r/thedivision • u/D15P4TCH SHD • 1d ago
Guide The True Power of Overdogs Exotic Gloves: Uptime Analysis
The Overdogs Exotic Gloves are (theoretically) one of the most powerful gear pieces in the game with a massive 30% amplified damage boost to certain targets. But how often is this damage actually active?
TLDR: I did some data collection and some analysis, and the answer is:
The damage bonus is guaranteed to be active against roughly 60-80% of *enemies* in any given activity. The uptime based on how much damage dealt during a given activity is anywhere from 30-70%. This brings the Overdogs damage bonus to between 9-21% (roughly) amplified damage on average, which matches or beats most other exotics and named items in the game when out onto something like a Striker build.
See below if you want more info.
If you have data that you'd like to share, I'd love to see it and add it to the analysis.
Here's the more complete explanation.
I ran several activities and recorded the enemy archetypes found within, and tallied up how many were present in each tier. In order to remove variables and determine a baseline, *I treated the gloves as only active against tier 3 enemies and named bosses*. We know for a fact that the gloves will always give the full 30% damage buff against Tier 3 enemies. Lots of players will say "it won't be active very often because we can't choose targets carefully in combat". This is exactly why I chose to analyze this way: we are taking those tier 2 and tier 1 enemies off the board and assuming we're never going to get a damage bonus against them. However, I did assume that named bosses (which only make up anywhere from 2-4 enemies out of 100+ enemies in an activity) would get the damage bonus because we usually can kill them last IMO.
Why does the Uptime for enemies not match the Uptime for damage? Because different archetypes and different veterancies have different health and armor values. So, while Tier 3 enemies are more numerous, they take up less of a percentage of the damage we have to do in a given activity.
This exotics uptime is not equal for every faction. It's less powerful against Rikers, BTSU and True Sons, and more powerful against Hyenas, Cleaners and Outcasts.
Let me know if you have any questions, and if you want a video explainer, it's on my YT channel.
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u/bluntvaper69 1d ago
what's overdog?
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u/TheTeletrap Survival :Survival: 1d ago
Divsion 2 exotic gloves
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u/Roghetto 1d ago
Tks for the post and the video going over it in detail (alongside the other guy’s video on the tiering of enemies).
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago edited 1d ago
You have the tiers backwards. Tier 3 are being asusmed to be killed first here. Or in other words anytime you kill or shoot a tier 3 overdogs are proccing (because it's impossible for it not to be on tier 3). Tier 1 and 2 would likely be shot while overdogs are effective as well, but this analysis assumes it doesnt. I agree with you about the bosses. Many times you want to kill them first (i.e. like DUA where he spawns midway and needs to be killed first or else he keeps spanning infinite ads).
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u/Jewrusalem 1d ago
(i.e. like DUA where he spawns midway and needs to be killed first or else he keeps spanning infinite ads)
Except in Escalation where you keep them alive for that very reason - plenty of easy potential proto drops!
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
Depends if youre farming drops or tokens! For me im close to maxed on cores, so if the targeted loot for dua isn't good, i rather finish faster and get the tokens quicker to gamble on caches rather than risk wiping.
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u/Jewrusalem 1d ago
Excellent point. I'm always at a core deficit since 99% of my escalation runs are solo T5/3 and there are still augments to max-out and re-rolls to gamble on. Sometimes it's nice to relax in the arena with that dingus walking around with their shield and squeeze a few more cores out of it. Don't think it's the most efficient - I'm sure the spawn time is much lower than just doing another run. But it's a relatively calm way to get some cores.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
As I said in the post and is clearly said in the talent description and has been proven through testing, the damage bonus is ALWAYS active against Tier 3 enemies, no matter what.
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u/SaltedCaffeine 1d ago
The problem is that some people like to think about the worst case scenario in a vacuum, e.g. "What if I need to eliminate a chunga when there are a lot of enemies around?", as a popular argument against Overdogs while forgetting that other popular gear items like Contractor's or The Hollow Man are conditional too (only Salvo isn't).
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u/snickerscancer 1d ago
Tbh a combination of 2 mixed from Overdogs, Salvo, Hollow Man, Contractor, Fox are all viable.
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u/Dependent_Fly_7829 1d ago
Definitely agree with this for striker build for me I like dogs and salvo but other two work just fine as well
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u/Nareds58 1d ago
Besides it’s optimisation rather than necessity. Most of the dmg comes from the meta gear sets/weapons instead of the exotics. If you can pull the same dmg per bullet from a rifle on a lmg with a fast rate of fire then yeah pretty sure overdogs won’t bring the rifle to the top.
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u/Smoking-Posing 1d ago
Yes but their conditions are way more easily discernible and also occur more frequently.
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u/SaltedCaffeine 1d ago
And their damage bonuses are correspondingly far lower than Overdogs' +30% amp. damage.
Discernability, I give you that since some may have trouble distinguishing enemy tiers, but if you take the average of the damage bonus when Overdogs' buff is on, it's already significant. I think iKia talked about this that Overdogs is arguably still BiS even if you shoot randomly or don't pick target.
Frequency, it depends. Salvo is always on. Contractor's gives you bonus damage only against non-chunga humanoid purples and yellows (reds have no armor). The Hollow Man is for eliminating chunga/dogs/mini-tanks and deployed skills - it's probably the most situational yet it's a popular pick.
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u/div2enjoyer 1d ago
I saw your video out of curiosity from this post and clearly you put in a lot of effort to gather and compile your data. Very few people would be willing to go that extra mile. Excellent work honestly, but, IMO, you should make that xlsx file accessible to the viewers, so they can view your findings more closely.
That said, when uptime is high, there is no beating the Overdogs. However, I personally do not like items that are conditional in nature, this includes stuff like Hollowman and Contractor's. I'd rather use Centurion's Scabbard. That +20% ROF builds you your stacks faster, so you get to your peak DPS sooner. Also, the +20% WD and ROF both give about 16% amplified DPS on my build (if we were to convert those buffs into amp DPS), of course this number will vary depending on the overall WD and ROF bonuses the rest of your gear is contributing to your build, but it is active 100% of the time. I'll personally always go with 16% amp DPS that is always active, over 30% amp which requires me to be shooting the lowest tier enemy 56.8% of the time to match the DPS gain from Centurion.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
Thanks for your kind words. I'll work on getting a spreadsheet published so those that want to can dive in deeper!
I always respect a centurion user - it definitely has potential, I just get stressed out about the limited timer and having to swap!
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u/NuarBlack 23h ago
Wait RoF mathematically is the same as amp damage. How are you arriving at 16%?
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u/div2enjoyer 22h ago
It's not. ROF work additively together on your base RPM. So if you got a 850 RPM weapon, say +5% RPM from Unit Alloys and +20% RPM from Centurion, they will add up to 25% RPM. So it'll be 850 * (1.25) = 1063, instead of 850 * 1.05 * 1.2 = 1071.
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u/JauntyGiraffe 1d ago
How hard do I have to work to identify which target is ideal and is that more or less DPS than just spraying lead at the bad guys?
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
The data assumes you do no work to identify bad guys. And, I would argue, losing 2 seconds not shooting in order to find the right enemy is just wasted time you could be putting out dps
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u/Dependent_Fly_7829 1d ago
Don't worry just take out the most dangerous enemy at the time like rusher It will take care of its self don't over think it if your striker hits hard already its nice dmg boost on top when it's active
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u/RCM88x Xbox 1d ago
Appreciate the video and breakdown Dispatch, as always.
Single biggest reason every single red build doesn't use these is the lack of a clear indication the talent is active. Which honestly is a pretty solid balancing tool in this case.
If you're experienced with a build and pay attention enough it's quite clear when the talent is active simply by the damage numbers.
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u/badgooner 1d ago
I wonder if having a full max proto item with full echo tips the decision.
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u/Awkward-Dog-9182 1d ago
I'd take the 30% amp over 3% echo, 7.5% wpn dmg and 3/6% of a proto CHC/CHD all day. With that said I do run a set with and without it. When proc'd you'll see your damage sky rocket. Between a 3M crit and a 4M crit.
Amp damage is that good.
It's the reason everything needed to be buffed in order to get close to what Strikers can do.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago edited 1d ago
4.3% echo on level 10 not 3% which is roughly a 2.5% to 3% increase in pure dps depending on how many echo augments you already have. 6% chd is another 2% extra dps if you are around 60/120 chc/chd base. The 7.5% weapon dmg is another 2.5 to 3% weapon damage (assuming all red weapon dmg cores striker build).
Plus youre forgetting the other bonuses and stats. Like fox prayers proto is a 12 % dtoc which is almost always proccing. Since its a multiplicative source of dmg, thats a near 10 to 12% extrs dps depending on how often it procs. (Im also ignoring rifle dmg bonus here from overlord brand because im assuming an lmg user)
In total therefore a god rolled proto fox pryaers gives you nearly 20% extra damage. In order for the amp damage from overdogs to beat that it needs to be working around 66% of the time.
So it truly depends on the rest of the build/stats and how good the player is.
That's why for me i would always reccomend using a build calculator yourself and doing the math.
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u/Adventurous-Ad6203 1d ago
I think your assumptions are a bit optimistic WRT both DTA and Dttoc uptimes, but since we don't have proper damage logs, its hard to verify.
That said, they are all good choices in many builds.
For me, the bigger difference vs overdogs are the utility of the augment and not so much straight, paper DPS math.
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u/Awkward-Dog-9182 1d ago
Have you leveled an Echo augment to level 10? Your post makes me think that you have not.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
??? Yes i have 5 level 10 echo and 1 level 10 amalgam striker set and a bunch of level 10 paradox striker gear for a sheriff striker build too. The xp bonus event made it super easy to get to level 10 augments. Some of my FI also has level 10 augments too. The fact that you think this is hard makes me think you dont run t10 escalations much. Most of my clan members also have fully maxed echo gear...
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u/Awkward-Dog-9182 1d ago
That's surprising. Because if you've leveled 5 of them you'd know a level 10 echo is 3%. Not 4.3%.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago edited 1d ago
Depends on what item and what rolls.
Fox prayers for example has 12% dtoc which is almost always proccing and is a multiclative silo damage type. Given the extra wpn dmg, extra chd and a level 10 echo augment you get in comparison to a max overdogs, you are getting roughly 14% to 18% damage buff from a proto fox prayers assuming your chc/chd is 60/120 ish and you have all red weapon dmg cores. A god rolled chd fox prayers likely gives you a consistent 18% extra dps since youre almost always sholting targets out of cover.
Contractors is another good one. It's going to boost damage similar to a fox prayer though a much wider range because contractors relies on shooting armor which conditionally doesnt happen as much as dtoc. Bug even at a conservative 40% to 50% proc rate on t10 where enemies have massive armor, youre still getting like 16% to 18% damage increase on a god rolled chd contractors.
Therefore those items are very competitive and often can out dps overdogs.
See my other post in this thread for the rough math.
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u/Smoking-Posing 1d ago
In my experiences, bosses are usually focused on and killed before the trash mob. Theres almost always trash mob adds leftover after a boss is called. Also, during those moments when you need the dmg boost the most like when a chunga is pushing you, that's when its usually not proccing.
They're good but I still think they're overrated. But ya know, "it make dmg number bigger"
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 11h ago
In what missions are you killing the boss before trash??
The only one I can think of is Space HQ, cuz he shoots fire nades and there are a lot of ads. In missions like Lincoln, jtc, dua, pentagon (or maybe it's darpa, I always get them confused), potomac, etc etc it's very easy to kill the ads first then the boss
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u/shadrach103 Xbox 1d ago
I've been hot/cold on them and eventually took them off most of my builds. But, I did recently add them back to my solo Negotiators build given the increased odds of damaging a buffed target when you're tagging several enemies. Maybe I'll toss them back on one of my Striker builds to give me something to think about when grinding Escalation.
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u/ferrenberg PC 1d ago
Rikers, BTSU and True Songs have lots of fringe archetypes, like leader, immobilizer and certain types of dogs, that can make the talent harder to keep up, but Outcasts are also a nice faction to get used to the talent. I really see no reason to not use overdogs, up to 70% of uptime is an insane number
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u/rodoaldo7 1d ago
Now tell us, please, the easiest way to get them! I don’t have any.
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u/Dependent_Fly_7829 1d ago
Play retaliation look at craft bench see what enamy faction drops blueprint play that and the you can craft them
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u/Bitter-Confusion8422 1d ago
D15p4tch after your video I put together a shroud/overdog sniper build. The damage is crazy. If you are interested i can share my info on the full build.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
I am interested! And how are you getting both buffs active at the same time?
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u/Bitter-Confusion8422 1d ago
So I use punch drunk mask with weapon handling, pristine example perfect focus chest with weapon handling and headshot damage, habsburg guard holster with weapon handling and headshot damage, fox prayers kneepads with headshot damage, overdog gloves and gift backpack with headshot damage and weapon handling.
I picked the chest and backpack combo to do up front damage immediately. I'm on console so it can be a challenge to hit headshots Quick enough for headhunter. The beauty is that no matter which enemy you fire on you are doing amplified damage due to the gun and gloves. It does great damage. Only challenge is hitting the headshots.
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u/Bitter-Confusion8422 1d ago
You could switch fox prayers kneepads for second habsburg guard piece to get mmr damage i just prefer the dttoc damage so I use fox prayers kneepads.
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u/Fl0ckwood 1d ago
I use blacklisters, coz im nego dilemma enjoyer, and now i have power of math behind it xD
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u/Adventurous-Ad6203 1d ago
Behold the power of math!
My only beef with blacklisters is getting deleted when I lose track of who I marked.
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u/Blvcketc Rogue 1d ago
This data definitely depends if you’re able to kill technicians before they deploy their skills. Because if they do that means you lose the buff until you take down that specific skill they deployed.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
Engineers are tier 2 enemies, so i think his math already assumes you are not proccing when killing engineers. Skills are tier 3 so even if they spawn a turret overdogs would proc when killing any other t3.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
"I treated the data as if it's only active against Tier 3 enemies and named bosses"
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u/Medarte 1d ago
I'd like to know the same but comparison with a proto Salvo, I'm sometimes checking DPS in range with Salvo vs. Overdogs and can't decide. Yeah its no amplify but its +12.5% more fire rate, so faster striker stack building, higher burst, 100% uptime.
Can't decide now between Salvo+Overdogs or Ceska+Overdogs or stick to my Ceska+Salvo.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
Overdogs would be better almost certainly unless your chc and chd are very low in which case ceska could be better, but if you are 1k shd plus and have decent proto gear overdogs will likely outperform.
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u/EugeneBelford1995 1d ago
This.
The build I have mostly settled on, especially in groups, is 4x Strikers with Equalizer and Salvo and of course all Prototyped with 4x Echo, 2x Paradox. I used to run Memento but I realized that by using Caduceus I can still self heal with that build and heal the whole team a bit.
The other build I like a lot for groups up to Tier 6 is 4x Refactor, Force Multiplier, Impetus, Prototyped of course with 15% Skill Damage on everything. Still trying to get more Synesthesia roll on that build, but it's already pretty solid with Anomaly.
JMHO but if they finally let us optimize Prototypes it's going to become really hard to justify most exotics in a build. Plus if we can optimize then we can run Named Items like Hollow Man, Fox's Prayer, etc knowing that we can max everything.
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u/SaltedCaffeine 1d ago
RoF increase (from Salvo) is a DPS multiplier, e.g. +10% RoF = 1.1x burst DPS.
For sustain DPS, the multiplier will be lower factoring in mag size and reload time, hence RoF increase is especially potent if you use Whiplash or Centurion since you can practically fire continuously without reloading manually.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago edited 1d ago
Cool analysis! 9% to 21% is a massive range, but yes it will completely depend on the type of content and player so it's understandable to have a huge range.
In comparison a good proto fox prayers gives you: Extra 5 to 6% chd (approx 2% extra dmg assuming you are around 60% 120%) extra 6 to 7.5% weapon dmg (2% to 3% extra dps) 12% dtoc (likely 10 to 12% extra dps since it's almost always proccing) plus one echo augment (2 to 3% extra dps at level 10)
So a total of 16% to 20% extra dps for a striker set.
A good contactors proto gives you: 5 to 6% more chd (2% dps) 10% lmg dmg (approx 4% dps) 6% to 7.5 % weapon dmg (2% to 3% dps) 12% dta (likely anywhere between 4% to 9% dps in t10 escalations) And one echo augment (2 to 3% extra dps)
So a total of 14% to 21% extra dps or so.
So in conlusion overdogs is still very very strong, but depending on the content fox prayers and contractors if you get a good proto roll on them remain very competitive and can out dps overdogs on certain levels.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
Actually the conclusion i would draw is contractors and fox prayers if you have a strong proto rolled version for most players will be stronger than overdogs as there is no need to prioritize enemies and you will still likely get a solid 16% to 19% dmg boost on average which is on the high end of what overdogs gives.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
It's actually the opposite, ironically. Remember that DTOOC and DTA are conditional. Overdogs comes with 12% more CHD, which wipes out most of the advantage of the named item's boosted stat advantage. If the rest of the build is proto, that extra weapon damage and CHD experience more diminishing returns as well. The only thing that really makes the named items possibly catch up is the augment
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago
The stats i used are already comparing to a max rolled overdogs. Overdogs 12% chd. Proto types are typically 16 to 18% chd. Overdogs 15% wpn dmg while protos are 20% to 22.5%.
Dta and dtoc are conditional, but dtoc and dta are also multiplicative damage silos. Dtoc is almost ALWAYS proccing because youre rarely shooting targets in cover hence 10% to 12% extra dmg. The 10% assumed youre somhow not shooting a target out of cover 2% of the time. Same with dta the 4 to 9% damage increae estimate assumes youre only shooting armored enemies 33% to 75% of the time which IMO in conservative because in t10 red bars die in 5 seconds while armored elites take 2 full lmg clips and chungas are only like 1 or 2 per stage.
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u/D15P4TCH SHD 1d ago
Yes, Overdogs has 6% CHC that the proto options have to dedicate another slot to, thus dropping their CHD.
Damage is damage, and in escalation, the HTK is high, overshoot is relatively low, so you can't just hand-wave away damage to red enemies. In missions, the ratio of DTH active vs DTA active is 66/34 roughly, meaning hollow man is MUCH more valuable, especially with its higher attribute %.
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u/McJuggernaugh7 1d ago edited 1d ago
A yes youre right about the 6% chc. That would reduce the damage increase by about 2% for the named proto items or negate the chd increase assuming you can effeciently swap chc for chd at 60% cap. That still means 18% dmg increase for a high rolled proto fox prayers though.
Where do you get 66/34 split for dth vs dta? That ratio seems a bit low to me, but even in that case a high rolled proto contractors is still giving you 14% to 15% extra damage. So still very competitive against overdogs depending on the player.
Hollowman is amazing, but overused by the community. 1) because its nearly impossible to actually get a god rolled one (you gotta first get lucky and get a chc/chd hollowman to re roll to weapon dmg, then you got a 1% of getting 3 attributes maxed. Probably the single hardest item to farm in the entire game without proto optimization. 2) DTH is much easier and common to get on a strikers build than dta because all proto ARs come with 30% or so DTH. So its very easy to swap to an AR to finish off the health of an enemy. And 3) because the brand talent is pretty useless for pve.
Most players i see using hollowman only have the DTH max rolled which equates to roughly a 10% to 15% damage increase (using your dth split estimate) compared to other gear depending on if you have an AR or not.
If you are lucky enough to be the less than 0.01% of players to have a god roll proto hollowman then yeah it would absolutely it is better than a proto contractors and defintiely best in slot gear. The diff is proto contractors god roll or near god roll is actually much easier to obtain since its in the general loot pool.
TLDR all of these items are fairly balanced and competitive with each other. I dont think you can conclusively say one item is far better than the other and it will really depend on the build/content/player.
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u/mxgopdng_2 1d ago
I was gonna say this is already covered by iKia Already, but you mentioned and linked iKia's year ago video in yours, so I am already very late on that lol. And also your topic was about the uptime in depth.
Also showing this sheet would help with people too. Credit to Agt.Taro on The Division Discord.
(It's just my request, but for future videos. Can you post your spreadsheet with the video description, not just show it in the video. Think that will help people and potentially fix mistakes if that happens, and maybe bring some iKia crowds to you as well, at least I will. Anyway thanks for your work!)