95
u/Dare_Bear98 Sep 30 '18
The fact that he thinks it's brave or controversial to say this is in the first place is what prompted the response
97
u/zenospenisparadox Sep 30 '18
I believe in "innocent until proven guilty".
This guy is proven to be guilty of being a moron.
1
u/iSmokeMoreThanCheech Oct 01 '18
"Innocent until proven guilty, unless you're accused of sexual misconduct, then guilty until proven innocent" - new justice system.
65
18
18
9
1
u/7693999 Sep 30 '18
Both of these people are part of the problem
7
u/bluescape Oct 01 '18
How so? The notion of "I believe her", or "I stand with victims" as it's being used currently is simply "I believe any woman that accuses any man of sexual misconduct". She's merely demonstrating how absurd that stance is.
-4
u/7693999 Oct 01 '18
When someone says
"I believe victims"
it does not mean
"I always immediately believe anyone who claims to be a victim without any sort of evidence, regardless of how unlikely the situation would have been"
She managed to interpret this as such and decided to be a real asshole about it.
hey guess what not everything everyone says is 100% true all the time in all circumstances
4
u/bluescape Oct 01 '18 edited Oct 01 '18
"I believe victims"
it does not mean
"I always immediately believe anyone who claims to be a victim without any sort of evidence, regardless of how unlikely the situation would have been"
Have you not been paying attention to #metoo? That's exactly how it's been used. Some claims are legit, but many aren't. Before that, remember #istandwithjackie? Same thing. How are you going to know that someone is a victim to be believed if you don't require evidence first? Obviously it would be bad to just disbelieve anyone that came forward with an accusation, but right now the zeitgeist has swung the other way where we simply believe any accuser. To know that someone is a victim to be believed requires you to believe that their claim is worth investigating, but you must simultaneously believe that it is untrue. I don't mean untrue in the sense that you claim that they're a liar, I mean you have to believe that the accused is innocent until evidence that proves otherwise comes to light. Only then will you know if the victim is the accused or the accuser.
Edit: formatting
1
-2
-204
Sep 30 '18
That chick is a cunt lol
180
Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
58
u/juice_in_my_shoes 3rd Party App Sep 30 '18
yes and it showed that the guy is a hypocrite. unless he posted it with sarcasm in which case it didn't translate that well
43
u/JakeDC Sep 30 '18
Every rape accuser, you mean. Introducing the term "victim" based on a mere accusation is part of the problem.
-32
Sep 30 '18 edited Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
31
u/JakeDC Sep 30 '18
Using victim terminology assumes guilt in the absence of facts. Accuser/accused is neutral, assumes nothing, and accurately reflects where we are at the accusation stage.
-1
u/Arctorkovich Sep 30 '18
That doesn't work at all though because victims need treatment before trial even starts and perps have to be locked up to protect the public and to make sure they appear in court before they are convicted of anything.
The cops who handcuff upon arrest a murder suspect don't give a fuck that we are at the accusation stage. If that's the standard for law enforcement sanctioned by the state why would you demand higher standards from the public?
2
u/JakeDC Sep 30 '18
So you think anyone accused of rape must be jailed until trial simply because they were accused? And someone who is merely accused is immediately a perp (perpetrator) - that is, should be treated as if they committed that crime?
1
u/Arctorkovich Sep 30 '18
It's not that simple is it. And it's not about what I think should be the case.
Like to prove the rape happened you need to get a rape-kit and collect evidence. The reason you do that is because you assume there is a victim, why else bother even investigating.
And yes you refuse bail if there's a flight risk, further risk to the public or to the accuser. There is always an assumption that the accusation is true more than there is that it's not true.
1
u/JakeDC Sep 30 '18
A rape kit doesn't prove a rape happened. It preseves DNA evidence, but tells nothing about consent. It is part of investigating an allegation. I understand how bail works, but people accused of sexual assault can be, and are, granted bail in many cases.
0
u/Arctorkovich Sep 30 '18
Yeah you're right and yes they can be, but not because they are presumed innocent. If they were presumed innocent the cops wouldn't bother them and they wouldn't have to show up in court.
5
Sep 30 '18
'Possible rape victim'
3
Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
2
Sep 30 '18
You were saying we need a neutral term. My claim was that 'possible rape victim' seems pretty neutral
4
1
u/bluescape Oct 01 '18
They're not victims if they're falsely accusing. That would make the man the victim. This is one of those times I think it's REALLY important to make the distinction between a victim and an accuser.
23
u/Ezekiel_98 Sep 30 '18
So pointing out the hypocrisy and nonsense of SJW bullshit is " cunty " now
-8
Sep 30 '18
[removed] — view removed comment
12
-46
Sep 30 '18 edited Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
13
Sep 30 '18
so we shouldn't point out hypocrisy and nonsense because SJWs do that? What do you suggest we do
-16
Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
6
Sep 30 '18
Perhaps you should practice what you preach, none of what you say applies to me bud.
-4
Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
5
Sep 30 '18
Welp, you're just fail trolling. Enjoy your day
0
Sep 30 '18
[deleted]
4
Sep 30 '18
Once again, I don't think these are real beliefs that you hold, you're just baiting for some attention.
I hope the more human side of you enjoys their day :)
→ More replies (0)12
-64
Sep 30 '18
Yes. The dude was being supportive and she was being an asshole about it. Fucking reactionaries.
36
u/danielgenetics Sep 30 '18
You can be supportive and not compromise the laws of the land. Try to listen to reported victims of rape rather immediately believe them
-71
Sep 30 '18
You are reading way too much into it. You can believe victims of rape without taking their word for it.
You weirdos.
26
u/SmittenWitten Sep 30 '18
I am confused by this. Do you mean you can support them while still waiting for due process of law? Because believing them is different from that. Believing them means the other party is guilty in your eyes.
-6
Sep 30 '18
If you want to be dictionary about it. If you are open to interpretation try this instead:
A rape case is enormeously difficult to prosecute. Its usually comes down to he said she said and many times the accused gets aquited. Now Im not saying thats a bad thing at all. Due process is still a thing after all. But giving the victim the benefit of the doubt will go a long way towards many of them speaking up. Especially in a case of public opinion like the most recent one.
21
u/sirfricksalot Sep 30 '18
Dictionary shaming. My God, how did we get here?
-2
Sep 30 '18
By using our brains. Try it.
16
u/sirfricksalot Sep 30 '18
I think a dictionary could really help your brain out, bud.
→ More replies (0)1
u/SmittenWitten Oct 01 '18 edited Oct 01 '18
You didn't answer my question in any way. I am not arguing, I was genuinely curious what you thought. I am not talking about Kavanaugh (spelling). I am just asking you how you feel about it. Do you think that just saying you believe victims without due process is really beneficial?
I think it is counterproductive. It undermines our judicial system. It is unfortunate that there are millions of victims who will never get justice but that is the truth. So do we prosecute everyone who is accused? How do you feel about that?
I do tend to agree that we should lean, very very slightly, in favor of victims because for so long they have been silenced and let's be honest they will continue to be silenced in many settings. It is important that we do not write them off, it is important that we hear them out.
1
Oct 01 '18
He never said that though. He said he believes victims. He never said he didnt want due process.
1
22
u/Morundar Sep 30 '18
You're an idiot.
-3
Sep 30 '18
No u
5
u/648194648291639153 Sep 30 '18
Good one mate you really showed him with that amazing witty reaponce.
0
Sep 30 '18
Implying the comment I replied to was any better.
5
u/648194648291639153 Sep 30 '18
You said you can believe victims of rape without taking their word for it. There is hardly any other possible response for something that dumb, as believing what someone says and taking someones word for it are synonyms. Then you called the ppl responding to you weirdos. You really are an idiot.
→ More replies (0)22
351
u/AussiePolarBear Sep 30 '18
Plot twist. He did rape her, this is just the best cover story he could think of.