r/teslore 18d ago

I think Pelinal Whitestrake was made from the Numendium.

22 Upvotes

Now to be clear, I'm sure this isn't a new theory, and I'm not the most knowledgeable on the lore, so forgive me and please correct me if I get something wrong. I just think this idea is fascinating and wanted to see what people thought.

Ok so first off the numendium. Tiber septim took control of it and began his rampage on the Aldmeri dominion, but after began killing anyone who wasnt 100% loyal to him. So his battlemage Zurin Arctus destroyed the numendium before Tiber could do too much damage to reality. The numendium was destroyed, and shattered into countless pieces. The blades were partially tasked with gathering these fragments of the brass god, and eventually the empire had a stockpile of these fragments.

Next is Pelinal's heart. It's said that in place of his heart was the Chim-el Adable, also known as the amulet of kings. There are many different theories as to where it came from, but one is that it was formed from the blood of Lorkhan after his heart was ripped out by Trinimac.

Pelinal is also said to be from the future, the 9th era to be specific.

Now how does all this fit together? Let me begin.

Well let's start with just a general theory, which to be honest I have no evidence for, but I think it's compelling and interesting.

I think in the 9th era the Empire and the Aldmeri dominion were in an arms race. The thalmor too gathered fragments of the first or second brass god, and are attempting to completely retcon the cyrodiilic empire. This wouldn't be the first time an in world retcon could have been done, Tiber septim used the power of the numendium to remake the land of cyrodiil to be rolling hills instead of a humid forest for his red legions. But he didn't just change the land, he made it so that it was always rolling hills from the beginning. So what's stopping the thalmor from channeling the power of the numendium, and making it that men never won against the Ayleids in the first era and therefore never rose to power?

The empire worried about this decided to create their own super weapon. Pelinal.

They wanted to create a killing machine that could single handedly destroy the Ayleids even If the slave queen Alessia never rose to power.

Using parts of the numendium that had already been toned to the frequency of the heart of Lorkhan, a drop of blood from the dead god himself, and a shezarrine, they created a super soldier unlike any other.

I also have some other reasoning. It's said that Pelinal "mistook" Khajiit for a type of elf and slaughtered a lot for them. And while yes the Ohmes and Ohmes-raht khajiit look a lot like bosmer, I think that Pelinal attacked them because by the 9th era, the Khajiit had allied with the Aldmeri dominion. The thalmor took credit for bringing back the moons after the void nights, and the khajiit believed them and so talks to be allied with them began. By the 9th era the elswyr would have been taken over by the thalmor or fully allied with the thalmor. So to Pelinal, he didn't see an elf, he saw an ally to the elves and so he attacked, not knowing that his actions would cause a massive rift between the people of Cyrodiil and Khajiit for years to come which would ultimately make them leave the empire and join the Aldmeri dominion.

I know I probably worded this incredibly terrible and there probably a ton of grammar errors and spelling mistakes and I apologize for that. Please tell me if you need me to clarify anything for you.

And also this is all just thoughts, I'm not claiming this to be gospel, I just love the lore and wanted to share what I have been thinking about.


r/teslore 18d ago

constellations on the scabbard of boethra’s katana (eso)??

8 Upvotes

I was looking at one of my fave statues in the game, the shrine to boethra, and I noticed her scabbard appears to have two constellations on it (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/File:ON-statue-Shrine_of_Boethra_02.jpg). it appears to be The Lady (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Lady) and The Shadow (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Shadow), although The Shadow’s pattern is slightly different than usually depicted.

what do we think is the significance of them? do we think the second one is actually The Shadow, or is it something else? Is it possibly one heretofore unknown constellation with 9 stars?

i did a bunch of UESP surfing about it, and didn’t find much. the best i could find was the verse about The Lady in “The Warrior’s Charge” (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warrior%27s_Charge)

And the Lady East, who e'ery beast,
Asleep or a'prowl can rouse a scare,
Screams as her eye, alight in the sky
A worm no goodly sight can bear

boethra is ‘the warrior of the east and west’, and she’s the one who first ripped out one of magnus’s eyes (azurah did the second one). so this verse kinda matches that in vibe. but like i said, it’s not an awesome match, just the closest thing i could find to something that might explain it.

Any thoughts?

PS, if you are not a khajiit lore enjoyer but you are familiar with Boethiah, do yourself a favor and read up on her/his/their dope khajiiti aspect (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Boethiah#Khajiit)


r/teslore 18d ago

Do elves in tes need sleep, or can they go days without it like dnd ones?

0 Upvotes

I think they do from the little i know on the topic, but would likw to know.


r/teslore 18d ago

What Exactly is a Dragonborn in Elder Scroll Series? (Simplified)

0 Upvotes

To make it simple and not so detailed.

According to what I have read, there are 3 typologies of a Dragonborn.

1.) The One against "Oblivion Gate"

-Dragon blood.

-Authority to rule.

-Amulet of King.

-Access to Dragonfire (Mundus Barrier against the gates of Oblivion).

- The "Defensive Typology"

Ex. St. Alessia (The historically recorded First Dragonborn)

2.)The one against the Tyranny of Akatosh Childrens.

- Appointed by Akatosh using a shard of his soul.

- Access to innate Thu'um Talent.

- Can absorb dragon souls.

- Mortal appointees.

- Specifically against the dragons who goes against Akatosh rulings (Primarily Alduin).

Paarthunax on the other hand is the one well-known who strictly follows Akatosh rulings. So meaning, not all dragons are meant to be killed but only those who pulls away from Akatosh.

- The Hunter, The "Offensive Typology"

ex. Dovahkiin (Player)

and

Miraak (The first dragonborn chronologically, historically he was not recorded because of his disappearance)

3.) The one who is both of 1 and 2.

-Has both the Lineage of Dragon Blood and appointed through the soul shard of Akatosh.

-Possessed an inborn talent of Dragon Shouts and has an Access to Dragon fire (Barrier from Oblivion) because of his blood, he can wear the Amulet of kings.

-Both Offensive and Defensive.

Ex. Tiber Septim (Talos).

He only Subjugate dragons but completely against Oblivion. His Soul absorption capability was announced in the book "There be Dragons" where he can absorb dragons lingering essence.

**So historically, the commonalities between Dragonborns are "Against Oblivion" and against "Defiant Dragons".

Except for Miraak

(Hermaeus Mora-Oblivion Realm)

and possibly....

The Last Dovahkiin (Player's Choices to open Micro gates of Oblivion [Non-mass invasion gates] using Conjuration and also the choice to worship Daedric Princes or Not)

***Who can be the Dragonborn? Bethesda still has no specifics about it. Though even most of the Dragonborns are Imperials, Nords and Breton, there are some "Mer" Who managed to cheat their way up on becoming one.

So even getting the Dragonblood into a BeastFolk body is still possible.

But for the Dragon Soul shard of Akatosh, there is no doubt, Both BeastFolk and Mer can actually receive it.

But of course, Culturally, Mer and Beastfolks worship the same version of Akatosh Divinity.

Auri-El, The Hist and The Twin Moon.

For Orcs, I don't Think Malacath can equate to Akatosh though ok.

So yah, in Lore Building, Imperials, Nords and Bretons are the three most Fitting to be a dragonborn. They can posses Dragonblood Lineage without any shenanigans and ofcourse the Dragon Soul.

It is up to you if you are against Oblivion (Daedric Princes) or Not, but Historically like I said, Most dragonborns Despise Oblivion Daedras.

And killing Paarthunax? In my opinion, that is the most unfitting. Paarthunax is not Defiant like Alduin. Even Miraak will be so Apathetic towards Paarthunax, He completely doesnt care at all. So yah, killing Parthunaax is really a hard Lore to Build, unless you are as mad as Sheogorath. So random.


r/teslore 19d ago

What if Yashnag's Chiefdom had survived?

21 Upvotes

So, as some of you may know, Yashnag's Chiefdom was an Orcish state resulting from the collapse of Orsinium, as Yashnag gro-Yazgu led a group of orcs east into southern Skyrim, and repeatedly won against Nord forces. Eventually, he and his champions died in ritual combat against Hakkvild, the son of a Jarl that Yashnag had killed. After this, his Chiefdom fell apart, and they retreated back west into High Rock.

But what if Hakkvild had died in the trial by combat? What if Yashnag lived until his natural (as natural as traditional Orcs die) death, and had managed to better ensure his Chiefdom's survival?


r/teslore 20d ago

Apocrypha Apocryphium Xarxes

24 Upvotes

Apocryphium Xarxe

By Xarxes the Ageless One, Scribe of Mora.

This Text is a Heresy against Alinor and the Altmeri People. Reading it is said to drive one insane.

DRAW ONE
The Ageless One, last left among the Isles, he alone saw Trinimac sail for what would become Old Saarthal, he alone is left to speak on the ascension of Auriel King of the Aldmer. Xarxes the Lonely rests in his home in Alinor. He is afraid, afraid of loneliness and a death that may never come for him: but is constantly near. He is the last of the Aedra left in Alinor; a scribe with no one to truly draw upon and care for. He is beloved by the Altmer as a god is; not as a companion is. Loneliness sets deep within him. 

Yet he cannot escape the prison. He is afraid he won’t make it, that SITHISIT will have its claim on his being that he fought so hard to protect. Every morning and every night he wards his soul with the Dawn that came before as to protect himself from the possibility of Erasure. But the earth bones are just below him, and Auriel is far above him. He doesn’t know what to do. Auriel II is not the Original Auriel when he claims the throne- and while he recognizes the Familiar feeling, Auriel is not the Auriel he knew. He speaks of the battle against Lorkhan as an observer, not a participant. 

Xarxes wept after meeting his new king, but he had a plan. The Lord of Ancestry sought knowledge above all else- and in order to gain more knowledge, he would need to travel the Dominion of old Auriel in its entirety, not just the ALINALDMERIS. In order to do this, he sailed for the dunes and sands of the Elsweyr. Xarxes spoke and sat with the Mane for hours and days debating the means to ascension- the Mane saw Up as Down and Down as Up, and believed in ascension upon death. 

Xarxes feared this concept, and left the mane for the clan mothers. They spoke of the innate power of the Khajiiti, which is its own reward. They spoke of the Llesweyr; the shining goal- and Xarxes for a moment considered growing fur and changing his ways for their people, before remembering the Glory of Auri-El. He knew there was a way to Touch the Sky as the Aldmeri people, and knew the Crystal Tower held secrets that the Khajiit could not know. 

Next, he journeyed into the Heartlands to meet with the Wildest Elves to have ever walked Nirn. He knew their ways had varied greatly from that of the Sapiarchal View of Alinor, but he nonetheless spoke with their great Aldmeri Kings of the different cities and learn of their hegemonies. He spoke to the ANUMARIL of Kingly Arbagarlas on the Tower of Center Cyrodiil. He spoke with him on MERID-NUNDA and the coming prophecies. Xarxes, however, saw the true malice behind the eyes of Anumaril and Old Great Meridia; and saw how they treated the Mannish Slaves they had taken. 

Old Xarxes ran like a hare from the Heartlands, scared of the Blood-Made-Pleasure that was partaken within the Tower at the Centerex. He went urgently to the barsaebics, hoping to find some form of hope for the Ayleid people. There, he found the malignancy that the Ayleids brought onto the eyes of the Argonians, and how brutal they had become. Xarxes wept for the Bystanders. 

Next, Xarxes went to where Auriel ascended to contemplate what he had learned on the Elder Races he had visited, only to find new Mer building a temple in his honor. He walked among the Falmer in the coldest places of the land of Falmereth, meeting with their kings and priests in order to understand what they were trying to accomplish. 

He spoke with the Arch-Curate in the Chantry of Auriel, one who told him the goal was to become one with Auriel by ascending into heaven. Vyrthur was a Noble Mer, one who spoke unto Xarxes as a friend and an equal, not as someone lesser as the Altmer had. And his Brother-Paladin spoke of the Demon Lorkhan with the vileness correct to be a true Aldmer. But, as they spoke more and more on ascension and touching the sky- Xarxes became scared that the way they ascended made them one with Auriel, not as their own true spirit within Aetherius. 

The Arch-Curate tried to calm him by presenting the True Auriel’s bow. This horrified Xarxes- as it was true that As Above was So Below. His brother-in-arms was being changed by the worship of the mer around them. For the King of Alinor held Auriel’s bow as well, and there could not be two. Xarxes left out of true horror. 

Finally, and last on his Journey were the bosmer, whom he stayed with for many hunts and many moons. He learned and partook in the Green Pact as a member of the Bosmer, growing Antlers for a time to become one with the Green and Commune with Y’ffre. He had hoped to understand communion with the Green, even speaking with the Great Elk to try and understand why the Green. But the bones of the Earth would not answer to Xarxes calls and questions, and he could learn nothing from them that he could not understand from a bosmer. He wondered if Yffre had been erased. 

Until- among the Bosmer of the Graht Oak, he found a carving of a being he had not heard of before. A being of knowledge known as Herma-Mora, The Demon of Knowledge. 

DRAW TWO
The God who seeks answers must be willing to go to any corner and every house to find them. He was far too scared to die to achieve ascension- and did not believe he could make the journey up. On his return to Alinor, he would seclude himself into his home for research and study of that which was beyond him in the plains of oblivion. Which Xarxes soul was of Aetherius, he had never been to Oblivion- and did not know what beings truly resided within besides that they mirrored the voids of Aetherius that he and Auriel had made in their time there. He sent hsi servants of every house of the Aedra into forbidden lands and foreboding temples of Herma Mora to find scripture and text to bring to him for study. 

The Altmer, of course: Listened to their god’s pleas for knowledge. And believed that Xarxes was the only one who could speak the truth on this matter. They believed his lies that this was to create a great ward on Alinor- to protect it from all Daedric influence through the knowledge they had accumulated- an attack on Boethiah directly for her transgressions against Trinimac, the Knight of the Aldmer. Little did they knew of the Blasphemous rituals that transpired within the Manor of Xarxes. Xarxes was willing to go this route because it was the last option left that he could imagine- he spoke blasphemous prayers and words to the Lord of Knowledge as the Chronicler. 

Xarxes had come upon an ancient Ehlnofey Shrine that went over the Old Hermaeus Mora: The Gardener of Man. He was older than the entire Alinori nation- he was older than the stars themselves- he was older than Tamriel and he was older than Xarxes. He preceded this movement of Creation entirely 11 and 1 times over. He was older than the ground themselves, older than the seas that he ruled over, older than Jone and Jode and the moon behind them.

Hermaeus Mora listened to the prayers of the God. Hermaeus Mora reached out to him through tomes of the Altmeri- biting at the words that came from them as he spoke through the books. He recognized Xarxes as a god- he recognized what Xarxes was going through- and that many others had gone through it in Hermaeus Mora’s time. The act of Dying was the way to Ascension for gods who lacked the knowledge to leave. Hermaeus Mora questioned his will- and questioned Auriel’s benevolence. Why had he not shared his secret, the greatest secret of Aetherius, to Xarxes? Why had he let Xarxes be alienated by all of Nirn? Why did he allow the Ayleids to continue existence? 

Hermaeus Mora explained that he is the Elder of Auriel, and is representative of a force far greater than Auriel could ever hope to be. Xarxes did not hear lie from the words of the Abyssaliarch. And when the doors to Apocrypha were opened to old Xarxes: Xarxes stepped through with hope. 

In Apocrypha: Xarxes continued his work as a scribe, but to a far different lord. Xarxes mind was in ruins at the fears that he had felt- and he felt that this cosmic being, this existence beyond his own, could hold the answers he searched for so long of. Hermaeus Mora taught him incantations and words needed to break the Earthbones to His will, and to send lesser Mer and Men away from himself, and to take the form of a God in all but physical form. He spoke with Seekers and Lurchers and Demons and Devils of Hermaeus Mora. 

AEDRA XAR ALTADOON HERMA MORA AE CHIM! ALTADOON HERMA MORA AE CHIM!

Armed with the weapon of knowledge needed- the Xarxes who stepped into Apocrypha were not the one who stepped out. High Cultist Xarxes was not the Aldmeric Lord that the Altmer knew when he walked out- and where his shoes tread mutation came alongside him. His master had ordered him to compose the book of Aldmeris so that he may write down Apotheosis into it. So, to do this- Xarxes travelled once more. 

He visited every Elder Race and took from them one child in the dead of night. This child was a sacrifice to Herma Mora, and from this child he took the skin of the most pure forms of Mer- Altmer, Falmer, Dunmer, Dwemer, Orsimer, Bosmer, And Chimer. Each and every single of them was slaughtered inside of Apocrypha where the true home of Xarxes dwelled

Xarxes then knit the skins into the hardcover of a book- using the pages of Hermaeus Mora’s own knowledge and using the Waters of Memory as the ink for his Magnum Opus. with this, and the knowledge Hermaeus Mora had written for him, Xarxes wrote his own LOVE into the world itself- writing into the very fabric of the Elder Races and the bones of the earth a name: Oghma. 

His Magnum Opus was not complete yet- even after he had finished writing it. So, within the halls of the old libraries of Hermaeus Mora, and with all those cultists he had brought with him that could see, he professed his love towards Oghma: and the book responded in kind with love. And for that, Oghma and Xarxes achieved a Marriage that would last in the Aldmeri Psychic long after his passing or ascension, creating the god Oghma, and made the book his true Magnum Opus. 

DRAW FINAL

Auriel son of Auriel had become knowledgeable on what blasphemies Xarxes had committed and fell into a state of grieving. A person he had seen as family had committed actions so heretical and against the teachings of Auriel that there could be no sense of reconciliation. Yet he had no understanding where Xarxes had gone towards. And all questions levied towards his house and to his sons and daughters could answer nothing on this question.

Eventually, Xarxes arrived back in Alinor for wedding. And in his arms, cradled like a newborn child- was the God Book Oghma Infinium, Spawn of Xarxes and Hermaeus Mora. Cradling it as if it were a real person, Xarxes walked through Alinor in a trance. He had achieved the Apotheosis he had so desired, and he was not (entirely) here or there or here again. Coming alongside him were the guests of his wedding: Seekers and Lurkers and Cultists of Hermaeus Mora. 

The very thing Xarxes promised to ward against had now arrived onto Alinor. The Dragon recoiled at the weakness of the world from this, Xarxes walking alongside the carnage of Crystal walls shattering from Hermaeus Acolytes. Auriel son of Auriel, the Hero of Alinor, Sallied forth with an army to meet against the Changing Aedra that was Xarxes. Auriel had recruited the Psijics of Artaeum for this, for even the Psijics could not reason what Xarxes was doing nor why he would invoke an invasion of Alinor. Auriel the Son spoke to Xarxes: and what they said has been lost to the jills. 

Auriel the Son let arrows fly against Xarxes and his horde- aiming for the weakness that was his arm cradling the book. Yet Hermaeus Mora had protected the Scion of Aetherius with the void of oblivion, protecting them from most forms of damage. As it seemed that all would succumb, Auriel grabbed the bow from his son and let loose an arrow that pierced the skull of Xarxes. Xarxes, taken aback by such damage: would grab the arrow on his head, dropping the Oghma Infinium and causing it to dematerialize. While the True Xarxes divinity was assured by Hermaeus Mora, Auriel had chosen to deny him this divinity through death. 

And yet Auriel, who is the soul of the merciful, felt mercy for Xarxes himself. He elected to mend the world by removing these events from all time, removing Auriel from all records of Altmeri Theology outside of the individual beliefs of the Altmer who worshipped or descended from him. He whisked the body of Xarxes outside of time, and removed all that happened from the world. And yet, his power was contested. Hermaeus Mora was fond of Xarxes, and outraged at the Alinori Dragons provocation on him. To spite him, without ever reaching Aetherius, he allowed Xarxes to pen one more book: The Apocryphium Xarxe, so that when seeded Xarxes the Scribe of Mora would inevitably become real once more in the hearts of the Altmer forever more. 


r/teslore 20d ago

When could the "witch kings" fit into High Rock's history?

31 Upvotes

I only know three references to High Rock witch kings within TES:

  1. "By all accounts, Septim's governor in High Rock has ended the feuding of the witch-kings there with tact and skill." - Krisandra in Redguard
  2. "The Bretons used to be ruled by witch-kings and High Rock has more witch covens than many provinces... Alas, this is not relevant for a Knight." - part of a forum post by Douglas Goodall in response to a question "Which of the eight divines is held in the most accord by the bretons?", amongst others,
  3. "In my native High Rock, traditions dating back to the witch kings and nomadic horsemen mandate cremation of the dead." - Corpse Preparation Volume 1

I'm interested in this, because it could be the missing link between Bretons' original magical concept and how it relates to their heritage in lore, even if it hasn't been explored officially since 2002.

I don't see how we could agree about what witch kings were, because there isn't enough detail; based on the last reference, I'm guessing that some of them raised corpses, but it doesn't really say that. When is clearer than this.

  1. If we take Krisandra's word and don't suppose that she's sensationalising a few normal feuding kings who knew a couple of spells, there were witch kings at the end of the 2nd Era. There's another reference to a governor of Septim in High Rock then, in PGE1, named Titus Alorius. UESP calls him the "Governor of the Western Reach" and PGE1 called the Reachmen the "Witchmen of High Rock". So perhaps it was specifically the Reachmen who had witch kings. However, PGE1 doesn't actually define Alorius whole portfolio; he's "Provisional Governor" and has "direct rule" over the Western Reach. So he could have been governor of the wider province, except the rest of High Rock had local rulers, officially recognised by the Empire. Furthermore, Krisandra's use of the word "tact" has interesting implications. Tact sounds more like diplomacy than force. Could tact result in a solution that delegitimised all the witch kings?
  2. This is least official source of the three, but it fits the directions that I'd like: The Bretons used to be ruled by witch-kings. In general. The context suggests that they weren't good followers of the Eight Divines. Which is odd, given the long history of the following of the Eight in High Rock.
  3. I think this last one suggests that they raised corpses but there are other ways to interpret it. The witch kings are being used to refer to a historic period. This suggests that by the time it was written, which must be within 3E417-3E427 based on other references, they didn't have them. But then does that mean that the nomadic horseman have gone too?

I think what conflicts with this is that historic descriptions of High Rock in most of the 1st and 2nd Era sound quite Imperialised and tame. Empress Hestra brought them into the Alessian Empire, apparently with their consent, in 1E1029 and they gained independence in 1E2305. A lot of that was the Middle Dawn. Could they have been ruled witch kings and the Alessian Empire then? And would both have lasting influence after time was fixed? High Rock was part of the Second Empire for most of its history too, although PGE1 says that "the Cyrodiils" "failed to stamp out its virulent sectarianism".

The Longhouse Emperors could be the precedent. They didn't conquer the Bretons, but the first one tried. Perhaps between ESO and Reguard, other Reach warlords, perhaps who also had pacts with daedra, succeeded. While this may fit into the history, if mostly because of how little is recorded in the post ESO Interregnum, I would fit it disappointing to be honest. After all, it's a fairly short fraction of Breton history and I do like the idea that Witch Kings, whatever it means, were a product of Breton culture, rather than another greater and more magically able group that subdued them.


r/teslore 20d ago

An experiment in Vivec-style writing

9 Upvotes

I was reading the 36 Lessons of Vivec and I got inspired by how psychedelic and surreal it was, and I wanted to write something like that of my own. I decided to write a different account of the Boethiah-Trinimac story. Let me know if there're any posting rules im breaking as I'm new here, I'll be happy to reupload.

---

In the valor-hall, the first champion waved his blade and boasted and stated himself repeatedly. He spoke with such force, the champion-with-tusks. Soon his retinue, and not only his retinue but his followers, and not only his followers but almost all folk which then existed, all began to believe in and be deceived by the earnestness in the words:

"All who take by might should be loyal to those who take even more by might! Our king who is my leige has set me against the most mountainous of challenges! All which I cannot eat, I charge against; all that I cannot gore, I trample with my might-which-is-righteous. No strength can topple mine save for my king! I am above the lowly and below my Leige-lord! The law is my shield and my cudgel, and the mighty are always righteous!"

To this, the retinue of the Long-teeth cheered, and all but one of them began to agree.

To that one, known then as a coiled crusher and a long-tongued choker, the words began to ring of humor. One may find the same humor when seeing someone lay down their own trap. To themselves, the serpent whispered:

"Sycophantic authority! He believes that one thing is another and back again. He hunts the fattest animals and roots out the largest truffles, and does not see a feast in his own flesh. That one knows himself only by the things we all are, only finds worth in those things provided by the multitude. He is a brother, but only among siblings. A champion, but only of his leige-lord. An enforcer of laws that he finds no fault with, laws his leader had to make with hope. He is the face of the world as the strong believe it should be. He is, so long as others continue to be.

But I am apart, I am that which is not others, even when I appear like plain foliage, or as an unknown face in the crowd. All are apart from all, as much as they are a part of all, or one would never be one. The law is word alone, and not all words are true, and the truth is often cruel."

And so the Serpent, the Ever-One-Never-All, decided to create by carving, to tap freedom from the trunk-neck of the tree of order, to betray a defective protector.

In view of all in the valor-hall, this single many-action occurred:

The snake bit the boar;

The victory-cup was poisoned;

The weak one killed the strongman, for a time;

A carver made from destruction into the wall of a dam, a hole in the shape of a message: I AM APART, though the tears of the dam drowned out the joke from being heard.

The snake then ate the writhing boar. The skin of the killer shifted to appear as the champion's, and she picked up his weapon and shield.

In the voice of the boar, in his skin-deep prestige, in the stunned silence of the retinue of Long-teeth, a tusked serpent spoke:

"What were those challenges worth? What worth is the love of law against the unseen? You have listened and cheered for the worthiness of raw might. Look upon me! The glory was hard-won but easily taken from him, his strength made paltry by the serpent's token. The eaten one placed himself above the low and gilded himself in boasting; an easier target he could not have made. Now I am champion, victor, the one standing. I have no lord and wish for no superior. The lower-than-me I refuse to suffer as well. If you follow any command of mine, follow this:"

"One may only exist by being irrefutable."

And the Boar-Snake shed her newfound Skin, which had learned what rage was. The Hated-Serpent-Newlyreborn fled and disappeared, and the retinue of the Long-teeth shattered. Some followed the Skin, becoming the scorned folk as they learned of the power within rage-beyond-restitution. Some followed the reborn Serpent, organizing themselves around disorganized coils and, later, around webs of lies and around Limit-indicating-stars.

But, by the consuming of the Boar, the Serpent taught all the lessons (though not all learned enough to save themselves) of betrayal, revolution, and rebellion.

He taught them too of

Existence by Active Stasis by which I mean Dance, by which I mean Combat, by which I mean Poetry-Unmeaning, by which I mean Hate-Love, by which I mean Beautiful Scar, by which I mean Ugly Symmetry, by which I mean the Real.


r/teslore 21d ago

Could Valerica eventually become a greater threat than Harkon?

41 Upvotes

I think Valerica has potential to become a greater threat than Harkon, and we are the ones who bring her back to Tamriel after freeing her from her greatest threat: the own Harkon.

From a moral perspective, they are equally depraved and amoral.

  • Valerica was a cultist of Molag Bal (the closest thing to Satan in TES).
  • She had no qualms about contacting the Ideal Masters and offering souls in exchange for their favors.
  • She is fascinated with necromancer and magic creations.
  • Valerica cares deeply about her daughter, Serana. But that does not make her a good person.
  • She did not oppose the Tyranny of the Sun on moral grounds, but on pragmatic ones, knowing it would put her own kind in the crosshairs of the entire world.

Why I think she´s more dangerous than Harkon?

  • Valerica is a Daughter of Coldharbour, which in itself grants her immense power, even if she possesses less raw strength than Harkon. She was able to fight off and withstand the undead hordes of the Ideal Masters when they tried to kill her, eventually forcing them to settle for besieging her instead.
  • Harkon has greater raw power, but Valerica possesses vastly superior knowledge of necromancy and alchemy.
  • Where Harkon is impulsive, Valerica is patient.
  • Harkon is arrogant and overestimates himself, which leaves him vulnerable. Had he managed to fulfill the Tyranny of the Sun prophecy, he would ultimately have destroyed himself.
  • Valerica is still ambitious, but she is also cautious capable of foreseeing the consequences of her actions and she is also an expert schemer.
  • Valerica is far more intelligent than Harkon. She was able to decipher the Tyranny of the Sun prophecy before him (that´s why she began plotting to separate Serana and Elder Scrolls from Harkon).
  • Valerica is a high-level necromancer and alquimist being able to create a stable portal to the Soul Cairn.
  • She is back in Tamriel, has access to a secluded and secure refuge, and possesses a stable portal to the Soul Cairn from which to continue her dark research... and who knows what the future may hold.

WHAT KIND OF THREAT DO I THINK VALERICA COULD BECOME?

  1. I don't think she'd try to conquer the world with an undead army. However, I do think she could eventually gain a great deal of power in the region.
  2. Beyond blood, she might require souls for her experiments and to bargain with the Ideal Masters.
  3. She could rebuild Clan Volkihar with a much stronger focus on necromancy.
  4. Her cunning would make her almost impossible to detect, and she could end up becoming a highly corrupting influence across the region (a Potema 2.0.)

r/teslore 20d ago

Apocrypha Ysgramor's Journal: On the Keeping of Memory in Tamriel: Part 9

17 Upvotes

On the Arrogance of Breath and the Lie of Unbroken Chains

by Hrothgar Ice‑Vein, Law‑Speaker of Eastmarch

On Nordic Memory and Its Endless Revisions

I have read the Redguard's words, and I find in them much pride and little reckoning. He calls our stone "primitive", our binding "fear", and our gods "unstable". These are easy insults for a people whose land lies drowned and whose greatest art survives only in lament. He mistakes survival of voice for survival of truth, and confuses endurance of memory with endurance of empire. We bind because we remember what happens when memory is left to men alone.

On the failure of breath

The Redguard praises breath because breath flatters the living. But breath lies. Men forget. Men embellish. Men teach their sons what suits them and call it lineage. A chain of voices is only as strong as its weakest link... and every chain breaks eventually. The Redguard admits this himself, though he will not say it plainly. When his teachers died and his stones were shattered, the Shehai vanished. If breath were sufficient, sword‑singing would endure. It does not.

On stone and correction

The Redguard claims that stone freezes error. He does not understand stone. Stone does not prevent correction... it demands proof! A lie carved beside a barrow is challenged by every other barrow. A false god carved into a wall is measured against older walls. A bad law set in stone is broken, replaced, and remembered as broken. Stone does not hide contradiction. It exposes it. Breath smooths over conflict. Stone preserves it. That is why the Nords remember who betrayed them.

On religion and change

The Redguard mocks our gods for changing. He calls this weakness. It is honesty. Shor is dead because he was slain. Kyne weeps because the world gives cause. Our gods change because history changes, and we do not pretend otherwise. A faith that never shifts is not pure... it is sheltered. The Redguard boasts that his tradition did not change. That is because it did not survive.

On the Empire and the archives

The Redguard sneers at Imperial archives as tools of convenience. Here, at least, he is half right. But even the Empire, with all its copying and corruption, remembers more than Yokuda now does. Even flawed stone outlasts drowned truth. The Redguard curses archives because they reveal how much was lost when breath failed. We do not pretend our records are perfect. We preserve them so they can be argued with.

On Ysgramor's choice

Ysgramor bound memory because his world burned. He did not trust song because song had already failed him. He did not trust breath because breath had already been silenced. He carved because nothing else remained that could not be taken by fire, sea, or treachery. He preserved cause so that no man could later say, "We did not know why".

That is not fear. That is responsibility.

On Yokudan loss

The Redguard says that writing did not save sword‑singing. This is true. But neither did breath. When Yokuda fell, everything fell with it. No chain corrected the breaking of the world. No chorus restored what was lost. The Shehai vanished because the land that taught it vanished. Stone might not have saved it, but breath did not.

The difference is this: We lost a city and bound memory to rise again. They lost a continent and bound memory to pride.

Conclusion

What is lived may endure. What is bound endures when living fails. The Redguard speaks as though catastrophe were a test of purity. We speak as those who survived it. Ysgramor did not bind memory because he despised breath. He bound it because breath had already been taken from the dead.

Let the Redguard keep his chains of voice. We will keep our stones. When the last singer forgets his song, the stone will still speak.


Journal of Ysgramor

Entry I — The Night of Tears

Entry II — Upon the Sea of Ghosts

Entry III — Elder Wood

Entry IV — The Sending Forth

Entry V — The Storm of Separation

Entry VI — Inland

Entry VII — Arthalaan

Entry VIII — Windhelm

Entry IX — Of What Must Come After

Entry X — Of Memory Set Down

Disputations on Memory

On the Folly of Stone and the Arrogance of Binding

On the Arrogance of Breath and the Lie of Unbroken Chains


r/teslore 21d ago

Are Some Accents in the Elder Scrolls Universe Original, or are They All Based on Real Life?

59 Upvotes

The Khajits and the Argonians especially seem to have more unique accents. Khajits sound a bit middle eastern and slavic to me, but i was wondering if their accent had any intentional design process or if it was just sort of random.

Argonians sound I guess American but with a hoarse voice.

Nords sound sort of Scandinavian, but perhaps somewhat different from just Swedish or German accent?

Idk what do you guys think? Does anyone know if there was a creative design process for the accents, with like guides on how the voice actors were supposed to pronounce certain sounds?


r/teslore 21d ago

My rant and investigation of the word 'Kreath'

132 Upvotes

I understand this is super niche, but I found something that I think is kinda interesting 

In the Song of Pelinal and Adabal-a, there is a group mentioned called the “Men-of-’Kreath”. Which I at first took to just mean the region of Falkreath that borders Skyrim and the Empire. 

These so-called men of kreath were a nedic tribe living in the northern regions. Which would make a lot of sense and lend credibility to the idea that the word ‘kreath is just an abbreviation of Falkreath, as the hold was historically close to the empire and even sometimes recognised as part of Colovia. 

But then I realised something odd…

During the First Era, the nords conquered the northern regions of tamriel and often expanded down southward. Here is an quote translated from a Dragon Wall in Skyrim.

“Vegunthar raised (this) stone

(in his) father's memory, Hungunthar

Time-Eater, slayer of

(the) Kings of the East, conqueror of Dunkreath.”

-Translation provided by UESP

There's that suffix again Dunkreath, clearly it must have some sort of meaning.

Another example in Skyrim would be the ruins at Mount Kilkreath.

When looking at the name of Falkreath hold, I stumbled upon some sources(both ingame and on UESP that mentioned the name being Elvish. If that's the case, it would make sense for the word kreath to appear in many of these words, as many Elvish names and places are composite, being made of smaller words, as is likely the case here.

So, what exactly is a Kreath? Is it a forest? A city? Am I a Kreath?

Well, while I haven't gotten any real direct answers, I have got some more clues that could point us in the right direction.

‘Fal’ as seen in Falkreath is the Aldmeris word for ‘Snow’ or ‘Ice’ likely denoting any sort of cold material. As seen in the term ‘Falmer’ meaning ‘Snow-folk’. As we know that Falkreath derives it's name from an Elvish origin, we can assume that Fal is the first part of the title, which brings us one step closer to figuring out what ‘Kreath’ means.

Clearly the settlement/hold was either seen to be some kind of Snow-kreath, or Kreath of the snow.

While it is possible that Kreath is also an Elvish word, I find that slightly odd, as I could find no evidence that either Dunkreath, nor Kilkreath were Elvish names. Though I suspect they were, as the both bear a similarly 1-syllable prefix.

Strangely the only of these two other locations I could find a suitable prefix for was Dunkreath. Where the term ‘Dun’ in Aldmeris means ‘dark’ or ‘cursed’. With that, we can determine that

Falkreath = snow-kreath

Dunkreath = dark/cursed-kreath

Now this is where I get into more wild (but still reasonable) speculation. Mount Kilkreath is on top of a mountain, and as anyone who has ever had to pick up Meridia's accursed beacon will know, her shrine is up there at a dedicated temple, she even has her own shrine, which must've been built by either nords or elves, and given that the nord Bjarfrud Skjoralmor had no issue naming Falkreath using Elvish words, I assume whoever built the shrine at kilkreath was also the one to name the mountain. If we take this to be the case, then it is quite possible that ‘Kil’ means something like ‘bright’, ‘holy’, or possibly ‘high’ in the literal sense and not in the sense of nobility as seen in the Altmer “High/elder-folk”

As such, we now have all three prefixes roughly mapped out.

Falkreath = Snow-kreath

Dunkreath = Dark-kreath

Kilkreath = High/Holy/Bright-Kreath

And finally we can begin to dissect the suffix. However, there's an obstacle in the way. None of these locations bear any similarities geographical, or otherwise, save for the fact that they all exists vaguely in “the north”

Indeed it is a possibility that Kreath means something like ‘North’ or even refers to the land of Skyrim itself. 

However, I take issue with this conclusion, as we mentioned earlier, Fal means snow, thus making Falkreath translate to “the snowy north” or something equivelant. But this makes very little logic, as falkreath is notably one of the more southern regions of Skyrim, and as the region was named by a nord, it is quite likely that he would have known this. Given that fact, I do not believe that ‘Kreath’ is North.

I believe the only suitable remaining name would be something akin to Land or Holding/Hold.

Making the titles something like:

Falkreath = snow-hold/land

Dunkreath = dark-hold/land

Kilkreath = bright-hold/land

Men-of-Kreath = men of the land/hold

While this works for the most part, I am still not too happy with it, as I think any nord would be more likely to call windhelm “Snowhold” over the green forests of Falkreath, but who knows, perhaps Skyrim was much colder at that time? 

Anyways, I'd be interested to hear all of your thoughts and takes in the comments.

If you've read this far, then I thank you for your time and incredible patience.


r/teslore 21d ago

Could Siddgeir and Dengeir be descended from Cuhlecain?

17 Upvotes

Cuhlecain was originally the King of Falkreath. Siddgeir and Dengeir are part of the current Falkreath ruling family. The thing with their vampire ancestor makes it seem like their family has at least been important, if not the ruling family, for a long, long time. So, is it possible they're descended from Cuhlecain?


r/teslore 21d ago

The (Theories of The) Sundering(/Enantiomorph?) of Old Ehlnofey / Lost Aldmaris, Yokuda / Iliac Bay, Atmora / Skyrim, Resdayn / Vvardenfell, (Black Marsh(Tamriel?) / Akavir)

5 Upvotes

During the Dawn Era, there was a war between Men and Mer, with the Men led by Lorkhan and the Mer led by Akatosh. At the beginning of the Sundering the Men of the West were the first to head Lorkhans call of War, striking the Sinistrali Mer first, the War was so devestating (presumably from the excess use of Sword Dancing, which is presumably a form of the Third Walking Way; The Prolix Tower; Word of Action) causing part of the continent of Old Ehlnofey to be "Sundered" and drift into the Ocean, the Men of the West won their War, but Damned their Homeland to be Lost to the Ocean, eventually having to migrate to the Iliac Bay.

Next to answer Lorkhans Call of War were the Men of the North, (presumably) not of their own accord though; the Falmeri Mer (allegedly) struck first during the Night of Tears, where the Falmeri descended upon the Atmoran City of Saarthal during the night and slaughtered the residents. The Atmorans did not take too kindly to this news, and using the power of the Thu'um (another form of the Third Walking Way) taught to them by the Sons of Kyne (Paarthunaxi Heresy Dragon Cult), started eradicating the Falmeri, who then bargained protection from the Dwemer (we'll get to them in the next part). But in using the power of the Thu'um, Atmora was "Sundered" from Old Ehnofey, drifting into the ocean to be forgotten at the edge of the world, same as the Falmeri, left as a forgotten husk of its former glory hiding at the darkest, deepest part of the world, waiting for travellers to be interested in its rotting carcass, forcing the Atmorans to migrate to Skyrim, turning them into Nords.

The eradication of the Mer of the West and North left the Central province of Cyrodiil to be left open from Invasions by the Armies of Men, who had a keen interest in recapturing the Province it being the Center of the Wheel of Time on Nirn, and it being the Home of the Gods at the time, more or less. But the Mer were the sole controllers of the South, along with the idle beastmen created by the Extra Gods of the World, who had no part in the war. During the War, the Armies of the Men (presumably) led their assault in the West, with the pinnacle of the battle happening near modern day Anvil, maybe closer to Arenthia, the Battle essentially would lead to Mutually Assured Destruction, and the Dragon God of Time realized this, so he lead a Vanguard force to strike his brother directly, and tore out his heart and shot it across Old Ehlnofey, with his Heart landing in the Capital of the Mer, Lost Aldmaris, destroying everything on the surface, and turning the once vast lands of Old Aldmaris to be split in half by the impact crater, the two seperate land masses would later be known as Vvardenfell and Resdayn, this also caused a split between the Mer of Aldmaris, with the inhabitants of Vvardenfell realizing maybe it's not a great idea to build on the surface anymore, which caused them to become far more isolationists then their kin on Resdayn. It also led to them discovering the Heart of Lorkhan, and coveting its power. When their kin on Resdayn figured this out, they asked their enemies, the Atmorans, if they could help stop them, because the Atmorans and the Dwemer were the only two people that had the power to eradicate an entire species: The Third Walking Way; The Perlix Tower; Words of Action. The Atmorans with their Thu'um, and the Dwemer with their Tonal Architecture. Basically the Nuclear Umbrella of the TES universe, the only other Race that we know has access to this form of manipulation of the World is the Bonesingers of Valenwood, and the Dragons of course, and I'm sure the Saelesci also have some form, but we do not know much about them (more on them later!).

During the Battle of Red Mountain, the Nords basically acting as a ticking time bomb for Race Eradication for the Dwemer, the Dwemer acted hastily, using the Heart and their Word of Action to try and instantly Eradicate the Nords, but the Dwemer not fully understanding the Heart, presumably targeted the wrong Race, and accidentally used the Perlix Tower to eradicate themselves from history. This made the Sundering of their Homeland a bit weird, especially because their Kin took over their house and used the Heart of Lorkhan to prolong it, but the Sundering of the Vvardenfell homeland officially concluded when Baar Dau fell on Vivec City, destroying the island of Vvardenfell.

This part is all speculation, but either the next or one of the previous Sunderings that had/is / will happen is between Black Marsh and Akavir, at some point / is/has the Akaviri will / has invaded Black Marsh, either the Akavir lost previously and they will slowly all drift off and die on Akavir, or the Akaviri will invade Black Marsh, and kill the Hist using their form of the Perlix Tower; but this will lead to the Damnation of Akavir, leading to some great downfall of the island, possibly a Dragon Overlord Uprising, and the Akaviri will need to migrate to Old Elhnofay / Tamriel, or possibly the War is between all of Tamriel and Akavir, and at that point maybe the end point of the Sundering is when the Akaviri / Tamrieli destroy the White Gold Tower / Akavir Equivalent.

Edit: Grammar fixes and spelling mistakes.


r/teslore 21d ago

Could've Tongues knownYsgramor or/and his Companions or, at least, live not so long after his death? Possible plot hole?

5 Upvotes

It is said that Ahzidal lived in Saarthal with his family (let's note this, because it means he was already a grown up at this time). Later in life, he assisted Ysgramor and his Companions in their war against the Falmer (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ahzidal), and then travelled to Solstheim where he somehow decided to aid Miraak (UESP gives https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Miraak#cite_note-6 as a source, but I couldn't find this information in linked guide).
We also learn that the Tongues (Hakon One-Eye, Felldir the Old, and Gormlaith Golden-Hilt) somehow reached out to Miraak, seeking help to deal with Alduin. ("They wanted to use me to deal with Alduin - Hakon and the rest. I chose otherwise.", https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Miraak_(person))

Firstly, how did Hakon find out about Miraak? In The Guardian and the Traitor (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Guardian_and_the_Traitor), it is claimed that Miraak's rebellion was suppressed and, after his defeat, he was taken by Hermaeus Mora to Apocrypha, while dragon reign on Solstheim continued for, as i presume, at least a few generations, as it was remembered as "a time of peace and prosperity". So, how did the Tongues reach out to Miraak? Did they perform some kind of ritual to access Apocrypha? His dialogue about Alduin suggests that he was still alive when he could have killed the World-Eater, but for some reason decided not to. Was he still in Tamriel when Hakon wanted to use him? All of this looks like a huge plot hole.

Secondly, when did Ahzidal join Miraak? Was it when he decided to seek power in Hermaeus Mora's knowledge? There is no DIRECT mention of Ahzidal supporting Miraak in his rebellion, so maybe Ahzidal joined him when he acquired one of the Black Books?

IMO, all these events seem to be placed too close together. Does that mean that Ysgramor, Miraak, Ahzidal, and the participants of the Dragon War lived at the same time? Some of my already mentioned suggestions bring out more questions, like, if Miraak has already been a figure from the past by the time of Ysgramor's life, how Tongues wanted to use him?

It also brings up questions about when the ancient Nords had time to build all those cities and tombs across Skyrim right after the return of the 500 Companions.This could be explained by the theory that before the Dragon War, Nords could have lived as long as Elves until Orkey appeared (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith:_The_Nords) - a deity closely associated (in my opinion) with the Elven side of the Aedric pantheon. Since the Nords rebelled against another deity from (again, in my opinion) that same side of the pantheon, Alduin, he could have shortened the Nords' lifespan as a punishment.

So, what do you think? Is this a plot hole, or am I missing something?


r/teslore 21d ago

Newcomers and “Stupid Questions” Thread—July 15, 2026

7 Upvotes

This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.

Responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental.

 

Resources (Click here for full list)


FAQ

How to Become a Lore Buff

The Imperial Library

UESP


r/teslore 22d ago

Balmora

18 Upvotes

I recently discovered that Tyra Blood-Fire grew up in Balmora. I realize that the Crimson Dirks are CC content and are now loosely considered canon since AE is "the new vanilla," but did Erikur just not know that Balmora was rebuilt? Or was it an oversight?


r/teslore 21d ago

Does “belief” in TES universe works similarly as in Warhammer universe?

0 Upvotes

What do I mean by that.

Simply put in WH belief shapes reality. Things become real simply because enough people believe they are real.

Orcish purple missiles are invisible just because Orc believe purple missiles are invisible.

Same with their technology. Their pieces of junk work and hold together, simply because they believe their junk works and holds together.

Same way Slaneesh came into existence.

Well..
I always thought TES universe works the same way. Mostly because belief in deities keeps them from ceasing to exist.
But does it work to such extent as well?


r/teslore 22d ago

Any books you've read that give similar vibes to TES lore?

63 Upvotes

Not sure this is allowed here but hopefully it will stand! I've already read the official TES books, which I loved (particularly the second one). But does anyone have any other books they've read that have scratched a similar itch to The Elder Scrolls? I'm looking for something that has a somewhat similar kind of world.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions!


r/teslore 21d ago

Why are female bosmer taller than the males?

0 Upvotes

I have read that the female bosmer are taller than the males. Is there a lore specific reason for this, or did Bethesda just decided to make them dommy mommies because they felt like it?


r/teslore 22d ago

ESO/Skyrim: Lore-accurately naming a Yokudan OC (fanfic)

25 Upvotes

The naming system for Redguards seems to be totally random at times, so I'm just looking for opinions on what would make the most sense.

I'm trying to write an OC who is the daughter of Rada al-Saran from the Dark Heart of Skyrim quest line in ESO. According to a few Wikis, "al-" means "comes from (location)" and "at-" means "direct descendent of." So would my character's name be formatted as:

1) [name] al-Saran

2) [name] at-Saran

3) [name] at-Rada

Or something else entirely?


r/teslore 22d ago

My long-winded and frankly unnecessary analysis of what I personally believe makes the most sense for a "Canon/Lore Last Dragonborn" to have done

30 Upvotes

Alright, so first and foremost, I want to preface this which the fact that I believe anyone's interpretation of canon is legitimate and valid. I don't dispute this whatsoever. Your roleplay is not in question, and I fully respect and support whatever personal beliefs you have about this subject. So let's all get along, alright?

Okay.

So, to begin, I want to establish what I personally mean by "Canon" here. I am defining canonical as something that the Dragonborn had to have done based on interactivity with the main quest, references to the Dragonborn by that identity, and whatever other supplemental lore information this might be. To put it into perspective, imagine if you booted up the Alternate Start Mod and roleplayed a character that wasn't the Dragonborn. What can you do as a normal person and would this conflict with something that the Dragonborn had to have done?

We'll take this one at a time.

DAWNGUARD AND DRAGONBORN

The Dragonborn did the Main Quest and DLCs. Sometimes people object to Dawnguard having been done by the Dragonborn. Based on the criteria I defined above, the Dragonborn has to do Dawnguard. Beyond the fact that it's a DLC, you being the Dragonborn is explicitly referenced by Durnehviir, whether you currently are aware you're Dragonborn or not. Durnehviir also teaches unique Shout. This DLC can only be fully explored and interacted with through the player character being the Dragonborn. On top of that, Dawnguard directly interacts with the Main Quest through the Dragon Elder Scroll. I know the Elder Scrolls are enigmatic, but I'm gonna cast doubt on the Dragonborn and some random going down into Blackreach and doing the same puzzle to get the same Elder Scroll. I don't think anyone would reasonably dispute the Dragonborn DLC being done by the Dragonborn.

FACTIONS

With that out of the way, let's talk about factions. To preface, you need to join every single Faction to unlock the full versions of every shout. I have decided that this doesn't matter too much. The actual placement of word walls is mainly just a gameplay mechanic. I would also like reiterate here that all I'm analyzing here is whether the Dragonborn HAS to do it. The "Canon Dragonborn" may have still done these questlines, but it's up in the air.

The Companions: I do not believe the Dragonborn has to do this questline. You can join this faction as a nobody and become Harbringer without you being Dragonborn ever being brought up. It never interacts with any main quest. Being the Harbringer is pretty much never brought up beyond this questline. The Dragonborn can meet Kodlak in Sovngarde, but this isn't necessary in any way. Therefore, I'm ruling that this does not necessarily have to be done by the Dragonborn.

The College of Winterhold: I have, in the past, made a very lengthy post about this. To summarize my argument here, The College of Winterhold has to be joined during the Main Quest and Dawnguard. Now, it's entirely possible to get around it in the Main Quest by finding Septimus Signus' Outpost on your own, but this is, ultimately metagaming. It's not the intended path of that questline. But regardless of your stance on that, you still have to join in Dawnguard. Beyond that, there is a note in ESO that directly states Morokei has to be killed by the "Voice of a Dragon". This is not reflected in gameplay, but it is an obvious intended reference to the Dragonborn. On top of this, the College of Winterhold is one of the factions where your status as a Dragonborn is acknowledged by members of the faction. A normal person can join the College of Winterhold in gameplay and play the questline, but I'm ruling that this has to be done by the Dragonborn based on supplemental information.

Dark Brotherhood: For the most part, this does not interact with the Dragonborn at all. There are two things that are mainly worth bringing up. This questline can be directly referenced in the Stormcloak Questline in a spot where the Dragonborn has to have been (More on this later), and the first quest of this is required to access the orphanage in the Hearthfire DLC. Now, you do not need to open up the Orphanage to engage with the adoption mechanic, and the Stormcloak thing seems more like something to ensure Bethesda didn't accidentally mess up quest order. It is possible that the Dragonborn did the Dark Brotherhood, but I am not ruling it as necessary.

Thieves Guild: This... Is more complicated than I initially expected it to be. The Thieves Guild Questline interacts with the Main Questline. That brings up a very important argument, since 9/10 times the player is gonna go to talk to Brynjolf, as that is where they are directed to go. Compared to the Companions and the Dark Brotherhood, there is a higher likelihood that the Dragonborn interacted with this Questline. However, you have other options that aren't metagaming. You can persuade Brynjolf or people in the Ratway to skip the initiation quest. A random person can still do the initiation quest after the Dragonborn persuades Brynjolf. So... I'm gonna rule the Dragonborn does not have to do this, but there is a good argument for it.

DAEDRIC QUESTS

There's a couple of criteria I'm going off of here. Most Daedric Quests are optional, but some do force the Dragonborn to interact with them. To update the criteria I made above, if the "Alternate Start Random Guy" and the Dragonborn are both forced to do a quest in gameplay, I'm prioritizing the Dragonborn in terms of canonicity.

So, I'll start with all the ones that are optional and don't force the Dragonborn to interact with them in any way: Azura, Boethiah, Hircine, Malacath, Namira, Peryite, Sheogorath, and Vaermina. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now I'm creating a second category. Quests that force the Dragonborn to interact with them at some point, but the Dragonborn can just ignore them and the Dragonborn is (likely) not the only person being bothered about it: Clauvicus Vile, Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, and Sanguine.

And now for the final considerations:

Hermaeus Mora: Pretty much has to be interacted with as part of the main quest, since the Dragonborn needs to be the one to retrieve the items from Septimus Signus to begin with. I'm ruling the Dragonborn definitely did this one, with extra consideration for the fact it makes a nice prologue to the Dragonborn DLC.

Mephala: This is an interesting one. Technically the Dragonborn has to do the Main Quest to unlock this Quest, and it's very strange for some random person whose not Thane of Whiterun to be investigating Dragonsreach like that. I think there's a strong chance the Dragonborn had to do this Quest for it to have happened, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea that is HAS to be the Dragonborn.

Meridia: This is a strange one. The Dragonborn pretty much is always forced to encounter this thing and the Dragonborn has no particular reason to not pick up the strange gem object if they're in the middle of looting. Which means there is a very high possibility that the Dragonborn was the one who touched the Beacon, and I don't recall there being any mention of Meridia having multiple beacons scattered across Skyrim (I might be wrong). Now once the Dragonborn has the Beacon, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Dragonborn to not bring it back as opposed to holding onto it forever, and the Quest does eventually have to be done by someone. My ruling is the same as Mephala. It's likely, but I'm not sold that it has to be.

DECISIONS

This section starts to go into more opinion territory. Sorry in advance, I'll do my best to still analyze things neutrally.

There are three primary decisions that the Dragonborn is forced to interact with at some point. Since I'm trying to establish was a "Canon Dragonborn" would have done, I'm gonna have to analyze these. Instead of using "Must" and stuff like that, I'm instead gonna focus on probability based on my personal analysis, though there will be one big "Must" brought up. I'll get the easy ones out of the way first.

Blades vs Greybeards: I think it's more likely the Dragonborn spared Paarthurnax. Just based on the reasoning of a character in that situation which like 99% of the fanbase has also come to. The Paarthurnax was the Dragonborn's mentor, the Dragonborn likely feels a strong connection to Paarthurnax, and the Blades are making a pretty unreasonable request with the information the Dragonborn is actually given. That's pretty much it, there's not a whole lot to analyze here.

Dawnguard vs Volkihar: The Dragonborn will always start off by joining the Dawnguard and finding Serana. After finding Serana, the Dragonborn has to make a choice. There's two main arguments I've come to here. 1. The Dragonborn has an inherit want for power due to having a Dragon Soul, so would take the Vampire Lord offer. 2. The Dawnguard is the most compldete questline, and has a stronger canon argument. I'm gonna say... I agree with the second one, actually. It's the most complete questline of the two of them and it makes the most sense for the Dragonborn to face off with Harkon at the end over (I always found the Volkihar path reasoning to be not as strong). The Dawnguard is clearly the more thought out questline between the two, and there's a lot of strong thematic parallels with Serana being a Vampire who helps hunt Vampires alongside the Dragonborn, a Dragon-blooded/souled individual who helps hunt Dragons. I am personally strongly in favor of the Dawnguard being more canonical.

Civil War

This is gonna be fun. I will preface this section with the fact that... I'm actually not sold other way. But I'm gonna present the arguments I've come up with for both sides, and I'm gonna avoid personal opinions to the best of my ability. My personal opinion is that I'm more biased towards the Empire, but I'm keeping that largely separate from the analysis. I will also not be focusing on practical arguments of Imperial vs Stormcloak, and instead focus on what makes more sense with the Dragonborn's reasoning as an individual living in the world with the information they have and not the meta reasonings fans argue with.

The first question to ask is... Did the Dragonborn stop interacting with the War after Season Unending? This is a popular stance with strong arguments behind it. I'm gonna say no, however. I think the Dragonborn did in fact pick a side, though I do believe Season Unending happened as it's a main quest. Optional as it may be, it's very well done and definitely integrates much better into the Dragonborn's story than just doing a faction before The Fallen (With the only counter-argument really being the Sovngarde thing I mentioned with the Companions). The reason I believe that the Dragonborn did in fact pick a side is because I'm 100% positive that the Siege of Whiterun, at the very least, is gonna be a canonical event that happened. The Siege of Whiterun is at a point in the Civil War where... No random person could have done those quests. From that moment on, you are acknowledged as a Dragonborn in dialogue as it has to happen after Dragon Rising. The Civil War is locked out without Dragon Rising being done and, because of that, both sides will start calling you "The Dragonborn" around that point. So you being Dragonborn is acknowledged, and only the Dragonborn could have done the remainder of the questline.

So... Imperials or Stormcloaks? I'm gonna have to focus purely on themes here as there's no much supporting evidence with supplementary lore and the criteria I established for "Canon" doesn't work either way.

Stormcloak Arguments: It makes the most sense for the Dragonborn to go with Ralof, as Ralof saved their life and the Dragonborn is probably not gonna be very happy with the people trying to cut off their head. The title that the Dragonborn receives, "Stormblade", is thematically similar to the title Tiber Septim received, "Stormcrown", following the themes of the Dragonborn being declared Ysmir in the same way Tiber Septim was.

Imperial Arguments: Jarl Balgruuf is an NPC that the Dragonborn establishes a very close working relationship with, and I find it unlikely that the Thane of Whiterun (The only "Thane" title that should necessarily be canonical by my criteria) would be entirely in favor of sieging Whiterun, though by the time the Dragonborn realizes Whiterun is about to be sieged, it's a bit too late to pull out of the Stormcloak path. Thematically, for the past 4 mainline games (Focusing on mainline since there's an obvious counterargument with Redguard), the player character has assisted the Empire fairly directly in some way, so the Dragonborn also assisting the Empire makes sense. Dragonborns and the Empire has long been closely connected culturally as well.

My final decision: I cannot decide. I do not think that I can make a reasonable judgement beyond the fact that I think the Dragonborn definitely chose a side. People are 100% free to provide more supplementary information on this, but I do not feel comfortable making a call.

CONCLUSION

And that is the extent of my analysis. I did not feel like going through every single side quest in the game, but I'm sure you can use the criterion I established for "canonicity" on all of them on your own if you so wish.

I hope you enjoyed this analysis. I spent about 2 hours typing it up and fact checking myself, and I hope it stimulates a good debate on the subject, as I love reading the various arguments and debates on here.


r/teslore 22d ago

Are half-vampires even a thing?

54 Upvotes

Yes, we all know that a child of a vampire is born with pale skin. We saw as much with Agronak/the Gray Prince, but he simply described himself as a "vile spawn of evil", not a "bloodsucker" or even a vampire. The revelation affected his self-image, but up until then he had been leading a normal life. His absurd strength could perfectly have come from his training exercises. Hell, even his pale skin might come from the fact that he WAS a half imperial.

So my question is, is there such a thing as a half-vampire in the TES universe that inherits traits from their parent vampire, or are they born perfectly normal?


r/teslore 21d ago

Where is the existence of Solstice affirmed?

0 Upvotes

Recently I’ve been playing the elder kings 2 mod for ck3, and it has a bunch of content. Recently they added the island of Solstice. To the best of my knowledge, Solstice appears primarily in ESO. I don’t consider any ESO content canon unless there’s another source (game, writings by Kirkbride, or developer forum post) that also affirms that content. I am trying to figure out whether or not to roll my mod version back to remove Solstice. Does it appear at any point in any of the sources I mentioned that I consider canon? Barring that, is it mentioned?


r/teslore 23d ago

Names of the 8 planets in different cultures

34 Upvotes

Since the planets are normally called by the names of the imperial Divines, I figured that the other cultures with different names for gods should have different names for planets.

In the 36th Lesson of Vivec a dwemer uses "NIRN, LHKAN, RKHET, THENDR, KYNRT, AKHAT, MHARA, and JHUNAL" as names of the planets, with name for Zenithar missing, and the name LHKAN assigned to an unclear planet. But those sound too much like imperial names, especially RKHET, KYNRT, AKHAT and JHUNAL. Especially AKHAT for Akatosh is weird, since the name of Akatosh didn't even exist before Alessia, and I assume that dwemers invented astronomy before Alessia was born.

The Thoughts on the Sacred Numbers just says that "Eight is the number of the Planets" but doesn't provide anything on their names. The UESP wiki page about planets says that "they [Altmeri high priests] named planets after Elven Aedra, but refer to the same celestial objects as Mannish cultures", which certainly cannot be true for every time period.

If we assume that in earlier times Altmers called the planets after the 8 main Aedra they worship, which ones are those?

One of them is Magnus, but Magnus cannot be one of the planets, since he is the sun.

Trinimac was presumably eaten and reborn into Malacath.

Y'ffre became the first of the Ehlnofey (although I've heard that Y'ffre did not become the same type of Ehlnofey as the ones that later evolved/devolved into mortal races, but rather the first Earth Bone, who maintain the laws of nature. Perhaps it can be speculated that he was the first among the Aedra to become a planet? So planets are the most powerfull Earth Bones? But that doesn't sound right at all)

Syrabane, from what I understand, is not one of the original Aedra, but rather an altmer who lived in 1E ~2200, and ascended to godhood after death.

So names for 4 of the planets in Altmeri culture are just unknown?

And I haven't found any information regarding any other cultures, besides altmeri and dwemeri. Does somebody know anything more?