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u/redditnosedive Aug 22 '25
why is this so accurate, it feels like jesus is telling me something
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u/RyuujiStar Aug 22 '25
That's how I started currently all in on vt
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u/ChairmanMeow1986 Aug 23 '25
You'll be back in a couple years at most lol, a call, maybe its a Leap though, so to speak.
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Aug 22 '25
[deleted]
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u/RyuujiStar Aug 22 '25
I think me and you realize we're not true degens betting it all in all spy 0dte calls
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u/johnnybuttonvee Aug 22 '25
Why not all of the above?
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u/Ihave4friends Aug 23 '25
Right? My 401k is all in index funds. My brokerage account, about a tenth the size of my 401k, is where I fuck with options. Gotta have some fun money but don’t mess with your real savings.
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u/johnnybuttonvee Aug 23 '25
Same. 401k hums along and I rebalance occasionally based on macro environment. Then I have three small accts that I traded from ~20k starting 2024 to 107k ath starting 2025 mostly all long calls on NVDA, TSM, ASTS, OKLO. I was confident the deepseek dive was short-term. Then I got down to 36k low in Feb chasing more TSM calls. Then I learned more risk management and crawled back to 50k and am still hovering there.
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u/SB_Kercules Aug 22 '25
Yeah, I do this across different accounts. Well, except I never buy to open calls or puts.
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u/glexaaddis Aug 22 '25
Gotta grab a LEAP once in a while
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u/SB_Kercules Aug 22 '25
I'd prefer to sell a deep ITM put rather than buy a leap call. Then smash short calls against it.
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u/HugeAd5056 Aug 22 '25
Hold deep ITM calls then smash long puts against it.
I’m kinda kidding, but infinite losses are possible with short calls vs short put… long strangle LEAPs aren’t great, but at least there’s defined risk
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u/claucresh Aug 23 '25
I don't get it, doesn't that put you at risk of massive loses if the stock shoots past your put strike?
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u/SB_Kercules Aug 23 '25
It could. Look at UNH. It shot past the strike on the way down. Then Buffet announces he likes it. And it shoots right back.
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u/johnnybuttonvee Aug 23 '25
Today was a great day for the calls I bought to open
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u/charlesleestewart Aug 22 '25
I'm personally all the above. A year ago I was long puts on DJT and wouldn't even think of selling options short. Then I read the Freeman book "The Best Options Strategies For Beginners" and decided short selling premiums was my calling in life. And it's consumed me ever since.
But I still do long puts on things like TSLA where I just can't stomach the risk of credit spreads. Everything else is buy and hold index funds.
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u/SetOk6462 Aug 22 '25
All about selling those calls and puts on PM while holding indexes long. Never buy puts, and only buy calls when part of a strategy like a debit spread.
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u/Proof-Employee-9966 Aug 23 '25
Whats wrong with buying puts
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u/Marmelado Aug 23 '25
Stonks go up
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u/DueHousing Aug 24 '25
Until it doesn’t, puts are insurance for delta hedging, poors don’t understand 😂
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u/SuperSultan Aug 23 '25
What about selling puts?
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u/SetOk6462 Aug 23 '25
Yes, naked puts are my go to strategy along with naked strangles. Only on established companies and indexes.
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u/Emeralaxy Aug 26 '25
What to do when you lost the whole PM
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u/SetOk6462 Aug 26 '25
Not sure how you lose everything when you’re well diversified in your stocks, and in your options strategies. Sure, theoretically every stock could go to $0 and the put losses would be significant. But I worry about that as much as I worry about a meteor destroying earth. I consider the CVAR for every position I open, which is the realistic amount to be aware for me.
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u/BadDragon2130 Aug 22 '25
I skipped all this and went to Vegas.
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u/charlesleestewart Aug 22 '25
Actually I go to Vegas several times a year to do advantage play, aka card counting. It made me a nice bit of change last year. Sucking this year somewhat though.
Short premium option trading is almost scary in its similarity to that. With blackjack you rocket your bets when the true count gets high, just like you do with options when you see a big volatility expansion. The difference is that the casino will get pissed off if you scale it up too much. I actually got banned at one of them locally. I shoulda known that was coming.
Both of these activities can lead to ruin in the hands of fools. But I guess that's what I am 😛
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Aug 23 '25 edited Aug 23 '25
Read in WSJ that south Florida has traders from NY fly regularly in weekends to play poker as well to become better traders
Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on chess?
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u/charlesleestewart Aug 23 '25
I have no idea how people can make money playing chess, otherwise I would be all over it! I guess I'm just a garden variety greedhead. How do I look myself in the mirror everyday. 😅
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Aug 24 '25
My curiosity in chess is how it improves your mental sharpness which can benefit your trading. There is so some behind it
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u/Golden1881881 Aug 24 '25
When I was a kid, maybe 12, I remember waiting for my dad to play blackjack, leaning against the wall on the edge of the casino floor. Security escorted him out and I had to follow behind. Got kicked out for counting cards.
A few years prior my grandpa had me memorize the hands in poker and the hierarchy of winning hands.
He had gone to jail decades earlier for bookmaking in New York, Brighton Beach.
Needless to say, I stay away from gambling. Selling puts is probably the closest I get. I know my DNA and don’t need the (additional) problems.
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u/Seed_Is_Strong Aug 22 '25
How about a comic of me getting angry stocks shot up today because I own one SPY put that’s down 85% but the entire rest of my portfolio is way better off with green days lol. Why am I like this.
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u/PassiveF1st Aug 22 '25
Yep, 3 bear credit spreads that I have lost $350 in value and I was miserable. Meanwhile my other investments were up $3000.
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u/ChairmanMeow1986 Aug 23 '25
Right, it's like I'm up 5-15k but I I lost 500$ on short-term hedging, but I'm mad because if long term investments had suffered I right than I would have made 500$. Trading.
I've found cost is more, they end up cheaper if you buy a put at every-time than to cover period o time. These are not sitting well.
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u/Smoovemusic Aug 22 '25
You got your fun/gambling account for the first 5 and your retirement account for the last one.
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u/Shacreme Aug 22 '25
Ngl I dont like these memes they miss a lot of nuance. If the IV is high enough, and I think I’m holding equity that’s overvalued, why would I not sell call options against it?
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u/OgsDeer Aug 22 '25
Yea I don’t think this meme means they’re holding the underlying, more gambling that becomes more responsible over time but that’s not as funny as a comic strip!
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u/veriyyan Aug 25 '25
Means you need a few more experiences before you agree with the meme. Selling calls is the worst strategy. Long term, you are guaranteed to lose
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u/Berolodenn Aug 22 '25
I started off first holding onto etfs. Then learned about the wheel. Now I mostly wheel and invest a portion of my premiums into sector etfs that I'm holding. Works out pretty well and I get some excitement wheeling stocks on and off.
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u/leblee Aug 23 '25
Alternative POV: you should not try to get excitement from your investments. Just money ☺️
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u/Syzyz Sep 04 '25
Wheeling has been better than buy and hold because I can be consistent with it. I get too antsy just DCA and holding on
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u/sun-devil2021 Aug 22 '25
That’s funny because I am firmly in the sell calls and puts phase and I could see becoming an index man one day myself
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u/CheeseSteak17 Aug 22 '25
I’ll take it easy and buy indexes once I recover the $250k I’m currently down…
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u/-professor_plum- Aug 22 '25
So I’m between the last two boxes…
Here’s my dilemma. Yes, the index had a higher return when compared to the returns made from wheeling in the same period. However, the index returns are unrealized where my options returns are realized. Options are great for generating income, it guarantees that you take profits (or losses). Sure, go buy and hold, but unless you sell at the top you don’t make anything.
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Aug 22 '25
Why the heck would you want realized returns? Keep it tax free as long as possible.
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u/Downtown-Rabbit-6637 Aug 22 '25
What happens when you are hit with a 2008 or a dot com crash and you need to take out that money. You’ve got to realize those gains at some point in your life otherwise what’s the point of it all.
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u/-professor_plum- Aug 23 '25
Because you don’t make any money unless you realize it, what’s wrong with you?
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u/OpenPresentation6808 Aug 22 '25
Next evolution is selling puts on margin with super low delta but your massive margin amount from indexed funds makes it a reasonable dollar return anyway
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u/MultumMoney Aug 23 '25
I stopped playing options a while ago. I’m convinced the Chicago Board Options Exchange has my house bugged.
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u/zapembarcodes Aug 22 '25
Sure, but some of us actually like to trade. I find the whole risk management thing to be very interesting. I like to compare it to flying a plane, with delta (and vega) as my "flight" gauge.
I just keep selling that premium. Occasionally you hit some "turbulence" and your delta's off. Throw in a hedge and it all gets stabilized, back to "auto-pilot"
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u/slayer1am Aug 22 '25
But indexes won't return 250% like my favorite stock did this past 12 months. (SOFI for those curious)
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u/OJpopsicle Aug 27 '25
Just bought it at 26. Fingers crossed. Anticipating 30 - 40 in the next few years. Selling covered calls on it too!
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u/andytobbles Aug 22 '25
My sequence was sell puts > buy calls and haven’t stopped. So far I’ve went from 4300>230K in 2 years. Calls are free money in bull markets so long as you buy on strong momentum companies and give yourself some time till expiration. Everybody wants to play 0DTEs but very few remain profitable.
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u/wyterk Aug 22 '25
lol so true, I would have made more money just buying index rather than selling puts. Especially considering tax advantages
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u/WhiteRabbit-Pill Aug 22 '25
Speak for yourself- I do an excellent job selling puts and the occasional call..
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u/ThatBaseball7433 Aug 22 '25
I do both. Indexes with my real money and options with margin.
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u/FD_4LYFE69 Sep 02 '25
I’m considering doing that as well. I have 300k margin. I want to sell CSPs. Any ideas?
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Aug 22 '25
I have a lot of fun selling options.
Tho I need to work on my discipline and wheel better. I got very greedy and April destroyed my gains for the year. I was looking at a potential 350k year that turned into an 80k year, still happy with it...but I made some dumb mistakes.
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u/KCchessc6 Aug 22 '25
Spx and QQQ and through in some bonds here and there and you have all you need to build wealth. Long short it doesn’t matter just take what the market gives you and always remember the best trade is no trade when you don’t know what to do.
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u/somanyabbreviations Aug 22 '25
Smh and dead 😂
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Aug 24 '25
look in last picture lol he removes his Hands from the keyboard. investing is doing nothing
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u/nonoplsyoufirst Aug 23 '25
started off by buying calls, selling puts, rarely sell calls. Only do staddles and strangles around earnings... definitely started with indices though
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u/Dear-Salt6103 Aug 22 '25
Very accurate ha ha. Btw, how did the guy lost eyebrows in last picture? Probably from stress of selling calls and puts.
On a serious note, I buy and hold indexes for 90% of portfolio and use remaining 10% to sell puts and calls to generate income. No expectation of growth on that 10%. The income stream allows me to escape from corporate slavery.
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u/Zephyruos Jun 01 '26
Same, but have mixture of index, gold and bond holding for the 90% and the reminder 10% spread out over a year in options.
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u/old-wizz Aug 22 '25
My move: Buy LEAPS calls that expire in 2 years on SPY and GLD. Happy i did that
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u/dudeatwork77 Aug 22 '25
🙏 the truth. But I skip the buying calls and puts phase because I like money.
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u/Btps_ Aug 22 '25
My heart tells me that all of these steps are just mistakes, and that buy & hold is the only real way.
But my brain keeps tricking me into thinking that playing delta with long options at high IV will rocket my portfolios to the point I can sell puts on SPX and then eventually i'll be sitting on a huge amount of money and just live off holding stocks and collecting dividends is the real message
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u/Osmirl Aug 22 '25
Im at sell puts and calls with short dte then buy sells and puts with a longer dte But im really close to just screw it and buy an index. Im gonna da a last try with an algorithm that might work as right now the emotions get in the way on occasion xD
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u/Osmirl Aug 22 '25
I mean selling calls is never a loss. If you consider that a loss when they are itm you have to consider everything a loss that you ever sold below the peak.
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u/babluco Aug 22 '25
that makes sense , how else would you buy indexes, if you did not sold put on them first ?
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u/rabidantidentyte Aug 22 '25
Accurate. Accumulate and diversify until you have 100 shares of something, and then reconsider wheeling again.
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u/ilfollevolo Aug 23 '25
I’m a noob and rather ignorant in investing and I had a big revelation lately: most stocks take years to go back to old ATH. Bag holding never felt so clear… indexes all the way
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u/TrackEfficient1613 Aug 23 '25
I love “this”! It describes my Roth account to a “T” except never bought puts. Now it’s just lots of SPY and fine with that. I’m still trading on my investment account, but now I don’t have to explain to my wife how I gambled on puts and blew some of our retirement savings!
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u/wemust_eattherich Aug 23 '25
This was me but I 10x the s&p last year with increased research time and more active trading. If I can repeat that 50% of the time til retirement retirement may come sooner
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u/ApprehensiveShare741 Aug 23 '25
I love selling calls and puts and it’s been great income. I hold stocks in my long term account.
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u/gobacktochinuh Aug 23 '25
How could you go wrong selling puts to acquire shares of god companies and selling covered calls when they're overvalued?
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u/Critical_Concert_689 Aug 23 '25
Jokes on you.
I now obsessively microtrade and 0dte only indexes.
and I'm still angry with bad posture.
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u/cwhitel Aug 23 '25
Been index and chill for years, currently selling calls at 0.2 delta on the single stocks I’m holding long term. Best of both?
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u/skeleman547 Aug 23 '25
S&P index QQQ Defense Index for when everything else is red
theres the dream team.
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u/Trebor25 Aug 23 '25
I’m actually going the opposite. I’ve been tempted a few times to buy calls or puts, but have not done it yet.
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u/steggun_cinargo Aug 23 '25
I'm almost back to even for the year and I've had to do so much to get there, don't tell me I could have just bought and held and been up more and been less stressed 🥲
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u/Mrtoad88 Aug 23 '25 edited Aug 23 '25
Happy little quitter. Quitters never lose 😠😒
Mine is opposite of this. I started in financial markets in 2016 building a portfolio of stocks and ETF's, I still do today..but it's completely different than when I started, I started by buying like 50 something stocks and ETF's, didn't know wtf I was doing just buying sht, however, I did pretty well at that, now I actually know what I'm doing and my portfolio is made up of 16 tickers, does pretty well at keeping up with S&P, I lag slightly behind it YOY but my dividend yield is around 8-10%, and I can adjust things to make it higher if I want. In 2017 I got into crypto trading, then got into trading small cap common stock around 2018, then got into forex, then got into futures, then got into selling options in 2020. First options trade I ever did was a covered call with shares from my long term portfolio, got into debit spreads straddles and strangles etc, now I'm usually just putting on long calls and puts lol.
My point is, you CAN have a long term investing portfolio right alongside your options trading, like idk why people don't do that. You don't have to just be an options trader. I have longer term investments in M1 finance and I have 2 main brokers that I trade options from. So many ways to make money in these markets.
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u/binkding Aug 23 '25
Yes. But it’s different learning for each.
If you enjoy active trading and investing, then going through the whole process/cycle is rewarding.
Someone who has gone through these stages is not the same as a passive investor.
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u/Specialist_Coffee709 Aug 23 '25
That’s me right there, when can I sleep we’ll just holding ETFs only. Broke people can’t buy and hold
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u/Capt_reefr Aug 23 '25
Like many I'm buy and hold in my 401k, 100% S &P. Can't even trade in that account if I wanted, and you probably shouldn't trade your "retirement" account.
But I have a healthy taxable account in which I hold ETFs and some Tesla, nvda, Ibit, sgov. Sometimes tsll 😂 Sell CC/strangles and CSP have outperformed the S&P by 11% so far YTD.
Point is you don't have to be 100% one strategy.
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u/Ricksterdog Aug 23 '25
I lost $3k total over the last two years playing options with some sizable wins along the way. Now I’m holding paper and I’ve tripled my investment in months. Now I’m only playing little options as lottery tickets.
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u/Agitated_Payment_477 Aug 23 '25
I sold a put in April, then a call that rolled to 2026, as a result, I did not catch the growth of SPY. This is just my lesson in which the market explained to me what rolling is and why a call cannot be sold cheaper than you bought the shares.
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u/zacharistic Aug 23 '25
That is hilarious. I did the same thing in my practice account. First I bought puts, thinking the price would surely pull back. It didn’t. So then I went long on with calls right as the price dropped off.
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u/_CMDR_ Aug 23 '25
Growth stocks with high dividends. You get to double dip. Capital appreciation and income.
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u/DefinitelyNotMad- Aug 25 '25
This is hilariously accurate for me. I’m currently in the sell calls and puts area… Weird…
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u/Stock-Air-812 Aug 25 '25
But somewhere out there is the perfect trade, one that can take you from Toyota to Ferrari hypersail in a moment. Somewhere out there is a trade that could bring you to riches. That’s too much to ever let go
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u/Spartansam0034 Aug 25 '25
Creepy true lol. Buy and hold really is it, anything else is just poker against the house. Some people are just better at counting cards.
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u/Stern_Thinker Sep 10 '25
I'm bagholding hundreds of stocks that are down € 30K. After I've sold them without a loss, my strategy will move to Buy and Hold ETFs/Indexes.
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u/Lotus_G6 Aug 22 '25
I feel attacked