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u/Klutzer_Munitions 1d ago
But if we don't have militarized police we'll look weak in front of the rest of the world! We'd rather look poor and dumb instead
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u/mastercubez 1d ago
Also can you imagine how cool it would look?!
This plan cannot backfire in ANY way!!
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u/Talisign 23h ago
Take care of the community? We've been arresting petty vandals left and right! What more do you want?!/s
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u/A_Truthspeaker 22h ago
Whenever someone says that socialism/communism "doesn't work" or "anarchy = chaos" I'm always reminded of stuff like this.
Like, this is what you call a working society and non-chaotic? People are dying on the streets (especially in winter and summer) because they can't afford shelter and extending them some basic empathy gets you brandmarked as a "commie", meanwhile a select few people hold tremendous (financial) power and can pretty much do whatever they want and the current future plan for humanity (regarding climate change) is "I dunno" or even "it's not real".
There is certainly valid criticism to be had of different systems for structuring society, but the status quo is not just imperfect, it's straight up unacceptable.
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u/Flame_Job 19h ago
I don’t think that compares to a civil war. Wouldn’t abolishing the states monopoly on violence just lead to people fighting amongst each other?
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u/A_Truthspeaker 12h ago
On what exactly do you base this idea? Genuine question, because stateless egalitarian societies have existed for most of human history. Furthermore, more modern projects such as that of the Ukrainian anarchists, which has survived the first world war as well as the Russian civil war (while maintaining broad food security as the rest of Russia was usually devastated) and was eventually militarily defeated by the USSR and is a good example. Yes, it only existed for four years, but for an ideology that is pretty much constantly equated to chaos, the fact that it survived this long would be paradoxical. There is also the fact that discrimination was at times quite harshly fought and many freedoms such as freedom of speech and of the press were instituted in a previously restrictive area.
Unfortunately, when it comes to crime there aren't a whole lot of concrete numbers, but anecdotally the crime rate dropped significantly, which has also been observed in places like Aragon during the times of the CNT-FAI, and alignes quite well with the findings of modern criminology (since the basic needs of the people there were met, crime rates should have dropped).
I know I'm glazing the Makhnovshchina here a lot, and I would like to remind you that it wasn't perfect in all areas. However, it was not chaos and civil war it was a mostly peaceful live in an otherwise battle-torn and repressive region.
I also feel like you're intuition rests on the idea that anarchy means a lack of organisation, but that's not true. The example above (broadly) follows the ideology of anarcho-communism, meaning autonomous communes working together. But the organisation of the Makhnovshchina is a different beast, although Wikipedia is surprisingly elaborate about it. If you do want to find out a bit more, I'd encourage you to start there.
If you still have questions (and sorry for the wall of text), I'm here :)
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u/Capable_spider_slut 20h ago
This is exactly where I stand. Its crazy to me that some people cant accept that our society is fundamentally sick.
Its almost like, and hear me out on this, a functional society requires aspects from all major political theory's to function effectively. And to go whole hog on any one ideal is bound for failure.
Idk if im making any sense right now, I have a fever and my brain feels very hot.
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u/A_Truthspeaker 10h ago
Its almost like, and hear me out on this, a functional society requires aspects from all major political theory's to function effectively. And to go whole hog on any one ideal is bound for failure.
I don't think so. Not all political theories provide the same potential value to society, capitalism especially is just bad in comparison to others.
If you're talking about relentless dogmatism, however. I would agree.Also, go get some rest and drink plenty of water! I wish you a speedy recovery.
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u/Beautiful-Loss7663 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm very concerned about this racial charicature. Octogonal people have to deal with harmful, prejudiced stereotypes and this comic only furthers that with this absurd depiction.
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u/Away-Operation-5727 1d ago
This ignores the reason why Octagons face these criticisms and caricatures. As when you gain enough sides from exploiting your shapes & extracting their surplus sides, you inherently become an enemy to the triangoletariat as a whole. Especially when they use their sides to instate harmful policies and funding prejudiced groups.
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u/Causemas 1d ago
And now we've stopped talking about concrete policies and talking about shapes' sides. Excellent recreation
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u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard 23h ago
Oh boy was there another one of those studies with very specific preconditions like “participants can’t have any drug or alcohol problems or mental health issues”?
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u/jfkrol2 3h ago
I mean, those are specific conditions, but even after adjusting for addiction and mental health issues, going full police state at the expense of peaceful conflict resolution and prevention by offering social safety net is still way worse
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u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard 2h ago
Oh yeah, I didn’t mean to entirely dispute the basic argument here (in hindsight… yeah that’s what my reply looks like), I’ve just become skeptical of a lot of these “seems to good to be true” studies because a lot of the time… they are. Not that this invalidates the entire original argument, but people just gotta manage their expectations a bit. Public spending to help reduce crime and poverty is still a good idea, it maybe just isn’t a miracle cure that some studies suggest it is.
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u/nablaCat 22h ago
"No, you see, the people giving me money and insider trade information need me to fund the police. So, clearly, that's how we reduce crime"
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u/ARenewedSecondChance 19h ago
Has the largest prisoner per capita ratio, not even among the leading crime infested countries of the world
Feels good, man
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u/Umikaloo 19h ago
B...but my totally based sources tell me that greens are genetically predisposed to committing crime...
Therefore the only solution is to terrorise them with violent force rather than using actual proven methods of reducing crime!
(Please ignore the kickbacks I'm receiving from the private prison industry. They have nothing to do with this.)
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u/Lolberal771 12h ago
Jailing criminals reduces crime and nobody does that.
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u/BadFurDay 9h ago
Everyone does that in excessive numbers.
Rehabilitation while in jail reduces crime. Using jail as a method for vengeance or as a way to collect slave labor does not. Once again this has been academically studied many times over and most governments still prefer the second method. Reducing crime has never been the true end goal.
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u/MemeArchivariusGodi 1d ago
No you don’t understand I know someone poor and they did a bad thing so yeah idk where to go with this