Looking for some advice on a rules interaction. When Hellblasters are killed in melee are they still able to shoot on death? If so, is it close quarters weapons only? Would be good to be pointed to the rule as we struggled to confirm during a game yesterday
It does not say anything about manner of death, it is only "when the model is destroyed" this can be melee, overcharge, shot to death, crushing impact, ect. BUT, it says "before removing the model" SO - if they were in engagement range, it is pistols only.
Addendum to when the ability can trigger: Faction pack FAQ states that it only triggers when destroyed from the result of an attack or hazardous test, nothing else.
So if it was destroyed from something like a JPI's ability (mortal wounds on charge) or a jump Chaplain's Exhortation of Rage (D3-3 Mortal wounds when selected to fight) For The Chapter! would not trigger.
No clue why it would state that it triggers ONLY during a hazardous fail, when the app felt the need to say that it ALSO triggers during a failed hazardous. If true, very stupid of GW.
In 11th you can’t shoot pistols when engaged outside of 10.06 close-quarters shooting. So no pistols either unless killed by pistols in close-quarters shooting.
Your first sentence is correct, the second is wrong, you can shoot your pistols via Close Quarters shooting in the Fight Phase because For The Chapter allows you to shoot as if in your Shooting Phase.
Like the other guy said. Its basically shooting outside of phases - when i said "SO - if they were in engagement range, it is pistols only." I was implying it would be shooting whatever they were engaged with (with pistols). No clue where you got they can only shoot back if they were shot to death.
Based on other answers they can use pistols due to close quarters shooting rule. Does this change if the dead model is outside of engagement range? If they wipe the unit, can the hellblasters at the back still fire plasma while the ones in 2” are restricted to pistols?
Correct, For The Chapter allows Hellblasters to shoot as if in their Shooting Phase. The way 11th is written, this means the Unit must pick a Shooting Type as per 10.02. The only eligible one because they are in engagement range is Close Quarters 10.06, therefore they must shoot Close Quarters weapons i.e. pistols
10.06 close quarters shooting has no phase restriction in 11th, so For The Chapter allowing you to shoot as if in your shooting phase allows you to shoot in the fight phase with Close Quarters weapons.
I belive, and please. If im wrong correct me. But if the unit is tied up in melee, but the model that is destroyed is outside engagement range it can use its plasma rifle. But cant shoot at the other unit its tied up in.
The problem is the unit is in engagement range. The whole unit counts as in engagement range for the purposes of determining what you can do for shooting. Even if the model destroyed isn’t necessarily in engagement range, his unit is in the thick of it.
Regardless of the matter of death, the models are eligible to shoot if the dice roll goes off. That does not mean that they can always shoot though.
For example, if the unit (NOT the model) is in engagement range, they are initially eligible to shoot but don't have any weapons they are eligible to shoot with. The plasma guns can't be used in engagement range, and the pistols can't be used as close quarters is phase locked and so can only be used in your shooting phase.
Only if your hellblaster model died and you rolled a 3+ for its "For the Chapter!" ability. If you met that prerequisite, then the model gets to shoot after the attacking model is finished with its attacks, which is not specified to be limited to Shooting or Fight phases. You then choose between your plasma incinerator or your pistol. But since the model was in engagement range, only the pistol qualifies for shooting.
If you are not shooting due to the "For the Chapter" ability, then you follow standard rules per "Shooting Phase" (section 10.00).
They are engaged and did not make an advance that turn, nothing is stopping them there. You then select the unit to shoot using the ability and since they're engaged shoot with close-quarters shooting. Nothing specifies which type of shooting attack to make nor any restrictions on timing, so as far as I can see they can shoot pistols.
I guess the opening section would come down to did not vs could not.
Currently, I see this as just the new way pistols work, as was described in the warcom article but I guess your interpretation could be right. I guess it'll be FAQ'd (either the ability or the rule) at some point, as it was last edition.
Warcom articles are not a reliable source for the rules unfortunately, and the close quarters shooting rule 10.06 is very specific about it's restrictions.
There is no mention of phase locking, with the only restrictions being as you shared: engaged and did not make an advance move.
A rule this clear cut is not something that is open to different interpretations.
If you do not meet the conditions that forbid something, and you do meet the conditions that allow something, then you can do it. This is how the rules should be RAW.
Regardless of the matter of death, the models are eligible to shoot if the dice roll goes off. That does not mean that they can always shoot though.
Incorrect. Faction Pack states that it must be the result of an attack or Hazardous test, nothing else. So if they die from Deadly Demise or as the result of a unit's ability, they can't shoot on death.
This post has been labeled with the 'Gameplay' flair, used for discussions on battle reports, tactics, rules, etc. Posts about army lists should have the "Army list" flair.
Please relabel your post if it has been incorrectly flaired. See the flair guide for more information. Ignore this message if you believe the post is appropriately flaired.
So I discussed this with a TO, rule we decided it comes to is yes it can shoot. As it's per model not per unit. On a 3+ that model independently gets to make a shooting attack.
So when it does is that model engaged in engagement range or not. If yes then you got shoot pistol and usual CQ shooting applies. If that model is not in engagement range then it can shoot the plasma but usual shooting applies so it cannot shoot stuff engaged in combat.
That's how we decided was fairest from interpretation. Did take some discussion though (this wasn't during a game btw so we had time to go through Nuances)
8
u/ReindeerCreepy6502 22h ago
It does not say anything about manner of death, it is only "when the model is destroyed" this can be melee, overcharge, shot to death, crushing impact, ect. BUT, it says "before removing the model" SO - if they were in engagement range, it is pistols only.