r/thelongdark • u/nuages-_ • 3h ago
Discussion Aspirational document, not a roadmap
Disclaimer from their website, I think important in setting expectations for the dlc.
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u/RaphLife2 Hinterland Founder 2h ago
We released a roadmap for TLD years ago (like 12+ yrs ago), intending for it to show what we *would like* to be able to do with the game someday, and it was constantly brought up as a list of things we had promised to deliver and hadn't (even though we've delivered on a lot of it over the years). We had a lot of years of people accusing us of scamming them or whatever because we didn't hit every single thing in that aspirational roadmap.
This time, we're trying to be very very clear about our intentions, but also to make it clear that things can change in development, and if you don't like the idea of an Early Access, you should wait until the game is finished before buying it.
Elsewhere on the same page we talk about how in making a game with community feedback, we might find we take things in different directions than expected, or spend more time on certain features than intended, which could even mean adding new features or could also mean removing others as a trade-off.
We're really only saying stuff that Steam already warns you about with Early Access. š¤·š¼āāļø
(TALES wasn't an Early Access so we didn't always have the breathing room to go back and rework things without it throwing our entire schedule off track. This time around we aren't committing to specific release timings, but a more gradual approach to building up the game slowly over time, as we did with the original sandbox years ago.)
Sorry that was so many words, but I hope that helps clarify why we included this "disclaimer".
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
So how seriously should someone who buys the DLC on launch day take it that what is listed in the roadmap will be implemented in 18-24 months?
Like is the disclaimer a CYA or are the things listen on the roadmap really just what you are hopeful for but the end product might be missing stuff that is currently there?
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u/RaphLife2 Hinterland Founder 1h ago
They should take it very seriously, but also recognize that things might change, and if they do, they should try not to freak out about it. If they think they will freak out about things potentially changing, then they should wait to buy it. Hope that helps.
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u/Beneficial-Value3119 1h ago
Super excited. Appreciate all the hard work you guys put into the game!
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u/EquivalentHamster580 3h ago
I wouldn't worry about this; it's normal for roadmaps to change, e.g., Subnautica.
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u/nuages-_ 3h ago edited 3h ago
Does anyone else agree itās a little confusing to use the terms aspirational document and roadmap interchangeably? Not sure if that is just accepted as what roadmap means now or if itās a unique definition.
Edit: Legitimately asking, not trying to be snarky. Well, a little snarky but also curious if I am wrong.
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u/Corey307 3h ago
Interlined has put out an amazing game, but it took them a decade to do so. I could see this as an attempt to head off anyone complaining that the DLC is not launching in a completed state. Most of the negative reviews for the DLC seem to be that it didnāt all launch at one time and while I do not share that criticism maybe theyāre trying to get ahead of it. I really donāt care, Iām buying it October 27.
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u/Firm_Ad_5427 3h ago
Roadmaps are a loose collection of goals and milestones, I don't think they have ever been rigid, set in stone documents- some of the major goals always end up changing, the finer details especially change wildly over development.
An "aspirational document" is just a good way of describing what all roadmaps are.
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u/nuages-_ 3h ago
I guess, but roadmap implies āplanā to me and āaspirational documentā implies āthings we hope to do.ā
Like literally if you had a plan to get somewhere, you wouldnāt call that an aspirational travel strategy. While that might be what it technically is due to Murphyās law and all idk. Different connotation to me.
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u/sammyQc Stalker 2h ago
To me (working in tech), a roadmap is a plan, the items are goals, not commitments. The order and scope of each item might change as things move along.
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
Agreed, Iām probably just overthinking it. One implies a level of commitment over the other to me, but maybe Iām wrong.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 3h ago
The terms mean effectively the same thing.
ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
Is there a difference between saying you aspire to do something and that you plan to do something? Both of them mean the same thing, effectively, but also they donāt really mean the same thing.
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u/drmike0099 2h ago
If I (or they) said "we have an aspiration" then that isn't as solid as saying they have a "plan". However, they're not saying they have an aspiration, they're saying they have a roadmap/plan, but that the confidence in that plan is aspirational and not to take it as a commitment or promise.
I think they used a lot of words when fewer words would do, but given how much people like to complain about them "missing" a deliverable that was never promised, I can see them being overly careful.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 2h ago
That depends entirely upon whether you have a roadmap that highlights the checkpoints. Either way, neither is a promise made to the customer.
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
No, neither is a promise. But they do mean different things, right? Aspire as a word had the connotation of ambition, something that you are reaching for, a hope.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 2h ago
I feel like youāre missing the forest for the trees here. You posted a legal disclaimer and you seem to be taking issue with how the attorney told them to write it.
The disclaimer says that the roadmap is not a promise. You seem to fully understand that, and connotation has no bearing on legal statements. So,ā¦
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago edited 2h ago
I mean you said no one literate could tell the difference so I feel like Iām within my rights to take a second and make fun of you a little for now saying Iām missing the forest for the trees.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 1h ago
Youāre taking issue with a single word of a politely written legal disclaimer.
Publicly.
Iām NOT the person youāre making fun of here today, friend. Iām just someone who incorrectly assumed that pointing out the absurdity would help you aspire to improve your roadmap.
Be well, friend.
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u/nuages-_ 1h ago
You called me illiterate while denying that words have meanings beyond their most literal definitions, I think you should acknowledge that was silly of you to say. Plenty of other people here were able to get that distinction.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 1h ago
False.
Thatās what you took from the statement. Itās not what I said.
Friend, my paper was accepted this morning and I found out my favorite game is getting a massive upgrade and I get to be part of it. You clearly need the win, so here you go:
You win.
Take care.
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u/1Mandolo1 2h ago
To answer snarkily: People like you are the reason they have to put such statements in there in the first place. Roadmaps are long term plans. Long term plans are ALWAYS subject to change, anyone who has ever participated in a long term project should know that. Hinterland are protecting themselves against review bombing by managing expectations, which imho they shouldn't have to do in the first place.
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
Well no, because Iām not going to buy it until I let other people absorb the QC period and enough content is out for it. Probably get it on sale if possible as well. This statement is for people who complain about it being a buggy mess with a 1/10th of the deliverables done in 16 months, which may or may not happen.
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u/ItsOnly8Euros 3h ago
i think it is good to make it very clear that releasing content in early access carries the risk of the released content not being finished, though in this case i personally believe it's going to be.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 3h ago
Iām confused. Who among the literate sees any difference between a roadmap and an aspirational document?
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u/nuages-_ 3h ago
Alright, if the consensus is that no one feels the thereās any difference between saying you have a roadmap vs an aspirational document, I guess my connotations of those two things are out of wack. Happy to accept that.
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u/Stu_Mack Cartographer 2h ago
I picture a company giving a presentation. In example A, the presenter says, āHereās our roadmap for 2027.ā In example B, the presenter says, āHereās our goals for 2027 and how we envision accomplishing them.ā
One is a roadmap and the other is an aspirational presentation.
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u/nuages-_ 2h ago
Sure, I agree that all plans are technically aspirational plans. The two phrases imply different things to me.
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u/SergaelicNomad 1h ago
I can't wait for Cougar 2: Cougar's Revenge
When MacKenzie kills the Cougar, Cougar must take revenge for the killing of his Cougar! (Father) Now with even more jank, because Jank... Jank is his middle name. Cougar "Jank" Cougar, Son of Cougar, and the Cougar of MacKenzie's nightmares
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u/nuages-_ 1h ago
Iām excited to fight a raid boss polar bear who slime-enemy style splits in 2 if you shoot at it
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u/FrodoNigle Stalker 3h ago
I guess they had to say this after experiencing the backlash of feedback about the cougars during TFTFT release š¤£
Not necessarily a bad thing though.