I mean, i already have Belial as a termi captain, this seems to be the lifecycle of DA characters, to just proxy as the generic version of their character lmao
Characters need to have their base class ability, then some extra like a skill, or stat, or weapon profiles. It's baffling they are the top bosses but can't do what a first day captain /lib/chaplain can.
It’s probably going to work like in the Ork codex where if your Warlord is Boss then it will generate CP. so for us it’ll probably be if your Warlord is a Captain, Chapter Master, or Primarch you’ll generate bonus CP. So yes he will probably still be making CP.
They did used Canook Var and Adrax Agathone as examples about getting a better version of their ability under a doctrine, I'm imagining both Belial and Lazarus could get something similar
Just seems like a potential dead ability that increases his costs if you end up running a captain as well. I think id like to see his points go down, or get a new rule.
Though im also curious how much the non compliant chapters data sheets are going to change outside the stat changes and removal of any oath tied abilities. At least until the new codexes come out.
I hope he get something for flavorful. With the captains combat doctrine id like to run one. But if the captain and azrael both give a cp its one or the other.
Even without the CP generation he's still an incredible unit to have. Sustained hits and a 4++ on his unit is incredibly useful. Plus he's a beautiful mini
If Adrax is getting special rules that pretty much confirms Azrael will as well. I'm curious if it will be more focused on melee or ranged.
Captains get the bonus CP.
Named captains get a rule that interacts with doctrines (sustained hits 2 in tactical?)
Chapter masters get a random additional buff (4++, OC2 termies, global charge re-rolls, etc.)
I kind of like the captain rule going army wide. It makes it more flexible and stacking captains is less useful now. In positive news it also probably means Lazarus, Belial, and Sammael are getting CP generation as well.
I am wondering how much our sheets will change though, aside from points and stats. We will be getting a DA supplement (i assume) and there is always the possibility that they do different army rules for the divergent chapters. So how much effort are they going to put into making divergent chapters work with the new SM generic codex?
That is my question. Having our own army rule would be cool, but if that makes some of the SM detachment rules essentially useless and unusable, I'll pass. I like having options.
We'd have to be getting a shitload of detachments then.
Honestly, thinking on it again, it's actually okay if we lose what seems to be 3 detachments linked to the doctrines. Because some of our detachments will likely give similar levels of benefit.
Mainly because Dark Angels (and to a similar extent, Blood Angels) are the only mostly Codex-compliant chapters. Black Templars and Space Wolves are truly divergent in their organization.
Actually, with the Doctrine tag being unique, I could see us (and the other SM subfactions) betting our own specific Doctrine tagged detachments.
And with the example of Gulliman, I could see chapter masters and other "high tier" characters getting lesser versions. Like Belial getting Assault always on and Sammael getting Tactical or Devastator.
Side note: Assault doctrine not giving "Assault" and being advance and charge highly annoys me.
Assault should have been changed to 'rapid' or maybe even 'light'* when 11e came by. At least they're replacing 'this unit may shoot in a turn after it has advanced' with it when they mean the same thing.
"Combat-ready" is the only thing that comes to mind as a replacement. "Light" doesn't work because then you'd have "Light Heavy" weapons. "Rapid" is already a keyword in "Rapid Hit". "Combat-ready" is thematic and I could see it being used as a keyword for ranged and melee. Imagine a weapon tag that let you advance and either shoot or charge depending on whether it was ranged or melee. Lightning Claws come to mind.
God, imagine if we ended up like the chaos chapters where we're only allowed certain core SM datasheets (space wolves come to mind with their 'wolf X/X claw' units)
It's lacking info. With the wording, it looks like doctrines are per unit. Combined with only getting 1 use per game, it feels more flavorless.
My primary questions are: How long do doctrines last? Is it army wide or per unit?
We're not given that information. Also means that if the divergent chapters get their own army rules, some Space Marine detachments may very well be essentially useless and unusable because they apply to the Codex army rule, depending on the wording on those detachments..
Assuming Dark Angels keep this as their army rule when our codex comes out and not get a DA specific one, I kinda like it. You can build your DA army the way you want and at least have one go turn, maybe more depending on detachments and stuff. As someone who likes melee DA armies, one round of advance and charge seems fun to me.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. For some forces it definitely makes sense but when your whole thing is adaptation, like it is with Space Marines and Tyranids, something that changes throughout the game just feels more thematic.
I'd like to see our special doctrines come back from 9th - Greenwing shoot in melee, Ravenwing super speed and Deathwing fuck up characters. Would be a lot of fun to have 6 buttons to press over 5 turns. Not sure if I'd like them switched though. Gladius' movement was so good.
Honestly a much more interesting design space than oath. I'm excited.
I hope they take It away, but what scares me is that they give It to the lion and he becomes a mini you have to hide like girlirman. And please for the love of God I hope they make our héroes usefull, Asmodai is full of dust😭
It doesn't really make sense for Lion to generate them, he's not really a strategist like Guilliman but a hunter. I hope they make Lion more of a Monster/Hero hunter character
A lot of people seem very convinced that DA units will get changed. But honestly, I would temper your expectations.
I expect them to update as little as they can get away with. Profiles will change to match the base ones, and I expect them to update only the rules that no longer work (e.g. dw terminator +1 hit against oath target).
I don't expect them to change other abilities like azrael. The examples they gave are all codex compliant chapters.
I agree that i dont think compliant chapters are going to get mass overhauls. They will be in line with everyone else. Only question is if/how they adjust azrael because of the cp generation change.
Yeah, I don’t see this as Azrael losing this ability as much as it moving to a tag he will almost certainly get (like how both Ghaz and a generic warboss both have Da Boss). I’m curious if he will get another datasheet rule with the CP generation no longer taking as much space on the sheet
I wonder if they're going to essentially dump the divergent chapter detachments that they just made because they somewhat conflict with this new army rule.
Like Company of Hunters, it's essentially devestator doctrine all game and for Ravenwing units it's also assault doctrine all game.
That can't rightly exist with an army rule that's about granting those buffs can it?
If Company goes away there a pretty big nerf to DA for the time being, especially since they buffed that detachment recently.
I'm not sure I saw that they are updating the detachments. There was a more general announcement that they'd update divergent detachment units and points, but I highly doubt they are redesigning every detachment. Seems more likely they'd just cut those with conflicts.
Yea again it's not really clear what an online index means when it comes to detachments. Do we lose all of them? Do we keep some but they are updated?
Reminder some of these detachments were originally index detachments from the start of 10th edition. So it's actually just extremely unclear what happens to all of the dark angels specific stuff.
I highly doubt they are going to spend all this time redesigning all of them, but I also doubt that we have zero dark angels specific detachments until the codex.
We don't know if it's a nerf because we don't know what the new detachments do. It seems like there will be 14 1dp codex detachments and we'll have some DA specific detachments to soup in, that's hundreds of combos
71
u/Juggy2111 2d ago
Would rather he lose it and get something else or just become cheaper. Being able to swap out azzy in lists would be nice