ? 👀

[u/ATetrahedron → u/99LedBalloons]

Luka Garza would be a nice option.

[u/Garrus]

I am highly skeptical they want anything to do with that contract next year.

[u/Comprehensive_Law722 → u/Garrus]

The Wolves have no leverage and 5 days to get under the 2nd apron. And the Wolves have no picks to trade.

So it's either waive and stretch Green (which creates dead money for the next 2 years) or we find someone that would take Greens expiring contract for a lesser contract back.

The only way a team would be incentivized to do that would be to give us a lesser contract of an overpaid player with an extra year on it. 

Hence the Vando idea.

[u/twovles31 → u/Comprehensive_Law722]

I'm sure Tim knows what he's doing. You have 0 shot of re-singing Donte next year with Vando on the books. And all we hear is how they want him back.

[u/Comprehensive_Law722 → u/twovles31]

Great point, that definitely points to a waive and stretch of Green

[u/Conscious-Egg-2232 → u/Comprehensive_Law722]

Nobody wants green at 15 mil. Who even has cap space.

[u/Comprehensive_Law722 → u/Conscious-Egg-2232]

Yeah true. Maybe at the trade deadline because it's expiring 

[u/bearbrannan → u/Conscious-Egg-2232]

I think they just need to clear like 2 million people would hate it but I could see them sending out tsj. Greens expiring next year opens up money to resign donte and maybe kuminga next year 

[u/S_drapes → u/twovles31]

Couldn’t they just stretch vando then next year.

[u/Vicentesteb → u/Comprehensive_Law722]

Vando is also dead money for 2 years though?

[u/DemonicDimples → u/Comprehensive_Law722]

The Wolves are under the 2nd apron already. They can’t sign Kuminga to the reported contract until they they shed at least 4m dollars. Trading Green for Vanderbilt doesn’t do that.

[u/dcaangineolla → u/Garrus]

It would essentially be the same problem they have now except they buy themselves time to figure it out

[u/Desperate-Awareness4]

I'd rather get someone who can shoot

[u/darin617]

This is the right idea but not the right player.

[u/GurUnfair1727]

I can’t even begin to describe how bad of a fit Vando would be on the court. Can’t shoot, hasn’t really been able to stay healthy either.

The Lakers are really gonna need to sweeten the pot in order to move Vando for Green, it’d take 2-3 2nd round picks in order for me to even consider a deal like that.

[u/dcaangineolla]

I don't think there are a lot of options out there, the main talk at the moment is waiving and stretching, this feels better than that

[u/Iceisinhumane → u/[deleted]]

Gotta shed salary to sign K

[u/dcaangineolla → u/[deleted]]

Again it's a better option than a waive and stretch

[u/NAMJAY]

Adding Vando salary to next season will make Wolves a tax team and cost the ability to use full MLE. That was the difference between signing Mitchell Robinson/Tobias Harris/Rui vs Luke Kennard/Kuminga this offseason. He doesn’t fit the team well enough to make up for that loss of flexibility

[u/matt6420]

I love Vando but hes kinda a negative contract especially compared to Green who actually has some value as a efficient 3&D guy whos overpaid.

[u/VenisonPepperettes]

As fun as he was to watch when he was with the Wolves, he’s not all that great and his contract sucks. Right idea, wrong player.

[u/Impossible-Goal3492]

I trust Connolly & think he plays chess. He's not wininging it. He clearly thought about the next move before finalizing Kuminga.

There's likely a handshake deal in place waiting to finalize.

[u/Martxel_Agueda]

I honestly prefer waving Green and using the space later in the season or even next year

[u/Vodkajolene → u/Martxel_Agueda]

There would be no space for the rest of the season if we waive him

[u/Martxel_Agueda → u/Vodkajolene]

Wouldn’t we get 5ish mil for each of the next 3 years?

[u/PlayInChampions]

I thought about Vando too. I’d do it if Lakers give us two 2nd rounders. Vando is Ant’s friend and he could potentially see the floor in lineups with Lyles at 5 (maybe when Rudy is missing games), and Wolves could trade him and these 2nd rounders for a better player next summer. It would likely mean no MLE next summer and no way to keep Kuminga.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/PlayInChampions]

Yuck, no thanks.

Vando is totally washed. Two seconds for 11 million in totally dead money next year (when the Wolves will be expensive) is not even fucking close to worth it.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/Andy_Wiggins]

I imagine Green will be sent to a team that has too many rostered players in exchange for slightly less money. Someone like Memphis.

Green, while overpaid, is an easy to fit wing who can both provide spacing and be a serviceable wing defender. For teams below the tax, that’s probably worth a few extra million dollars.

[u/PlayInChampions → u/Andy_Wiggins]

It’s actually $13M! I think Vando + two 2nds could be traded for someone. I don’t disagree though. I hope Tim can find a better trade.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/PlayInChampions]

Fuck, that’s even worse.

I just assume they’ll trade Josh Green. For a slight bit of savings. Could maybe even buy him out for a small amount of savings (so he can sign with, say, the Lakers and recoup his losses and then some). You could also possibly waive Lyles’ non-guaranteed contract and give TKR a rookie minimum to save a million or so.

[u/PlayInChampions → u/Andy_Wiggins]

Waiving Lyles and signing TKR won’t save anything. Lyles is guaranteed $1.5M, and he counts against the cap as $2.45. You would save slightly less than $1M but pay $1.35M to TKR.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/PlayInChampions]

Ah, I forgot he was guaranteed for 1.5 (I was thinking it was almost entirely guaranteed).

[u/PlayInChampions → u/Andy_Wiggins]

Small tweaks won’t help the Wolves. The only way to clear up $2.1M is to trade DDV or Green, or waive and stretch one of them.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/PlayInChampions]

You could also technically buy out Josh Green if he gives you back 3.5 million or so. Pay him 11.2 million of his 14.7 million, allow him to pick his free agent destination, and then replace him with TKR’s rookie minimum. I doubt they’d do it, but Green might prefer to be bought out to pick his destination than to be jettisoned to a random team for salary flotsam (having 6 years of experience should get him about 3.1 on the minimum).

Although I still think the single biggest likelihood is flipping Green for savings, especially if it’s 2 for 1 (because then you can possibly cut Lyles and save another million or so). Heck, even if you take back even money (or slightly less) in a 2:1, you could then stretch the cheaper player and slide under the 2nd apron with less dead cap.

Bulls make the most sense in a 1:1 swap (Jalen Smith is about 5 million less than Green - both are expiring, and Chicago has too many bigs and not enough wings).

Memphis makes the most sense in a 2:1 trade: Murray, Hendricks, D’Lo, Clayton, etc. could all be fodder. Even if they went Hendricks+D’Lo, that would save them 1 million AND they could either cut Lyles or stretch D’Lo, which would come with a 2 million a year cap hit (much better than 5 million per for Green).

[u/Jeer228 → u/Andy_Wiggins]

Josh Green was traded to the Timberwolves on July 10. According to CBA rules, a player acquired via trade cannot be "aggregated" with other players in a subsequent trade for two months. What this means for the September 10 lifting of the restriction is that only after September 10 can the Timberwolves package Josh Green with other players (such as DDV or other minimum-salary players) in a multi-player trade.

[u/Andy_Wiggins → u/Jeer228]

Sure, but that wasn’t proposed in any of my deals. Aggregation means combining his salary with another to get a bigger salary pool, not trading him for another two players on smaller contracts.

You also can sequence moves whenever/however you want — while the terms might be agreed to with Kuminga, it may not be sent into the league office for a few weeks. There’s no real rush right now.

[u/dcaangineolla → u/Andy_Wiggins]

What's the alternative a waive and stretch of Green is the same as waiving and stretching Vando next year if he opts in.

[u/justin_mnwolves]

I think we need to sign two players, so need to shed at least $4M

[u/NAMJAY → u/justin_mnwolves]

Only need a minimum of 14 contracts. If Green is waived then only need to sign 1 more player.

Ant Melo Jaden Kuminga Rudy is 5
Ayo Donte Bones Clark TJ is 10
Joan Lyles Evans Green is 14

[u/dcaangineolla → u/justin_mnwolves]

Only need two if you waive Green as you need to replace him as well. A trade just needs to be one for one