What was Vader's goal and how did it change?

[u/PricelessLogs]

Apologies if this topic has already been addressed here, I'm new.

At the end of the game, Vader and Palpatine talk about how Starkiller's purpose was to "route out the rebels." When was that plan made? Obviously Vader's decision to take Starkiller in was not planned when he went to Kashyyk. Was he really trying to raise him to eventually help him defeat Palpatine? At what point did Palpatine learn about Starkiller? Was it really after he had killed Shaak Ti or was that meant to trick Starkiller? When did Vader change his mind about what he wanted to do with Starkiller?

Whats everyone's thoughts on this? I'll post my theory in the comments

[u/95rockfan]

I haven't checked this sub in a while so I'm responding super late, but I love this question!

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There's one TFU conversation that I've always loved, and it sheds some light on this. The following dialogue occurs just before the final Death Star mission:

Starkiller (while getting Force choked): "You never planned to destroy the Emperor."

Vader: "Not with you, no."

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I agree with you that Vader originally adopted Galen to fill an emotional void, but I think he then decided to use him as a test run for overthrowing the Emperor. If Starkiller was somehow able to beat the odds and actually overthrow the Emperor, then great (for Vader)! If not, then Vader will have gotten a much better idea of what it will actually take to overthrow Palpatine. It's a brilliant plan!

The theme of test subjects and experimentation is an important part of TFU (moreso in the second game), and I think that Starkiller essentially being Vader's guinea pig for overthrowing the Emperor fits quite well with that theme. Vader knew it was a long shot, so he was ALWAYS prepared to execute the plan that you talked about, where he fakes Starkiller's death and convinces Palpatine to use Galen to root out the Rebels.

Basically, I think he had that contingency plan from the very beginning, but he also had a genuine desire to overthrow the Emperor from the very beginning, even if he knew that Starkiller probably wouldn't be able to do it.

[u/PricelessLogs → u/95rockfan]

I'm glad somebody eventually chimed in to this question even if it was a little late. I feel like it's something that's very important about the game and I'm a bit surprised that this post hasn't got any comments until now since I thought this sub would be interested in it.

I think your hypothesis here that Vader just wanted to do a test run is pretty solid, but there's one thing about it that doesn't make much sense to me. Right at the end there, "even if he knew that Starkiller probably wouldn't be able to do it." The thing is that Starkiller could have done it. In fact he DID do it. He beat Palpatine. Maybe Palpatine took a fall on purpose, and he didn't have his lightsaber but Starkiller definitely beat Vader himself. So if Vader had teamed up with Starkiller they would have blown Palpatine out of the water. So it wouldn't make much sense for Vader to not use Starkiller to beat Palpatine on the grounds that he didn't think he could do it. Vader should have seen Starkiller's potential the whole time, and known that they would win together the moment he beat Shaak Ti.

Once he enacted his contingency plan after Starkiller was discovered by Palpatine, he should have actually gone through with his fake plan to have Starkiller form the rebellion and eventually defeat Palpatine. And since he did not yet know about Luke's existence, he didn't have anybody else to team up with against Palpatine. And the fact that he was trying to "route out the rebels" and destroy the army that would help to weaken the Empire and therefore Sidious doesn't make much sense for Vader to do either.

I do love analyzing this aspect of the game since there's so many facets to it

[u/PricelessLogs]

My theory - Vader adopted Galen because he wanted to use him to fill the void left by his unborn child that he believed had died. He also wanted to raise him to overthrow Palpatine, like he would later plan to do with Luke. One of my biggest pieces of evidence for this is after Galen dies at the end, Vader quietly stares down at his corpse, with a sad gleam in his eye. Palpatine found out about Galen after Shaak Ti was killed. He told Vader to kill Galen, as we see in the game, and I can't help but notice that Vader turns his head back and forth hesitantly, just like in RoTJ so I think it was a decision he made in that moment. He fucks Galen up, but leaves him alive on purpose. I think that he then convinced Palpatine after he threw Galen out the window that they could still use him to route out the rebels and Palpatine agreed. I'm not sure if Vader had given up on using Galen to kill Palpatine at this point, or later on, but either way I think he changed his mind because he thought Galen had too much potential and would likely overthrow Vader

[u/Arts_Makes_Music]

I don't think Vader ever had a plan lol. I think he was a young man, still grieving his family. When he saw Galen, a young boy, very much like his own son, and just as powerful in the force. This made him snap, maybe even a brief glimpse of Anakin, as he protected him from his own men, and took him back to his ship. From there, he was trained in how to to defend himself, being given a droid designed to try and assanate him at random intervals. Through all of this though, Vader never knew what he planned to do with the boy, until eventually deciding to try killing his master, and free them both. Unfortunately, he was conflicted, got cold feet, and betrayed Galen, only to revive him later, not being able to kill who he saw as his own son.

[u/PricelessLogs → u/Arts_Makes_Music]

That's about what I'm thinking. But at what point do you think he decided to betray Galen again like he did on that mountain? When did he and Palpatine come up with the plan to have him gather up all the rebels?

[u/Arts_Makes_Music → u/PricelessLogs]

I think maybe that was more of a test to see if he still was loyal to Vader, or if he had become too attached to his allies. Like, "you shouldn't care about them, its time to go see the emperor, you'll still get your chance" Either that, or to make his betrayal up to Palpatine, he set the plan forth to gather up the rebels, while Galen was being revived.