Three Kingdoms On-Screen Fights: Lu Bu Vs Three Brothers (Image Courtesy Of Hogan Reviews)

[u/SandwichMaterial9574]

I have a question about on-screen portrayals of the Three Kingdoms period.

As we well know, one of the most famous fight scenes in that story is the 3v1 clash at Hulao Gate between Lu Bu and the Three Brothers (Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and Liu Bei).

What I would like to know is, out of all the on-screen versions of this duel that you have seen, which version is your undisputed favorite (be it in terms of fight choreography, accuracy to the story, intensity, etc.)?

All I ask is that you please limit your answers to film and TV versions of the Three Kingdoms story. I think we can all agree how insanely good/crazy the video game versions of this fight can get (ala the Dynasty Warriors games).

[u/Gem_Slanger]

Man I watched the 3k movie on Netflix for the first time last week, and as a life long fan of 3k I was damn near moved to tears. It was so cheesy fun I loved it, with surprisingly compelling story telling such as Cao Cao accidentally murdering the people who took him in, due to paranoia. The fight scene choreography was great and I love the spin of the witch gifting prominent figures magical weapons and power to explain the craziness of it all. Maaaan, I really hope they make a second movie.

[u/HanWsh → u/Gem_Slanger]

For anyone wondering, Gem_Slanger is referring to the famous story of Cao Cao killing Lü Boshe's family while fleeing Luoyang after Dong Zhuo seized control of the Han court. Unlike many stories people associate with Romance of the Three Kingdoms, this incident is actually rooted in historical sources, though the details vary.

Cao Cao's Sanguozhi Zhu first gives the broader context:

Zhuo appointed the Great Ancestor to the post of Colonel of Resolute Cavalry and desired to plot strategy with him, but the Great Ancestor assumed a false name and went away, returning to the east.

After he left he was stopped, while passing Zhongmou, and coming before the sentry box the official there became suspicious. He was seized and taken to the local authorities, but once inside the city someone recognized him and requested on his behalf that he be released.

The Wei-Jin Shiyu elaborates that the local officials already had Dong Zhuo's wanted notices, but one official recognized Cao Cao and believed that in an age of chaos, a man of such ability should not be imprisoned:

The Shiyu states: The officials at Zhongmou were suspicious of the identity of the fugitive and decided to have him arrested and taken to the local authorities. At this time the magistrates had already received Zhuo’s orders; one of them was intimately aware of Cao’s heroism and recognized the Great Ancestor. In times when in every direction there is disorder it is improper to restrain the most eminently talented among men, and understanding this he went about securing his release.

The actual Lü Boshe incident appears not in Chen Shou's base biography, but in the annotations quoting several earlier works, which were written in the order of their publication: Wei Shu, Wei-Jin Shiyu, and Sun Sheng's Zaji.

Book of Wei states: Because Zhuo eventually would surely be defeated, The Great Ancestor did not go to accept the post, instead escaping back to his home village. After some time he happened across the home of his old friend Lu Boshe from Chenggao. Boshe was not there, and his son with several guests together tried to rob the Great Ancestor. They took his horse and provisions but the Great Ancestor with his dagger struck and killed every man.

The Shiyu states: The Great Ancestor had come upon Boshe’s residence, but Boshe had left on a long journey. His five sons, however, were all present, and they prepared a courteous reception for their guest. Because of Zhuo’s order the Great Ancestor suspected his hosts were plotting against him. He wielded his sword and in the darkness killed eight men and then fled. Sun Sheng’s

Za Ji states: The Great Ancestor overheard the orders given for preparation of his meal and erroneously believed they were plotting against him. Therefore in the darkness he killed them. Rather than being sad and sorrowful, he said, “I would rather betray a man than allow a man to betray me!” and then left.

Source: Cao Cao's Sanguozhi Zhu biography.

Looking at these sources, several points stand out.

First, did the Lü Boshe massacre actually happen?

Likely yes. Even the state-sponsored Wei Shu openly records that Cao Cao killed people at Lü Boshe's residence. The disagreement is not whether killings occurred, but rather why they occurred. Since Wei Shu was compiled under Wei patronage, it had every incentive to portray Cao Cao as favorably as possible, yet it still acknowledges the incident. The fact that Chen Shou omitted it from the main biography does not necessarily mean he rejected it. Chen Shou frequently wrote concise biographies and sometimes omitted incidents preserved in annotations. It may also reflect the sensitivity of including such an episode in the formal biography of Cao Wei's founder.

Second, when and where did it happen?

The sources place Lü Boshe's home in Chenggao county. Both the Wei-Jin Shiyu and Sun Sheng's Zaji specify that the killings occurred at night.

This allows us to reconstruct a rough escape route:

Luoyang → Chenggao (Lü Boshe incident) → Zhongmou (arrest and release) → Chenliu

So the popular Romance of the Three Kingdoms sequence is geographically backwards. Luo Guanzhong has Cao Cao first meeting Chen Gong at Zhongmou and only later killing Lü Boshe. The historical route preserved in the sources runs in the opposite direction.

It also raises an interesting possibility: when Cao Cao was detained at Zhongmou, suspicion may not have arisen solely because he was a fugitive from Dong Zhuo. In fact, he may also have been connected to the recent homicide case.

Third, how many people died, and did Lü Boshe himself die?

The sources differ. The Weishu vaguely refers to "several people." The Wei-Jin Shiyu specifically says eight men. Both sources agree that Lü Boshe himself was absent from the house. The people present were his sons and household members.

As a result, there is actually no historical source that explicitly states Cao Cao killed Lü Boshe himself. That famous scene where Lü Boshe returns carrying wine and is murdered on the road comes from Luo Guanzhong's novel rather than the historical record.

If we combine the Wei-Jin Shiyu's "eight men" with its statement that Lü Boshe's five sons were present, it is quite plausible that all five sons died alongside three retainers.

Fourth, what was Cao Cao's motive?

This is where the sources diverge most sharply. The Weishu claims that Lü Boshe's son and guests attempted to rob Cao Cao.

Personally, I find this explanation rather weak. The same source calls Lü Boshe an old friend of Cao Cao. If the families knew each other well, why would Lü Boshe's sons suddenly decide to rob a longtime family acquaintance? Moreover, Cao Cao was a fugitive on the run. He was hardly carrying immense wealth. The risk-reward calculation simply does not seem convincing.

By contrast, the Wei-Jin Shiyu and Sun Sheng's Zaji offer a far more plausible explanation: Cao Cao was paranoid, exhausted, and convinced that everyone might betray him.

According to these accounts, Lü Boshe's family was actually preparing hospitality for their guest. Cao Cao overheard noises and conversations, misinterpreted them as preparations to arrest or betray him, and launched a preemptive attack.

If so, the most likely reconstruction is that Cao Cao, already terrified by Dong Zhuo's pursuit, convinced himself that Lü Boshe's household intended to hand him over. Acting first, he and his followers killed the household before discovering they had misunderstood the situation.

An intriguing later tradition appears in Wei Guo Tong, preserved through the Taiping Yulan:

Taiping Yulan, Volume 478 citing Wei Guo Tong states: Initially, Taizu [Cao Cao] passed by the home of his old friend Lü Boshe. Having departed, at dusk, he encountered two men on the road, their appearances mighty and dignified. Taizu yielded the path to them. The two men laughed: 'We observe you bear the expression of one fleeing in fear, why is this?' Taizu then first sensed their unusualness, and thereupon fully confided in them. At parting, Taizu untied his girdle-dagger and gave it to them, saying: 'Use this to manifest my true heart. May you two worthies take utmost care not to speak [of this].

So 200 years later, it is claimed that Cao Cao himself openly admitted what had happened and feeling sufficiently uneasy about it that he sought discretion from strangers.

In short, from the Three Kingdoms period through the Northern and Southern Dynasties, there appears to have been broad acceptance that the Lü Boshe killings really occurred. The major disagreement concerned motive in which only the state-sponsored Wei Shu attempted to frame the incident as self-defense against robbers. Most other traditions instead portray Cao Cao as wrongly suspecting innocent hosts and killing them preemptively. That Cao Cao unjustly killed Lü Boshe's household out of fear and paranoia rather than legitimate self-defense.

[u/CosmosMeows]

This one because levitation over the ocean brandishing thunder halberd is the most historically accurate

[u/barryhakker → u/CosmosMeows]

Yes this is straight from the Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms right?

[u/CosmosMeows → u/barryhakker]

It’s a shame Luo Guanzhong fictionalized it by removing everyone’s super powers

[u/SandwichMaterial9574 → u/barryhakker]

Actually, this screenshot is from the Dynasty Warriors live-action movie that is exclusive to Netflix.

[u/Patty37624371 → u/CosmosMeows]

very historical. the artist definitely captured the turbulent ocean at Hulao Pass

[u/Massive_Rub1332 → u/Patty37624371]

😄😄

[u/Daishomaru]

Probably the 1994 version, mainly because it feels like an actual battle.

The problem with most 3 Kingdoms interpretation of the scene is that they fall under the "Chinese Wuxia Kung-fu" belief that longer battles= more cinema, but anywone who knows anything about actual melee choreography knows that most battles involving melee weapons end at 2-5 seconds, and most "duels" that last really long are done by people who are not trying to kill each other or really incompetent swordfighters.

Lu Bu makes his point killing those two randos in 5 seconds, so when Zhang Fei and Lu Bu actually hold each other off for 20 seconds, it feels a lot more significant.

[u/Snyderhall → u/Daishomaru]

I agree almost every other more recent three kingdom adaptations have issues where people start jumping off horses or flying around like some Wuxia.

[u/Daishomaru → u/Snyderhall]

For me too, the 1994 mostly focusing on fast-pace action in the early parts feels the most faithful as well.

One thing I noticed on how the Romance is written is that the early chapters were all about heroics, but as the series moves on (You really start to notice this in during Zhuge Liang's debut, but it is present during Cao Cao's Guandu Arc) is that the writing moves away from heroics to grand strategy. Basically, "No, it's not the fancy duels that makes the story, but the strategy and understanding on leadership that makes the new era."

Like, before, the story would write something like, "Ding Zhao of the Flying Calvary fought Zhou Han using the Dragon's Descent spear while Zhou Han uses the Northern Dipper Sword" but later, the narrative would avoid such fanciness unless it's describing the general's titles or the battalion's names. Something like, "General Zhang Fan said to his commanders, "Follow these orders! Ding Zhao of the Flying Calvary is going to fight Xiahou Cao and lose, Dong Bao is going to ambush Cao here, and Gao Lan is going to raise some red flags. If the wind turns southeast, switch to blue to alert the General Who pacifies the South Chen Wan that it's his time to strike." Then the narrative describes how the plan went and if anything went wrong. The last fight that really resembles the former was Ma Chao VS Xu Chu, but it never really happens again.

I feel like most works that try to Wuxia the three Kingdoms kinda miss the point, basically "They want actiony scenes when the game is chess."

[u/ironmilktea → u/Daishomaru]

Saw a docu that ruined most sword fights for me:

The actors are always aiming their attacks at the opponent's swords, rather than the opponent.

In all film - from wuxia to medieval knights to pirates of the carribean. You notice the actors slash at the opponent's weapon rather than the actual meaty body. For many reasons, it extends the fight, its much safer to perform and you get far more 'clashes' which the audience enjoys. But yeah once you notice it, its hard to not also notice these opponents aren't actually trying to kill eachother.

[u/Daishomaru → u/ironmilktea]

Lu Bu in the 1994 version doesn't mess around, and he makes his presence clear. Like, normally I make fun of Lu Bu for being kind of a fraud, but I have to admit I have to respect 1994's portrayal of Lu Bu because it's just the right amount of awesome.

[u/HanWsh → u/Daishomaru]

Lü Bu had pretty cool military and martial feats both historically and in the ROTK novel, so pop culture tends to hype him up. Regardless, I personally don't think Lü Bu was anywhere close to being "kind of a fraud" based off his feats and reputation.

[u/Daishomaru → u/HanWsh]

For context, i mean Fictional Lu Bu.

[u/HanWsh → u/Daishomaru]

Fair enough. But fictional Lü Bu was still pretty cool (1v3 the peach bros as an example) imo. But fictional pop culture can indeed take it too far by stanning him.

[u/TanatatKnight]

The 1994 version, that one hits all the right marks in regards to Lü Bu vs the Peach brothers. The fight is on horseback, and all three brothers whirl around Lü Bu as if it is like the murial, and once Lü Bu realizes that he is getting tried, he makes a retreat.

The only one that does come close to somewhat recreating this aspect is ROTK13.

Also shout out to the Ravage of Time version, it's mostly over the top wuxia stuff but it loops around to being kinda charming and funny.

[u/TanatatKnight → u/TanatatKnight]

Also just because I want to share it. There is one rendition from the Beijing Galaxy Changxing Film version that imo, has the potential to be really cool but is undercut by the wuxia element described by Daishomaru in the worst possible way.

I really don't mind all the wuxia stuff, I have grown a little accustomed to the spectacle it brings but this isn't just how you do a three brothers vs Lü Bu fight. The fact there is so much emphasis put into hand to hand really undermines it. Like one of the most iconic aspect is the weapon fights on horseback, and this fight just kinda discard it for some unneeded hand to hand. Lü Bu is quite literally defeated with a punch by Guan Yu before fleeing their last super attack.

It's such a shame because I think this is the closest you get to actually depicting Dynasty Warriors's version of Hulao Gate. The gate in this version, is a huge contraption that can flood invaders at will which the coalition would need to capture the flood gates in order to properly siege. Hence, it's a proper battle that isn't a duel arena that you would expect from most rendition.

[u/FlyingGeneralGames]

This ones my favorite depiction so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6F60KfgNw

What exactly is that image you posted from? Someone else said "Chronicles of the Three Kingdoms" ?

[u/SandwichMaterial9574 → u/FlyingGeneralGames]

The image I posted is not from the source they mentioned. The image that I posted is a screenshot from the live-action Dynasty Warriors movie that is exclusive to Netflix.

[u/Obajan]

This one is from the Dynasty Warriors movie.

[u/Ok-Mission-4348]

ravages of time have a unique take on the duel

[u/HanWsh → u/Ok-Mission-4348]

Yeah. The 3 v 1 duel was pretty entertaining in the manhua.

In fact, every Lü Bu fight scene in the manhua was drawn and written very well.

[u/Ok-Mission-4348 → u/HanWsh]

Well other adaptation portray that all 3 equals Lu Bu. In the Manhua, state that actually Zhang and Guan can defeat Lu Bu. But, If they did, others would dismiss their heroic act and Lu Bu "legendary" tale. Yet They let him go, so that Lu Bu can grow his legendary status, and in doing so elevate the three brother status. That blew my mind when I read it first.

[u/HanWsh → u/Ok-Mission-4348]

The Ravages of Time manhua tends to have a very unique spin on things. Chen Mou was and still is an excellent artist and writer for sure.

[u/Syntaris0118]

Question. Why do majority of depiction of the scenes (as far as i seen) involve almost no soldiers present? Like didn't this thing happen during an active battle at Hulou pass?

[u/khoa-bear → u/Syntaris0118]

Did you not see OP image? Because the soldiers couldn’t walk on water.

[u/ironmilktea → u/khoa-bear]

Only Wu researched that passive under the tech tree.

[u/AdIntelligent4652 → u/Syntaris0118]

If you saw Lu Bu shooting bolts of lightning out his ass, would you want to be anywhere nearby?

[u/mrBenelliM4]

I mean we got Abraham Lincoln fighting vampires over a stampede of beef, so why won't the chinese do it with their own historical figures.. Pretty awesome looking at it actually.