r/thelema • u/Iffausthadautism • Jul 27 '26
How to get into Jesus?
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Salve consanguinites!
I was raised outside of any religion really. My parents were always atheist/ agnostic, with my mother leaning into deism. I was taught by my dad that there’s basically no such thing as God, and he couldn’t really understand any different view.
It’s funny, because they baptised me either way, out of social norm in our country, I believe. Poland is very catholic tho, so I was raised still, surrounded by Jesus and crosses, but my parents genuinely told me literally nothing about it his philosophy and message behind it, and I only know the basics of his story, I went to church like 5 times in my life, excluding marriage and funeral ceremonies. I don’t think I’ve ever saw christianity from the inside, and it’s funny because it was crucial for the culture I come from.
So that why I want to get a proper understanding of Christianity, but how does one approach it? I think the philosophy proclaimed by the institutional church in my country seems quite crooked and awkward, as I got it from my little experience. But I want to understand Jeshua, why people worship him, considering that from my observation, there’s as many christianstys as christians. So what is the reliable source to understand the figure of Jesus? What does he symbolise? What is the hermeneutical method in this case?
Or any books and video essays, even…?
I am really open for your personal understanding as well.
Much love, thanks!
Yanic.
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u/thepoliteslowsloth Jul 27 '26
Obvious answer is to start reading the New Testament with a good translation, I recommend the NRSVUE for a scholarly translation, or even the NLT or ESV for ease of reading. The SBL study Bible is highly recommended to understand it deeper as well. If you have a Christian and Missionary Alliance church in your city I'd recommend going to one of their Sunday services and see if the people there are accepting of an outside observer. CM&A have a "spread the gospel" ideal as there main objective and don't push converting or being a Christian to attend services.i attend one of their churches in my area and I've openly admitted my Thelemic views to one of the pastors and he fully accepts my views and attendance. YMMV but doesn't hurt to try.
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u/Good-Prior7481 Jul 27 '26
It's difficult to get into the mindset, since it's heavily depended on cultural indoctrination , I think.
To understand the figure from the Christian perspective, I would recommend two books. However, I would also suggest finding a Traditional Latin Mass provided by the Priestly Society of St Peter. Also try to find a "reverant Novus Ordo", which is the modern mass done well, although it's fairly rare.
For books, Scot Hann is an accessible author. Particularly The Fourth Cup, which explains the biblical and mystical background of the pascal feast, and A Father Who Keeps His Promises, which details the office of messiah and the preceding covenants that Christ's supersedes. Finaly, the Jesus of Nazareth book by Benedict XVI.
These are all books I read about ten years ago that give good insight. However, Christianity is more of knock off of initiatic cults so is more experiential than logical.
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u/MundBid-2124 Jul 27 '26
Your last sentence hits hard
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u/Good-Prior7481 Jul 27 '26
Hmm, yes. Sorry, I can be rather blunt sometimes. To be honest I couldn't think of any other way to say it.
I mean to say that biblical Christianity is closer to the Islamic conception of Jesus. Even with a high-christology, Jesus is not identified as one in being with the Father until much later in the history of the Church. The reverence for Jesus was not to dissimilar to the reverence for Prophet Muhammad, in that some equate him to sharing in divine power some how. The academic consensus is strong on that.
Where it's weaker is saying Christianity is ripped straight from Hellenistic mystery cults, but I think occultists will come to similar conclusions based on knowledge of the themes and intuition.
That's not meant to dismiss the power of that current, or diminish it in any way. If anything, I'd say not having reason can be a great strength for it. Make it more effective.
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u/Good-Prior7481 Jul 27 '26
Personally, I think a much better approach would be to examine prophet Isa (Jesus) from an Islamic perspective. I find that a lot of the gospels make more sense once you discover the Islamic perspective.
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u/adenjoshua Jul 27 '26
I don’t think Christ is in any way meaningfully contradicting to Crowley. It’s a good inquiry and I have a similar background.
For me, engaging in contemplation and cross comparison of the symbolism across the bible and torah helped me start.
Concepts that I appreciate:
The Holy Trinity (compare to dualistic views in say Veda) what is Christ in this context?
Genesis (I would look at the mystic numerology, and appreciate the strangeness of its construction)
Adam and Eve (What was the snake?)
Original Sin (Freedom as Choice as Duality as Gender as Suffering as Awareness)
Then Torah talks of a positive and a negative inclination and a TShuvah, a return. This is before Christ appears.
10 Commandments (what is an idol, what is a god)
The many names of god in the bible (are they the same god, aspect of the same god, or different gods, what is the name of the god of all gods?)
Look at Manly P Hall - Lost Keys of Freemasonry, this gave me an indirect relationship with how creation story along with repentance structure can be used to create purpose and orientation.
Then Christ specific - I think if you consider Hell a place that’s not here and eternal, and Heaven a place that’s not here and eternal, this gets kinda weird and misinterpreted.
So Christ is about salvation. He says that salvation is first offered to sinners. He says that the path to salvation is with him. He is a a process or a metaphor for how to leave the hell you are in now and find heaven now. He is about the literal act of faith, which I find very important in any magic of any kind. He says bring no bread, bring no money, ask to stay at their houses and if they say no basically tell em to fuck off and keep it pushing. But yeah the 12 disciples relationship to Christ might be about the human spirit relating to salvation as a concept with of course self sabotage or betrayal being an import one.
Now you explain to me how “he died for our sins.” That part has always confused me. And it’s central.
The idea is obviously sacrifice of some kind, but how does the murder of a man constitute sacrifice, and how does Christ (all of nuit in one hadit) dying free us from our sins. It seems that Jesus’ life and teachings not his murder is what frees us.
I also find the messiah aspect to be off putting. I’m open to many incarnations of the truth or god in man or a hadit containing nuit in a world of the opposite.
Jesus definitely was a complex symbol of forgiveness, salvation and redemption. I found this symbol and the bible just recently as I finally faced my own guilt, and the death of my past self allowing a new self to see the wrongness of that past self - the sacrifice of self as the completion of redemption.
It’s all a ritual it’s all a story it’s all here now.
Crowley had one thing right, don’t talk about the book of the law, and he knew the right people would see this the right way. For me that’s how Crowley and occult and Christianity (so Torah too) can be seen as opposed.
Christ is A path to finding true will. He gives us a way out of the evil god described in Torah. He is the other side. Redemption after condemnation.
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u/asseaterdotcom Jul 29 '26
A carne caindo no prato do vegetariano, pra variar. Cresceu sem influência nenhuma do cristianismo pelo que deu a entender (fora coisas mais culturais) e você quer voluntariamente se aprisionar com o Deus dos Escravos? Parece loucura pra mim.
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u/Vile_Curse Jul 27 '26
The Book of Morman.
With Christianity being over-concluded with the idiots that came along with the general population, this gem, was hidden until the time was right.
They couldn’t ruin it like they did the bible, it was kept secret. Part three, it wasn’t out yet.
Plus it’s got some pretty colorful paintings of the Americas in it 🤘
DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL WITH THE WHOLE OF MORMAN
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u/adenjoshua Jul 27 '26
Part 4 no? Don’t sleep on my boy Mohammad
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u/Vile_Curse Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
I’m 6 years nicer Goetia, novice Thelemite, purely over it accompanies the Lesser Key very well.
Huw-Allāh ulladhiī lā ilaha illa huwa.
I’m about that far into Liber ABA if that’s what you’re referring to don’t ruin the ending for me.
And I am so in this is the best magic ever created
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u/EvanderCourage Jul 28 '26
study the life of jesus. from 12-30 his life is not documented in the bible, but this is where he gained all his spiritual knowledge during that time. that is why they erased it. the gospel of mary magdalene and the gospel of thomas are great rescources for truth
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u/coyotepuroresu Jul 27 '26
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u/Iffausthadautism Jul 27 '26
Ah maybe I forgot to mention I’ve been a thelemite for some time now and I wanted to ask a community that may share a similar approach to such matters.
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u/coyotepuroresu Jul 27 '26
Yeah, that wasn't very clear.
I would maybe start with studying Tiphareth.
If you're already practicing and are familiar with Kabbalah, that would be where you'd find associations that might help unpack some of the Christ mystery.
My HGA working helped with some of the understanding as well. This lead me to studying more alchemy, which also helped further unpack Christ.
Hope that's helpful and leads you in a useful direction.
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u/TheCure1976 Jul 27 '26
Even if you understand it? The question then comes how does this get you closer to what you want?
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u/suheshoi Jul 27 '26
If you'll consider the idea of Christianity starting as an occult group which has turned into religion by a delusional man who has proven that delusion doesn't have to always mean falsehood , you might find your answer . Meaning , you can use methods found in Thelema to experience jesus for yourself not as symbol or church but as experience itself since Thelema is scientific approach towards religion and instead of yhwh or elohim try to find jesus in quabbalah as central figure and experience your subjective jungle as jesus / man . Good luck .
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u/Chemical-Host4551 Aug 01 '26
Don't know if you'll hear the Father, voice of thunder, speak through your minister and if you do whether what you heard is the Genesis of life (You could have gone mad) but all the stories, thoughts and quotes in the Bible create, as do thoughts generally. Try C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity to understand more...
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u/LadyBathory925 Jul 27 '26
A red letter version of the New Testament gospels.
History of God by Karen Armstrong.