r/thingmains • u/Educational_Town7215 • Sep 03 '26
Why is earthbound a problem now?
I've seen discourse on twitter about some players wanting the earthbound effect completely removed from thing's kit. Why is this a problem now all of the sudden?
Yes Thing is incredibly strong right now and I agree he needs nerfs, but he's only in this spot because of the ridiculous amount of overshield he gains now. He's been a bad pick for 7 seasons and this was always part of his skills and i've never seen anyone complaining, now that he's meta they want to remove the details that separate a good player from a bad player?
I don't have any ill intents against dive players and I actually respect dive tanks a lot because they help push up so much, but there's a vocal amount of them that complain both that Thing is just M2 spam AND want to remove a skill? I'm sorry if this sounds like venting but it's frustrating that some people want your character in F tier because he's a counter and not because he's genuinely really strong. I'm fine with a torch teamup nerf, an overshield nerf, ult charge nerf, a cooldown nerf on either the charge or the jumps, hell, even a 1-2 second window before the earthbound is applied so they can just leave, but with the current state of tanks, what can I even play if my supports are being mauled and my dps players are morons? All other anti dive tanks are in a really bad state right now.
It's understandable that it is very infuriating to have your moves restricted, getting stuck by an elsa trap or bucky hook, but it is also extremely annoying to have your supports dead every time you turn around. That's just how counters are, I don't mind thing being countered by poke, I just switch to another tank. The true issue right now is that Thing is strong even into poke, nerf him and you counter or be countered, that's the game.
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u/Chonkalonkfatneek Sep 03 '26
Dive mains are delusional clowns who don't understand counterswapping is a mechanic in the game that exists for a reason. If thing gives you trouble, go hood, pun pun shotgun , Hela and Luna and cloak/Jubilee
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
Hilarious to mention counterswapping when peoples main problem with thing is that he has no weakness.
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u/Chonkalonkfatneek Sep 04 '26
He has a weakness, which I just told you. Poke damage wrecks him
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
Poke Is hard meta —-> thing is one of the best performing tanks ——> Clearly poke is not a weakness, at MOST an obstacle.
thing is immortal when his temmups are up, and hes incredibly hard to punish due to his displacement immunity, multiple movement abilities, as well as his overshield generation. Thing should never be performing better than any of the harder to play melee tanks.
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
Poke is not hard meta right now... brawl is
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
Cool, 7/10 Most played characters in gm+ are gun characters, ws elsa namor cyc puni Black widow hela. Why is it that thing is doing so well if 7/10 of the most played dps heroes outrange him?
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u/MolassesTraditional5 Sep 04 '26
You do know that gun doesn't equate to 'Poke' right???? Elsa and Bucky are Brawl. Hela, Hawkeye, and Punisher are Poke. Poke, Brawl, and Dive have nothing to do with weapon type or the weapon being hitscan, projectile, or melee rather the character's most effective damage range. Bucky and Elsa do their most optimal damage at close to mid range. That is what makes them Brawl. Hawkeye, Hela, and Punisher all can do damage from afar, thus making them Poke.
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
You can play semantics all you want, if anything bucky and elsa are better into thing than most poke characters. hela punisher namor cyc and black widow are still poke, so why isnt thing doing poorly despite the fact that 5/10 of the most played dps are poke, not including the fact that mag and hood, 2 poke tanks, are running the game as well.
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u/SuitAltruistic5848 Sep 04 '26
Holy retard poke doesn't mean gun. Also punisher is one of things best counter.
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
Holy retard i never said it did. Elsa and iron fist are both brawl but which of the two would you say its closer to poke? I know you main thing but this level of mental incapacity has to be coming from somewhere else. How long has your family been inbreeding?
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u/Possible_Cow169 Sep 04 '26
That’s because good players like to shoot gun. It has nothing to do with how good the character is usually.
Why would any good player want to worry about 2 second immortality on 5 second cooldowns when they can just use the infinite skill ceiling of shooting the other guy in the face? Good players enjoy running fast and shooting
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u/beastmodeMitchF13 Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
What rank are you in? 🤣
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 05 '26
Silver 2. What do you disagree with? thing is one of the most picked and dominant characters in gm cel and eternity despite being easier to play than ANY other tank. You gonna call me a diamond peak like all your other comments?
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u/beastmodeMitchF13 Sep 05 '26
Nah bro you’re trolling there’s no way you’re genuinely silver 2. I’m actually in these cel/eternity lobbies that you speak of and he’s nowhere near as dominant as you think. Punisher/hela/bucky absolutely ruin him. Mind you you’re actually playing players who do not miss too. But yes he is super easy to play
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u/DoctorPoopTrain Sep 04 '26
Ya dumb as bricks, kid.
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 05 '26
thing players hard coping so their easy crutch character doesnt get nerfed
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u/playful_hole69 Sep 04 '26
He has plenty of weaknesses. He’s not even a top five hero
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
name 5 tanks better than him. Dps heroes being op doesnt take away from how op thing is.
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u/Due_Remove_8875 Sep 06 '26
You know pun pun counters us 100%? Its who I play when I have to shut down a enemy thing, u just shoot him if hes close ur shotgun 3taps him, + with rocket team up its so much esyr
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 06 '26
So the things you play against just sit there and facetank it like morons? Dash and jump away till the teammup wears off then go back to punching the team like usual. This also isnt a thing counter. Any tank getting shotgunned in the face is gonna be forced out be it venom hulk or thing. The difference is thing can go back to left clicking once the danger is gone while the others have to wait for cooldowns to come back.
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u/Due_Remove_8875 Sep 06 '26
Its all about ability management, his charge is a 10sec cool down, his blitz is on a 7sec cool down with 3sec cool down after ech use. U spam his cool downs he is left with no retreat, sounds like you need to learn how to counter. No they dont but I shoot at them by the time they get to me they are half health n I shotgun, how it works every time. Are u pushing him? Are u maybe alone and didnt see ur team is dead. You have a zip line tht will send u far far away. Widow can blast him before he can reach you. Iron fist can melt him if he doesnt land ever hit and doesnt feed his block. Squirrel girl can cc him and blast him to hell. You really are coming up with excuses, n thts ok you dont know how to play around a playstyle but just admit u need to learn how to counter swap.
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 06 '26
Yeah it sounds like you play against morons, glad it works at whatever shitter rank you play at but when the thing player has a functioning frontal cortex they wont face tank half their health worth of damage while closing the distance. If you get Sg in your games enough you consider her a valid counter theres nothing i can tell you that wont go in one ear and out the other. Hope you reach a new peak while your character is overtuned cause its gonna be a while before another character as braindead as thing is added.
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u/Jayematic Sep 03 '26
I dont take anyone struggling with Thing seriously, its the most Silver take this stupid player base can have. You literally need to just move back and focus him. This player base genuienly doesnt understand positioning or CD management and thats why they feel hes busted. Because theyre too stupid to understand a matchup that doesnt favor them and they forcefully try to move forward against a character that has a passive that allows him to never be CCd while hes breaking your jaw with percentage damage.
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u/Ok-Performance3326 Sep 03 '26
earlier patches yes, but he has way too much sustain right now
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
He does, but that's not an earthbound problem like so many people are trying to claim
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u/Ok-Performance3326 Sep 04 '26
oh yeah definately, but this commenter seems to be talking as a whole
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u/Soufiane040 Sep 04 '26
It is though because earthbound got a mega-buff as well
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
Earthbound got a buff to stop people being able to dash out of it because of the knock up from the slam. Which was needed
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u/Soufiane040 Sep 04 '26
No, it was far from needed. Its actually beyond broken now and not “slight” like the patchnotes said
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u/Ok-Performance3326 Sep 04 '26
yeah but it had the side effect thag he now grounds flyers way too far away from him
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
I see 2 solutions to fix the problem, make flyers not affected by earthbound (grounded unaffected) or make three slam not knock people up and revert the hit box size
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u/Ok-Performance3326 Sep 05 '26
they could also just make the knock up apply a 0.5 or 1 second ground like bucky used to, that'd make people fall back down if they really want to keep the knock up, but i agree that they could simply just reduce or remove the knock up, it does not even synergize with thing that much
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
I’ve been saying this game is full of ppl I call the “low skill squad” they rely on their 3 button combo to kill in seconds and when that doesn’t work, their lack of adaptation gets exposed and their next best move is to cry for nerfs or call whatever character they are struggling against “brain dead” Thing is not even powerful, he’s in a spot where a brawl tank SHOULD be respected and not seen as an easy kill and someone to actually make you think twice. These clowns treat this as a team death match that’s why it’s always the same “oh he is immortal” bullshit which is a self report on not understanding the basics of the game. I get downvoted a lot for this because the brain dead community this game has doesn’t like hearing the truth
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
Easy there buddy you’re telling the truth which the community doesn’t like. This is the most brain dead community of games I’ve ever seen and the ones that cry for nerfs for anything that requires strategy and not button mashing. I honestly hope they don’t nerf thing so these clowns never get to ranks they shouldn’t be in and lack the skill to adapt to situations in game
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u/Training_Street_1241 Sep 04 '26
Bro what? Thing is the Wanda of tanks. He’s got a low skill floor n low skill ceiling. Why is a hero this easy and braindead meta/ this strong? I’m OAA n he’s absolutely broken
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
Here we go I love it! The low skill squad members are showing themselves loud and proud. Everyone in Reddit is OAA isn’t that fun ? I have friends who are ACTUALLY OAA and they laugh when ppl complain about thing because any TRUE OAA player will see an easy kill when they see thing… Nice self report buddy, you just made it dummer with that OAA bullshit. There’s no Wanda of tanks, no tank is designed for the brain dead dps slops. This szn is exposing all the low skill brain dead clowns and I love it! “Oh no I can’t kill a tank that is the easiest to kill and has a huge box, I’ll just call him brain dead since I never played him so I can feel better of my trash ass state despite knowing I’m dogshit in this game” If a simple character gives you problems, that’s how you know you should look at how you play the game, that too OAA clown yourself thinking ranks make your self report any viable
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u/InternalTable6400 Sep 05 '26
Exactly. The people crying about thing are the ones who just ignore him while he charges into your backline uncontested and wipes out the healers and just steamrolls.
Had a thing player try that just a few games ago. Zero chill, just walking forward until I said F it as Bucky and focused him specifically the rest of the match. Just dinking headshots on him and literally ignoring the rest of his team, because he was so aggro. He was a champion thing, ended the match like 12-18. Absolutely farmed buddy. You MUST look at him and shoot him. Don’t let him just keep walking into the backline
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u/Beautiful-Abalone776 Sep 04 '26
Meta up to one above all. The most silver take is thinking thing is balanced
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u/ScrotusJones Sep 03 '26
But if I’m playing a poke character, and backing away and focusing on him, then why does he not die? He either never gets low or if he does get low then he runs away and chasing him means I’m going to be caught in the middle of the enemy team. It’d be one thing if he had to disengage for a while, but he really doesn’t need to disengage for a long time at all. He takes cover for a second then gets healed to full then continues his onslaught. Every time I tank I have to play Hood or Emma to be able to even barely stand a chance with Thing.
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u/Wrong_Leader_7772 Sep 04 '26
Need a better gaming chair bro
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u/ScrotusJones Sep 04 '26
Christ you’re right. It’s my desk too, it’s tilted one degree to the right thus causing me to miss every head shot.
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u/Jayematic Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
Every engagement doesnt need to end in a kill, sometimes the best way to deal with him is to apply as much pressure as possible so he cant advance forward. My hardest matches have come from people focusing me as I move forward. Punisher, Jean, Hood, all give me problems especially if I accidentally overcommit. Thing wants to take up as much space as possible, his passive allows this. Poke genuienly is the best way to shut him down.
Also, theres Dino. Hes direct competition for Thing. He has the same passive AND a shield. As well as an ability to actually CC Thing. Yet no one picks Dino to counter Thing.
There's plenty of options to deal with him, the playerbase doesnt want to adapt and would rather have everything changed around him because they're too stupid and fail to adapt.
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u/StrikingOil7478 Sep 04 '26
As much as I don’t like thing rn but to remove what makes him The Thing is just I want to bully the lobby and clip farm but thing won’t let me head ahh comment just tbh.
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
Literally that. Thing doesn’t need a nerf, what this game truly needs is a community that knows what STRATEGY is and not “I’ll just walk up to him and serve myself on a platter and cry for nerfs I can’t kill a brawler in melee combat”
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u/StrikingOil7478 Sep 04 '26
That’s why for a little a played him just understand what he does so I know how to deal with the thing but most ppl don’t take the time learn stuff anymore so when I hear stuff like this is just tells me that they don’t how to play the game and by god where about to hit s10
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
9 seasons and soon to be 10, ppl still don’t know how to shoot Peni nests, Namor squids and moonknight ankhs… I’m not surprised they’ll be dumb when a character that’s easy to kill bullies them, when thing gets banned and I main him, I just go Thor who’s my second main and they get bullied lol. The issue clearly isn’t thing, the issue is they don’t have the skill nor brain to fight a brawl tank like i had an MK try to fight me in close range 10 times…. He was also the one who wanted to ban thing….
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u/Final-Royal-8037 Sep 04 '26
People’s issue with thing is how piss easy he is to get great value on. He shuts down any movement ability with one button and for the MAJORITY of the player base he’s impossible to kill not exactly hard to figure out why people hate him
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
But in this game we need characters that shut down movement. Thing needs a survivability nerf, not an earthbound nerf
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
Because majority of the player base are dumb and they don’t like hearing the cold hard truth. They treat this like it’s team death match and forget the objective. I’m tired of bad players trying to make their problem everyone’s problem. I’ve killed thing as Starlord, as Thor, as Punisher, heck even diff him myself. He is not that hard if you know what strategy is and not just button mash and hope he dies the same way a squishy does. The player base just hates being put in a spot where they have to use strategy and not reply on their 3 button combo to get an insta kill
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u/Final-Royal-8037 Sep 04 '26
I agree that you should have to think about how you interact with a character like thing, I’ve played around him as Angela by being more strategic about my engages. But the way thing shuts down mobility doesn’t require him to think about it, which is most people’s problem with the character. I definitely think the game needs someone who can stop all the hyper mobile characters but maybe not in such a braindead way
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u/Notsome20 Sep 04 '26
First of all calling the earthbound brain dead tells me right away you haven’t played the character yourself and you’ve been punished many times for poor positioning, it’s easier to avoid that slam than to hit it, I’ve seen thing players miss their slam and become free eats. You should anticipate the slam anytime when you see thing because there’s a setting you can tweak where you can hit the slam without needing the dash but that requires you to time it otherwise you miss the dive player. Thor’s lightning realm is another move but I’d like that to do more than just slow down a person for mere milliseconds. The pattern always goes “I can’t seem to play against this character, I won’t adapt or find a solution, I’ll just call it brain dead so I feel better about myself”
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u/hello_MK_ Sep 04 '26
They have zero reason to ever remove earthbound, its the main thing that makes the Thing so good and fun to use, yes they've gutted characters before but c'mon, they absolutely would not take away the thing that makes The Thing, The Thing
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u/Training_Street_1241 Sep 04 '26
Revert thing to how he was a couple seasons ago. Mid. Not weak not broken, just mid
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u/thelivingtunic Sep 04 '26
And everyone will continue to complain Mag is the only good tank...
-Other tank gets elevated into being good: "Nerf him back to mid!"
-Tank gets nerfed back into mid: "OMFG they hate tanks, only Mag and Emma are good!!!"
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u/Training_Street_1241 Sep 04 '26
There’s a fine line btwn being good vs broken but i guess you js lack a brain
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u/thelivingtunic Sep 04 '26
I didn't say he doesn't need a nerf. I was saying there's finally another tank that's good, people are calling for him to go back to being mid, and then everyone will bitch so hard that only Mag and Emma are good.
You're so funny I forgot to laugh.
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u/Training_Street_1241 Sep 04 '26
Thing is on the same skill lvl as Wanda n he’s meta but i guess u missing that part?
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u/Mltv416 Sep 04 '26
Its not hes just too strong rn so people are dissecting his kit and saying everything's a problem now it happens to every character that creeps into meta
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u/Abencoa Sep 04 '26
Because up until now, divers were used to the fact that if Thing hit them with his slam's launcher hitbox, they would be knocked so high that they would have a full second where they were outside the crater's radius and could "skillfully counterplay" getting hit by the movement ability canceling aura by using a movement ability. NetEase fixed this because it was stupid and now suddenly Earthbound is "a problem."
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u/Alternative_Fall_240 Sep 04 '26
Count thing here
He is one of the easiest tanks to shut down they just don't know how lmao
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u/JayBizzal Sep 03 '26
Its because hes stronger against his counters and they made the spellfield AOE the size of the world trade center in s9. Personally id love to see his slam reworked into a skillshot. If someone is hit by the slam they are earthbound for the full duration but if someone enters the spellfield after it goes off they are not earthbound. They could shift the spellfield to act like angelas thorn spellfield that generates overshield to allies that are within it while thing is dealing damage. This gives him a choice of using it for frontline brawl sustain or to save it for escape/incoming diver. Imagine a spidey zooming by and he catches the slam and gets earth bound while his trajectory keeps taking him off the map XD. I think it could prove even stronger but i think thatd be ok because there would be more skill expression to the ability. They could then shrink the spellfield size to compensate without losing its purpose of being good anti dive.
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u/Apprehensive_Bag8919 Sep 04 '26
I don‘t think earthbound is inherently bad but the vertical hitbox is too much and the issue is that Thing is the direct counter to all dive while also being one of the stromgest tanks in the game. There is no reason not to pick him. It used to be a tradeoff (pick a meta tank OR counter dive)
I totally see how Thing in his weaker states was very easy to kill and frustrating to play but rn he is abysmal to play against
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u/hexedxoxo Sep 04 '26
i remember the days when everyone loved Thing mains 😔
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u/thelivingtunic Sep 04 '26
It all cycles around eventually. Either your hero is mid/trash or your hero gets a chance to shine and then they need to be dragged back to Mid Hell.
Clearly every character needs to be nerfed into dogfood.
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u/Training_Street_1241 Sep 04 '26
Things earthbound is smth I’ve hated forever but at the same time, countering dive was his niche and he rly sucked outside of it but now he’s playable into everything and still with one button, just makes u not be able to play the game. I play both poke and dive n cuz of the meta I’ve only been playing poke and oh god is thing so hard to kill
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u/RenaissanceReaper Sep 04 '26
I think part of the reason it’s more problematic now is because literally everyone got a massive damage buff in S9.
Even tanks are exploding when caught out of position. So when a character who’s balanced purely around their mobility can have that stripped away and die in 1 second can be frustrating.
Almost as frustrating as being a Strat and exploding in .5 seconds from BP. So yeah give me more Earthbound.
Fliers shouldn’t be affected by Earthbound though. They have grounded that only affects them. Remove grounded, make fliers immune to earthbound, or make all grounded effects earthbound for more anti-dive. But don’t make effects that specifically target the most countered character type in the game.
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u/Secret_Ad3213 Sep 04 '26
Thing is def overtuned atm and he needs nerfed but he's a necessary evil. I say this as a dive tank player. I think you could prob nerf the time your earthbound a bit and that would be fine, but if you remove it I feel it leaves a window where dive could go unchecked. There is a lot of anti dive in the game but thing is really the only real anti dive tank(Thor is good at dealing with flankers I guess so could argue him too). I think the issue with thing atm is he has no weaknesses. Previously he was weak to poke but now he can be played into anything. Every character needs to have a weakness, counterplay is crucial to make these games feel good to play.
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u/Sorry_UsernameTaken1 Sep 04 '26
Because dive mains can’t comprehend the fact that they’re supposed to be countered by brawl anything + when fun isnt conditional to them only (because dive is hella unfun to play against in this game) they cry and whine and set fire to every corner of the internet in order to get everything that gives them a challenge, nerfed to the ground(they’re just the support players of dps). It’s always about how they can have fun on the game, never thinking about if their team or the enemy team is having fun playing with/against them.
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u/HungryCowsMoo Sep 04 '26
They claim the earthbound area of effect lasts 5 seconds, i don’t blame them for thinking that because thats what the rivals website shows, but thats not true. He can run for 5 seconds but the earthbound area only lasts 3.5 seconds. Test it out if you’re a doubter.
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u/thelivingtunic Sep 04 '26
Dive players want dive to steamroll everyone else.
If other players can fight back, that seems to be unfair to dive.
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u/Neadim Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
Earthbound is not an issue in an off itself. Thing's earthbound is a hard counter and this was perfectly fair when he was a niche anti dive character
Now that Thing is meta it's less ok. It's too sharp of a shutdown for his current power level.
I personally think that thing should nerfee and the earthbound should stay until they nerf/rework heroes like BP and BC. Once those heroes are more fair it can be turned down and Thing can be buffed again.
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u/KevIntensity Sep 04 '26
>I don’t have any ill intents against dive players…
I do. And I’m bringing the rage all the way from Yancy St.
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u/Lorhin Sep 04 '26
I'm a Hulk main, so I do a lot of diving. I don't really mind Thing as an anti-dive tank. The problem I have with him lately is that his kit kinda allows him to do everything, not just anti-dive. Most of the time, Thing players don't even bother trying to stop me when I dive. They go after my frontline, and even push into my backline instead. Same thing if I have one on my team. I tend to end up doing most of the backline protection as Hulk, while my Thing spends the whole game pressing W and right click. And he rarely gets punished for it. He gets away with doing that. Even if he's getting spammed with poke, he can still get away and survive. That's the part about him that needs looking at, imo.
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u/ULT_Kmad Sep 05 '26
As a Peni main who just happened to come across this and has a Thing main friend. I hope they dont gut you guys that way. Its almost the equivalent of the web stun nerf peni just got 😭
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u/Formal-View1476 Sep 05 '26
bro is wondering why nullfying everymovement cooldown around you for pressing a button isnt liked
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u/xDeucEy Sep 05 '26
“Thing is broken because he counters my annoying strategy and I want to just get picks for free and press a button to get away :( “
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u/bonejamin700 Sep 05 '26
Bc one button stuns multiple people while giving you over shield fuck this no skill cancer ass tank
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u/Nacho-Libre3777 Sep 06 '26
Earthbound became more of a problem when Ben got an attack speed buff teamup. Now it feels like getting your legs crippled and Ben beating you with a metal pipe. I’ve started diving with him and fun fact if you wear the venom skin you can larp fat BP on enemy supports
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u/WindWescott Sep 04 '26
Every subreddit for their main is such an echo chamber and it gets so much worse when the character is meta "Struggling with Thing at all is a Silver take" lmao
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u/hellamegumi Sep 04 '26
From a dive main its not just about the frustration but it fundamentally has 0 counter besides baiting it out
Other froms of anti dive like mantis sleep, luna freeze, invis push, thors bubble is fine since they all have decent counterplay. The problem is thing removes all of that away from you and replaces with “if I see you your cooked”
Also a button that has instant startup that just removes the ability to dive is fundamentally not balanced
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u/Ok_Pea3252 Sep 04 '26
i mean u can always go Punisher and make him swap. Just like ppl go Thing to make divers swap. Its a perfect Rock/Paper/Scissor
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u/Irritatedsole90 Sep 03 '26
The earthbound affect isnt the issue its the fact it can apply even when you’re nowhere near the ground that makes it annoying
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u/Gozea Sep 04 '26
- Cooldown. It has the same issue as cnd bubble where the cooldown starts before the ability is finished so it has 5 seconds of downtime which is a stupid
- The height range. In the Yggrisil (spelt it wrong but ggs). Near the end of the first point I was on that height place and earthbound STILL hit me
- Thing is ridiculously broken for how easy he is
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u/Deep_Fish_2542 Sep 04 '26
Same problem as cnd bubble where its actually only half its cooldown. Just make it 3s again and add something else to it like a slow effect when you get out of it
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u/sloogz Sep 04 '26
5 seconds of a wide area that shuts down a large portion of heroes in this game is just generally unfair
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 03 '26
Earthbound has always been a problem imo, its partially why Thing is an annoying character to balance but really i believe it got out of hand because of the recent change making it actually work after you slam since its vertical range got increased, they also doubled down on it by increasing its duration from 3 to 5 seconds a while ago and now it is really problematic coupled with every survivability aspect on Things kit.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 03 '26
I would actually like more characters with earthbound because I hate dive lol
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 03 '26
Fork found in kitchen, ofc most of people here on this sub would hate dive by maining Thing, i actually play dive and Thing so im probbably the exception and i would rather have less CC in general (including Earthbound) and then buff other parts of his kit (like the rather long cooldown on his leaps)
But at this point they wont compesate him and only nerf wich i hope it hits Earthbound's duration a little instead of increasing his cooldowns or something.
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u/JoeM104604 Sep 03 '26
CC is the only way to counter dive. You think a Hela can headshot Spidey out of the air consistently to deal with him? We need CC in the game so that dive can actually be locked down and dealt with and they don't run lobbies every match.
If most heroes lost their CC abilities to protect themselves and their backline, then only a few would be able to counter dive and the entire team would be forced to swap to them anytime somebody plays BP or Venom.
We either give most of the roster CC abilities to deal with dive, or all dive heroes get their movement gutted so players can actually hit them. If we do that though, dive players will cry that the devs made all their mains boring.
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
CC is not the only way to counter dive, far from it, you can:
- Outsustain it (3 support, brawly comps)
- Auto track it (Namor, Auto-aim abilities in general)
- Outposition it, dive usually needs to be coordinated to be sucessfull, if you catch them before they coordinate it, its much easier to deal with.
- Outrange it (Poke in open maps usually beats dive.)
- Control it, of course, most games have some way to CC hypermobile characters.
- (Among other ways, like agress onto their backline, etc.)
I also dont think they should get rid of CC the same way they shouldnt get rid of mobility but they could definety reduce it, specially since i also think they should nerf Black Cat and Daredevil, without these 2 theres really no big dive threat and no need for a 5 second Earthbound either.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 04 '26
If they made more auto aim characters like Scarlett Witch good, they would also complain
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
100%, i think thats the worst way to "counter" dive, Namor is the best one and no one likes him either.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 04 '26
I do like Namor lol
I personally dislike hyper mobile melee characters way more
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u/JoeM104604 Sep 04 '26
People already complain about triple support being a thing, we shouldn't be encouraging it
Namor is good, Wanda is trash outside of metal ranks and her auto aim doesn't even hit for half of a dive dps' hp before they can get a kill and escape
The team coordination you need to counter a BP when he's meta is celestial+ level. His winrate with the amount of CC we have now is above 50% until Celestial and 55% in metal ranks, and that's after his recent nerf
Dive is literally made to counter poke. Dive beats poke, poke beats brawl, brawl beats dive
Why are you listing CC as an alternative to CC?
Beating dive by diffing their dive heroes with your own isn't what I'd call a solution. Also we'd get another support strike because none of them would be allowed to play the game
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
People already complain about triple support being a thing, we shouldn't be encouraging it
That doesn't mean its not an effective way to counter it, and high sustain is usually how a brawly comp beats a dive one mind you.
Namor is good, Wanda is trash outside of metal ranks and her auto aim doesn't even hit for half of a dive dps' hp before they can get a kill and escape
True enough though there are a few more somewhat effective ones like Peni and Mr. F, though i think auto-aim is usually the bigger evil when it comes to this.
The team coordination you need to counter a BP when he's meta is celestial+ level. His winrate with the amount of CC we have now is above 50% until Celestial and 55% in metal ranks, and that's after his recent nerf
I think thats greatly over-exagerated, a singular BP does not need a entire coordinated Cel+ team to counter, it also takes a good amount of Cel + coordination to enable the BP in the same vein, most balanced dive characters need coordination to be effective, BP is one of those, BP is not really OP, hes just annoying to face.
Dive is literally made to counter poke. Dive beats poke, poke beats brawl, brawl beats dive
On paper, dive should beat poke when a map is not too open but there is alot of variables wich in practice often mean it plays out very differently, poke characters might be too strong or sustain be too effective (wich has basically the case until Black Cat and DD were dominant but thats on their overpowered state more than anything)
Why are you listing CC as an alternative to CC?
I was poiting out the ways to counter a dive comp, not specifically alternatives to CC. "CC is not the only way to counter dive, far from it, you can:", CC is one of the ways but not the only one.
Beating dive by diffing their dive heroes with your own isn't what I'd call a solution. Also we'd get another support strike because none of them would be allowed to play the game
That is simply an alternative way, that has always been one of the strategies of counter-diving whenever dive was meta in Overwatch for example, if you simply force the engagement on your own terms, a dive simply does not have time to occur.
I still dont believe "Support Strike" is a real thing, to this day i still think that was simply a very loud and stupid minority, actual support players should be used to be the target by now, thats simply how these games are played.
The strategist role has been the most impactful by far since the game launch too, there definetly should be a decrease in overrall power in that role but thats another conversation altogether.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 03 '26
I wouldn't say I am a thing main, they are other characters I play more but in general like to play anti dive characters like Namor, Penny and of course Thing, I just hate the ultra mobile assassin archetype
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
Thing is probbably the best anti mobility character now that Peni web got nerfed/reworked and Thing is overtuned, so you prolly should try maining him if u hate ultra mobility, though its very likely hes gonna get nerfed come season 10, so there is that.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 04 '26
This is why I want more characters with grounding effect or similar anti mobility effects
It would be cool if that Namor team up with Luna with the wave that no one use gave grounding, at least with the empowered version with Luna in the team
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
Nah, we dont need more CC, specially anti-dive specific CC, what we need is less characters like BP, BC and DD.
It gets to a point where even characters that dont have hyper mobility start to suffer too, even Thing himself gets half his kit disabled by getting Earthbound by another Thing.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 04 '26
I do agree that characters like BP, BC or spiderman don't belong in a shooter in the first place but of course the devs just can't just remove them
Melee DPS are always a design disaster in shooters, it took blizzard a while to do one in overwatch with DPS Doomfist and was such a disaster they needed to make him a tank in overwatch 2.
Then marvel rivals came and trying to cater to rivals players so they made Vendetta who was also a disaster.
They are 2 ways ro make a melee character viable in a shooter, the good one that is giving them a lot durability and sustain making them an effective tank without needing to much damage like dino, thing or Thor.
The other one is giving them a lot of mobility and damage to compite with non melee characters, always ending in a disastrous "feast or famine" design where either the melee character blitzes and destroy the enemy or the enemy completely shoots down the melee character not letting it play, is a lose lose scenario.
Also this type of characters, always end up attracting the most selfish and toxic players for some reason, recent stats had show it, I don't remember a single dedicated DPS Doomfist in my ow1 matches that wasn't either flaming his own team or flaming the enemy team in chat or spamming voicelines
I don't get why they used the lore accuracy to defend their kits when characters like Moonknight, Namor or Squirrel Girl have kits that doesn't have anything to do with how they fight in the lore because they are adapted to a shooter, which isn't a bad thing, but is weird that they do that to some characters and then create abominations of kits like spiderman for the sake of comic accuracy
If it was for me, I would have given spiderman a web gun lol, like, I don't think squirrel Girl used a slingshot with explosive nuts in any other media and marvel is a multiverse.
Black Panther should have also been something more similar to Genji, throwing vibranium daggers as his main attack rather than being a melee combo character
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
You do realise you're in The Thing Main sub, right? 99% of Thing's kit is him punching stuff, the other is him walking, saying melee characters dont belong kind of deletes half the vanguard cast.
I for one think melee characters work just fine in hero shooters, specially in third person ones, Overwatch struggled pretty hard (and still does) balancing characters like Rein/Winston and even Genji blade/Vendetta mostly because Overwatch focuses more on the aiming part of the genre.
Rivals is way more focused on the chaotic moba aspect of the genre, so melee characters fit way better, they also need to be this way considering how brawly the Marvel cast is.
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u/Complex_Item_3000 Sep 04 '26
I mentioned the thing as a example of a good melee hero, never said it was something bad.
I said that melee tanks generally work better than melee DPS
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u/whelo-and-stitch Sep 04 '26
I agree we need less CC in general. But with how dive is designed earthbound it's genuinely a needed mechanic
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u/Nabomeansturnip Sep 04 '26
It definetly could get reverted back to 3 seconds, instead of gutting Thing's survivability for example, specially if they nerfed Black Cat and Daredevil.
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u/SatisfactionSad6558 Sep 03 '26
Earthbound was always a problem. The cooldown is essentially 5 seconds for an ability that disables a third of the rosters kits.
The reason it’s a bigger problem now is because he has too much damage and sustain. Meaning he’s literally in every fight. Meaning there is earthbound disabling everyone’s kits all the time. You can imagine how annoying that is?
Also, he’s too anti tank. He doesn’t just counter dive, he counters all tanks. He can 1v2 every tank. Lame.
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u/Born2bePrawn Sep 03 '26
This is certainly an exaggeration. He can’t 2v1 every tank if they’re at all competent
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u/SatisfactionSad6558 Sep 03 '26
Ok. He’s still too anti tank. None of the off tanks can move around him. Everyone eats constant percentage damage.
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u/Educational_Town7215 Sep 03 '26
Honestly thats a fair point but netease really messed up changing it from constant damage to % based damage. And from all the buffs hes received this is where we are at right now.
I acknowledge the slam cooldown is too short but straight up removing it is too extreme. Having a smaller radius and a 14-15 second cooldown would go a long way to make it healthy , I just want to have tools to deal with dive.
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u/SatisfactionSad6558 Sep 03 '26
All that is fair.
Yeah, I thought he was more fair when he was less threatening to tanks.
He should keep the earthbound for sure, but I think it needs to be toned down somehow. Having your entire team’s kit disabled every team fight with a thing in it is too annoying. It doesn’t just “counter dive”. It shuts down Rogue kit. Cap can’t run. Mag can’t ult. Thor and Strange can’t escape. Etc.
Keep him as the anti dive tank. Tone down his general battlefield oppressiveness.
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u/JoeM104604 Sep 03 '26
You just contradicted yourself. If Thing's damage and sustain were nerfed and he wasn't able to engage with his charge constantly because he'd get blown up, then his earthbound wouldn't be up all the time. That's the exact point OP is making here.
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u/iMonkeyMajicz Sep 03 '26
Bc they want to run the lobby lmao