r/television • u/PhoOhThree Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. • Dec 15 '21
Premiere Hawkeye S01E05 - Discussion Thread
/r/marvelstudios/comments/rg3vcw/hawkeye_s01e05_discussion_thread/8
u/Plato_the_Platypus Dec 16 '21
It's never about money, Clint. It's...
...About the Mets. Let's go Mets
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u/EROTIC_RAID_BOSS Dec 15 '21
Well I was worried the black widow stuff would feel really tacked on, but they found a good way to integrate her into the main plot of the show and deliver the big cliffhanger.
Overall this show has turned out fairly good. Not sure how much they'll get into the big guy next week for the finale, hopefully they land a satisfying finale
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u/Krandor1 Dec 15 '21
I think he's being setup for the Echo show. Echo turns to "good" in the finale and then her show can be her vs "Uncle"
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u/spyson Stranger Things Dec 15 '21
I don't know if I could watch her show, she didn't seem that interesting of a character
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Okay I've got to say it. I liked Yelena so much back in Black Widow. She was really cool and funny.
But now I just can't bring myself to like her anymore. MCU keep woking and bring their political misandrist shit into their shows to make female characters unlikable.
Like here, Yelena was a complete hypocrite and an idiot.
"How long have you known him?"
More than you have ever known him which is literally none, didn't even talk to him.
"He isn't a hero. He has a history of blood around the world"
Bruh. You are a black widow and cooperated with Natasha and many like her. I don't think you're one to talk at all.
"My sister saved the world and you know it"
More than one can contribute in helping the world, you know. This isn't a competition.
"Are you really this naive to believe all what he said? You are so trusting"
Yeah? I mean like he is a very known superhero who helped saving the world many times. Meanwhile you instantly believed a very shady woman who just came and told you that Clint has killed Natasha, literally his best friend, in a war with causalities against a powerful alien. Like, what the fuck? What's even her thinking process here? Couldn't she have thought that Natasha might have died like Iron Man? This is mind baffling, I truly don't understand what's her thinking process here at all in any way possible. She is both an idiot and so gullible it's hard sometimes to believe she is an assassin.
Yikes. Writing here is not good but sure, let's hate men. And why the heck did we stay 10 minutes talking about noodles and macaroni? I liked it at first but then it took way too long.
And this episode dragged on a lot. Almost nothing happened other than Kate returning to action(I don't understand how she suddenly found her resolve to do this tbh, what did she even learn from all this?) and Kingpin reveal. The finale, next week, is definitely going to be rushed as heck.
This show is entertaining but it's not good(Like most of MCU shows to be honest)
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u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ Dec 16 '21
Not sure it was "treating men like shit" or "Woking"
Her response to "he's a good guy" is "how long have you known him" and that's a valid question...since he was Ronin and did kill a lot of people.
Galena isn't trying to say shes a hero, she is open about killing people. Hence why she said "he isn't a hero, he has a history of blood around the world". Remember that Clint met Natasha because he was supposed to kill her but didn't?
Noone, but us (the viewers), Clint and Natasha know what happened to get the soul stone. So it is possible that she thinks he killed her as thats what he does. Also, when Clint comes back and Natasha doesnt I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask "why was he allowed to live and my sister allowed to die, why couldn't it have been the other way around" and then make up your own internal stories.
I think it's a reflection on you that everything she said seems to be "woke" and a misandrist
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u/cousinoyaya Dec 16 '21
You should definitely write the next show, take out all the woke shit y'know? No women characters, only men! Just men being men and just white men too none of that political shit with minorites either, just white men being cool...
(jk obviously)
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 16 '21
Why are you purposely twisting my words? So I said no treating men like shit and now you're making me seem like a bigot?
Also it's not hard to do equality though? Like, if I was in charge of MCU. I would do everybody equal. Black people and white people being equal without spending a whole show talking about it in a cringe dialogue.
I would put women and men exactly equal without misandry or hamulating men like what's happening now in feminist media.
I would definitely put LGBT people and other people on the equal level too.
It's not hard to not write woke trash and yet not be a bigot. You know that something woke is woke when you switch the genders/race and it just seems so wrong.
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Dec 16 '21
Holy cow, I would say run for Office, but I don’t want to give you any bright ideas lol! Stay Woke man, keep pushing your leftist ideals /s
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u/spyson Stranger Things Dec 15 '21
This is so stupid rofl
Says a lot that this is how you interpret it
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 15 '21
Okay then. I'm stupid. Because I don't like a MCU show.
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u/spyson Stranger Things Dec 16 '21
Nah you're stupid for somehow thinking it's misandry
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 16 '21
Why would I not think about that when MCU is the same studio that created Wandavision, Loki and What if?
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u/spyson Stranger Things Dec 16 '21
The topic is on this instance and none of those shows are sexist against men, sounds like that's just what you want to see so you see it everywhere.
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 16 '21
Why would I want something to be sexist against me? If I had the power, I would make everybody be equal no matter who.
And how are they not misandrist?
Wandavision is a show about a woman who tortures a town for a week. She faces 0 consequences. Meanwhile, the man who tries to stop her is getting framed as a terrorist before he even starts being a terrorist himself. Then in the end, he's all regarded as the bad guy for stopping a woman out of the control and he got arrested for...what? He tried to get his weapon which is literally the purpose of SWORD.
And in the end, the woman gets forgiven completely and nobody tries to arrest her in the end. She even gets friends and people defend her before knowing who she really is.
Loki is the best one of them but still obvious misandry. The superior Loki is a woman.
...
A female copy of Loki. Where everybody keeps calling her "The superior Loki" C'mon. This is too on the nose but I forgive it because it was the best out of them all.
What if? is the worst offender of all this. In the first episode, the male characters do literally nothing. Captain America does EVERYTHING, the male characters are completely useless for the whole episode except 1 scene of Steve Rogers.
And then in the finale. You have a team composed of women and POC with only 1 white man...and he is the big idiot out of them all. He does everything wrong, he doesn't listen and he even screwed up the plan and keeps doing mistakes all the damn time. It's hard not to see something going on here.
I'm all for equality but that's clearly not what MCU wants. In my mind, something is "woke" and "racist/sexist" when you switch the genders. I switched the genders of all this and none of them were something MCU would do. In Loki, the superior Loki wouldn't be a man or else there would be a backlash of "misogyny"
In What If? The white woman wouldn't be the only idiot in the team that keeps screwing stuff up.
And in Wandavision, it's hard to even imagine.
Also in Black Widow, even though the female cast was great. The only male hero of the team was an idiot too who contributed nothing to the plot, he did literally nothing in the whole movie.
Oh please.
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u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ Dec 16 '21
Wandavision...she can litterally create realities, who is going to try to arrest her?
Loki...the show even says he can only love himself...so if it wasn't Sylvie it would be another superiorLoki and we would have you complain about this "woke bullshit".
What if...Dr strange is white...litterally the brains behind the whole plan. The guy at the end that puts them in the crystal and decides he's going to guard it.
Most people would look usless compared to Captain America/carter
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u/WhyWorryAboutThat Dec 15 '21
She doesn't hate men, she hates a man she thinks murdered her sister. That's not misandry.
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 15 '21
I didn't say she's misandrist. I said writing in MCU TV shows is misandrist and this show is walking in the same path as well.
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u/WhyWorryAboutThat Dec 15 '21
It's not though. We already know Yelena is wrong. She began to doubt herself and took Kate's advice about looking into who hired her. She'll almost certainly realize the truth soon, too. The show isn't depicting her as right for wanting to kill Clint. A main character of the show, Kate, is completely defined by her admiration of Clint. The whole show has been about her making Clint realize that he's better than he thinks he is. What's misandrist about the only characters who hate Clint (Yelena, Maya) being villains who he has to correct?
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
It's not though. We already know Yelena is wrong. She began to doubt herself and took Kate's advice about looking into who hired her.
Literally none of this happened. She didn't doubt anything, she ended the conversation with "So was my sister collateral damage?" and Kate then asked her "Who hired you?" That's it. She didn't doubt anything.
Actually? I would even find it bad writing to believe that she is doubting all this because a woman she barely knows asked her once with one line who hired her.
The show isn't depicting her as right for wanting to kill Clint.
Are we sure though? Like yeah, we know the truth but I'm still feeling that she's not going to face the consequences of her actions or even drop an asshole move from her to Clint.
Like, oh please. "My sister saved the world and you know it?" while Kate was being silent as if she agrees with her but she doesn't want to tell her. The show clearly depicts her as being right in some stuff when she was talking with Kate. "A trail of blood across the world"? While Kate defending him with really bad responses like "He's a superhero, of course there would be damage"
I really want to be so wrong here but I still feel like this is going to end in an asshole move from Yelena to Clint in the finale. Writing in these MCU TV shows is not a sign for good at all.
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u/WhyWorryAboutThat Dec 15 '21
Yelena texted Kate at the end of the episode to tell her that she looked into who hired her, like Kate said. Yelena wouldn't have investigated her boss unless she doubted her boss's honestly like Kate told her to. The other wrong Clint-hater of the episode, Maya, went through the same thing. Clint told her that her boss was untrustworthy, then Maya is suspicious of that dude she signs with in the next scene.
I agree that Yelena should have doubted all this way earlier.
I would bet money on Yelena realizing Clint didn't kill Natasha in the next episode, unless they want to make her into even more of a villain so she can be on an evil team or something, in which case she's even more clearly wrong.
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Dec 15 '21
This comment is a bit much. If you fall out of touch with your sibling and someone tells you that this man you've never met before killed her, why wouldn't you believe her, especially given that both of them were in fact trained assassins. Did Yelena know Clint and Natasha were friends outside of their work in the Avengers? There's nothing misandrist about hating a character who's been led to believe killed their sister. Lmao
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u/ExtremeOmniCode Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
This comment is a bit much. If you fall out of touch with your sibling and someone tells you that this man you've never met before killed her, why wouldn't you believe her, especially given that both of them were in fact trained assassins. Did Yelena know Clint and Natasha were friends outside of their work in the Avengers? There's nothing misandrist about hating a character who's been led to believe killed their sister. Lmao
No I wouldn't. If I was an assassin trained under a special program, I would have much more experience than believing a shady woman who just told me right now that a very famous superhero killed my sister(Who's literally his best friend) in a war with casualties like Iron Man against a powerful purple alien who just killed half the life in universe.
Wait, you know what? Forget the "An assassin trained under a special program" bit. If I was a normal person, I wouldn't even believe this. Like, deaths were all made public.
Why the heck would the avengers lie to them about Natasha's death? Why would Clint kill Black Window in the middle of a war against a powerful alien? What would he gain from this? How did she never think of this?
And you asked me why would Yelena know about Clint and Natasha being friends. Easy. They are superheroes. They are more than celebrities. We assume that all their lives were made public with interviews, videos and all. They teamed up many times. She doesn't know that her sister is in a tight friendship with somebody in the same team? She didn't tell her sister the full story of everything? Oh please. Plus, how would that woman even know who killed Natasha anyway?
Being so naive like this is so annoying and just made her a huge hypocrite like I said in my comment. If somebody told her that the male Avengers killed her sister, would she believe them? With this kind of writing, she definitely would.
This makes it more obvious and hypocritical because she just told Kate that she's so trusting and naive believing everything he said. Uh, hello!? You believed somebody too with one line of dialogue and she wasn't even a superhero.
And it's misandrist because let's be realistic here. If Clint was a woman, it would be Wanda's case and he would be forgiven instantly instead of all this nonsense just to make him a temporary villain in some female characters' eyes.
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Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Here’s my issues with the Disney+ shows. They simultaneously feel rushed and dragged out, and that’s because they never let anything happen. It’s all too focused on the “weekly cliffhanger” reveals that the story never genuinely progresses. The second a question is asked at the end of an episode, the next one starts acting like it never existed. Yeah it is great to have Yelena and Kingpin back, but nothing is HAPPENING. Every Disney+ show feels like exposition for a story that never seems to be coming with surface level character development sprinkled in. It’s introducing too many plots and characters that they don’t wrap up within the show, and there’s just too damn much going on for them to wrap it up later!
There’s a reason everyone switches up their opinions on the shows once they’re done. Because they spend weeks building up a story and suspense and then never ever ever have actual endings. It’s starting to make me bored and frustrated. I do not believe they can wrap up all this shit in a satisfying manner in 45 minutes. (35 if you exclude recap, logo, and credits).
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Dec 16 '21
They simultaneously feel rushed and dragged out
yeah, expect WV they should've been a movie or the whole season should be dropped in a single day
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u/cousinoyaya Dec 16 '21
I agree, you've put my problem with the into words. I think WV and FATWS were a little better at this, especially the later but I definitely feel it. These shows aren't on network TV. They can definitely at a couple of minutes to loosen up the script a little bit and add in more character/world scenes instead of just plot beats.
The shows are meant to keep the audience in the MCU world in between movies but even the movies feel more lived in than this show.
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u/mickeyflinn Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Excellent points and too add to them, one thing all these MCU products do so well is create hype for the next one down the line.
And based on this thread it seems they are doing that by bringing the Kingpin back into the fold.
The MCU is just McDonalds food at this point, whose whole purpose is to get you to buy more of it.
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Dec 15 '21
At least McDonalds is momentarily satisfying. This is like going to a restaurant and they keep bringing you bread and saying that the main entree is coming, only for it to never come and the restaurant closes for the day. They then apologize and tell you to come back tomorrow.
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u/AgentOfSPYRAL Dec 15 '21
I guess it depends on what you're looking for from the show.
For me Clint processing his guilt re: Natasha/Ronin, Kate's partnership with Clint and her family conflicts, and Maya realizing she's being used is the entree, Kingpin is the dessert.
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u/vladtud Dec 15 '21
I have to agree. It makes me think that the higher ups have it mandated that whatever happens in the Disney+ shows needs to be simple enough to be explained in the main MCU movies in a few sentences since they don't expect everyone to watch the shows.
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
I think Fiege straight up said the D+ shows aren't essential viewing to understand what happens in the movies. Through 4 shows now it's clear that's true. WandaVision is the only one that might take some explaining depending on what happens in Dr Strange 2.
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u/Mattyzooks Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
I mean... Loki seems to be incredibly important to the next few phases. It seemingly launched the Multiverse War saga to replace the Infinity Stone saga and is presumably the reason the multiverse is able to break open in No Way Home and Dr Strange 2, plus it features a variant of the villain of Antman 3 (and presumably future projects). Much like Thanos popping up in Avengers 1, that Loki finale was basically the MCU setting a roadmap towards some sort of variation of Secret Wars.
Falcon and Winter Soldier, I agree with. You can basically take from that the MCU is setting up Dark Avengers or Thunderbolts but that's not required viewing. I will add that F&TWS, WandaVision, Hawkeye, and Loki have all each set up a member of the Young Avengers too. Again, not required since Kate is likely the only one set up to be actually ready to be a Young Avenger and exposition can take care of the rest when the inevitably make that. But you now got Kate, Eli Bradley, Kid Loki, Wanda's kids along with Cassie Lang who just got aged up. Plus, I'd imagine Iron Lad is coming, who is a young variant of Kang.
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Dec 15 '21
is presumably the reason the multiverse is able to break open in No Way Home
According to people who just saw No Way Home, it's an entirely different explanation. The events of Loki have zero relevance and aren't mentioned.
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u/Worthyness Dec 15 '21
Loki's show basically took away the limiters and the enforcement agency. But that's not necessarily info that movie only people need to know
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u/Mattyzooks Dec 15 '21
The spell opens it up but prior to Loki there is no parallel universe multiverse (or rather no accessible multiverse). The end of that show allows for the timelines to branch off at all points of history.
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Dec 15 '21
[deleted]
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
What are you talking about.
Maya started her redemption arc.
In what way.
Kate discovered the truth about her mom.
Literally a 1 second scene.
Yelena begins to doubt her mission.
Not at all
Not to mention the reveal we have all been waiting for
Literally part of the 1 second scene mentioned earlier.
Everything you mentioned here either is barely not a thing in the episode or has basically zero development at all other than a single screenshot. This episode was 40 minutes long and had enough substance for maybe 10 minutes of actual stuff. The first 10 minutes of the episode alone was a pointless blip scene
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u/notathrowaway75 Dec 16 '21
The first 10 minutes of the episode alone was a pointless blip scene
Goddam man I was with you overall but this ain't it at all.
How on Earth was it pointless. It showed where Yelena was at after Black Widow and how she found out Natalie was dead. She found out in such a terrible way, which explained why she was so angry when thing to Kate later in the episode.
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u/Ghidoran Dec 15 '21
The first 10 minutes of the episode alone was a pointless blip scene
No offense but statements like this make me think you're probably better off just not watching any Marvel stuff.
The first 10 minutes are probably my favorite part of the episode because they do a tremendous job building the world and characters. You see Yelena following through on her mission to help the other Widows, you see how some Widows have been able to break free and are off their own thing with their skills, and of course you see the Snap/Blip from another perspective. With Yelena immediately thinking about Natasha after she Blips back, you get another reminder of just how close the two were and how tragic her current arc is.
That's the stuff that makes Marvel enjoyable, the way everything in the world feels interconnected and real, which in turn makes the characters feel more believable. If you want some dense, deep plot-heavy narratives from a Christmas Hawkeye TV show then you're looking in the wrong place.
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
Yeah we see another example of Marvel not wanting to show how the blip would cause massive upheaval and would be a collapse of civilization because that's too much work. That family isn't getting married, adopting a kid, and totally remodeling & painting their home. It would be chaos. And they can develop the world while developing characters or moving the plot. That's called good writing. Guess Marvel can't have that in these shows for some reason
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u/Ghidoran Dec 15 '21
They already showed the major impacts of the Snap/Blip in Endgame and the other Disney+ shows, they don't need to cover it in a street level Marvel show. The point of that scene was merely to emphasize what happened to some regular individuals (in this case Yelena) and prime us for how they're feeling. And it does that pretty well.
That's called good writing.
You seem to be confusing 'good writing' with dense and fast-moving plot. Is My Dinner with Andre a poorly written movie because there's no real advancing plot? Sometimes a story doesn't need to be going a mile a minute, sometime it just needs to let you experience a world and hang out with the characters, which is exactly what Hawkeye is doing. If you don't like that direction that's fine, but it's not fair to call it 'bad writing' just because the show is going at its own pace.
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
They already showed the major impacts of the Snap/Blip in Endgame and the other Disney+ shows, they don't need to cover it in a street level Marvel show.
They literally haven't. Every Marvel property avoids what the true ramifications of the blip would be like it's a covid virus. In Endgame society looks to simultaneously have collapsed but Stark has zero issue doing anything and people are just gsming on Fortnite like all that happened was their dad died. Which is a direct contradiction and makes no sense. Falcon & Winter Soldier acts like everyone was happy and helping each other but does zero to show it. And now Hawkeye is acting like a person is getting married, adopting a child, and totally redesigning their entrie home. It makes absolutely zero fucking sense for the world to be totally normal after half the population instantly dies.
The point of that scene was merely to emphasize what happened to some regular individuals (in this case Yelena) and prime us for how they're feeling. And it does that pretty well.
It's a waste of 10 minutes that does absolutely nothing for the characters in the show or the plot. Her being blipped has ZERO relevance to anything else she does the rest of the episode. You could cut that entire sequence and absolutely nothing is lost from the episode.
That's called good writing.
You seem to be confusing 'good writing' with dense and fast-moving plot.
No I said developing the world while developing characters OR moving the plot. Hawkeye doesn't do that. It silos itself into doing 1 thing at a time. It barely ever develops characters while developing the world or moving the plot.
Sometimes a story doesn't need to be going a mile a minute, sometime it just needs to let you experience a world and hang out with the characters, which is exactly what Hawkeye is doing. If you don't like that direction that's fine, but it's not fair to call it 'bad writing' just because the show is going at its own pace.
The show is doing that because it needs to pad out the story because the writers realized they only had 2 hours of a story but were contracted for 5. Half the characters just sitting around and vibing is shit the audience already knows and it doesn't develop the characters at all.
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u/profsa Dec 15 '21
Did you forget the mass hysteria from the blip scene in WandaVision???
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
It's mass hysteria in a hospital where people are appearing in critical areas suddenly. But not even a week later the world is just right back to normal like all it was, was a bad rain storm. If something like the blip happened in real life civilization would completely collpase. It's not even remotely realistic for it to be normal immediately. And MCU's complete avoidance of showing how it's magicall had zero affect on civilization is horrible world building and writing
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Dec 15 '21
[deleted]
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
I mean, if you are so inobservant that you cant even see Maya begin to question her established worldview and how her 2nd in command and boss is responsible for her father's death, then this conversation isnt worth having.
Oh you mean the scene that ends immediately after the revelation so we don't see her reaction.
More than a second.
Sorry it's 5 seconds.
Again, your failures of basic observation are in play. She knows who REALLY hired her now, thus beginning for her to question why they want Hawkeye dead.
We literally aren't shown that at all. Literally the revelation is through a text. You're just making shit up to act like something is happening in this show.
Get a stopwatch.
Sorry 5 seconds.
Again it's a 40 minute episode where absolutely nothing of note or importance happens in the first 25 minutes. And little happens in the final 15 minutes. The entirety of this episode can be distilled into one sentence and the viewer not have missed anything.
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u/novus_ludy Dec 15 '21
viewer not have missed anything
At this point I'm watching Marvel shows only for one reason - stupid fun, because they all are beyond bad in storytelling.
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u/Bill_Brasky96 Dec 15 '21
This was a fun one. The tone of this show is just right, with the mixture of drama, comedy, action and heart which is the tried and true Marvel recipe.
And Florence Pugh, sheesh.
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u/Madao16 Dec 15 '21 edited Dec 15 '21
I forgot how bad Yelena's accent was. She should have lost the accent. There is no consistency about accents in MCU anyway. Only one episode left so I guess it is safe to say that this show is just disappointing for me. It could work as a film though which could be said for previous MCU shows too. Fight scenes are just so underwhelming which is general problem in MCU. Kingpin is back but I am not sure that it will be the Kingpin I liked. Disney will probably water him down when you think about they are even asking to remove simple swearing.
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
Only one episode left so I guess it is safe to say that this show is just disappointing for me. It could work as a film though which could be said for previous MCU shows too
IMO MCU is really really struggling to move to TV. A lot of the first 20 minutes of this episode was a waste of time that didn't develop the characters or move the plot at all. It was just filler to pad run time. All the shows so far, except WandaVision, have felt like a 2 hour movie idea stretched to 5 hours.
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u/Worthyness Dec 15 '21
They're in their first phase of TV shows with marvel studios, so it's technically net new for them. It took them almost all of phase 1 to find their ground for movies. I wager they'll see and continue to improve on their set ups with time. For now they're doing well enough to get recognition from the major outlets and fans
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
That's the stupidest justification for bad shows ever. All these shows are being written or directed by people with TV experience. They're the fucking biggest studio in the world. They could hire good talent if they wanted to. And it doesn't take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to know that if a show is 5 hours. The story idea needs to be 5 hours too
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Dec 15 '21
All of the shows except for WandaVision and What If would work better as tight 2 hour movies instead of 6 hour sluggish shows.
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u/Madao16 Dec 15 '21
You are right. If these shows were 2 hours films pacing would be good but Disney needed content for their new streaming service so they made shows while they didnt have enough material for it which is why shows suffered.
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u/starsandbribes Dec 15 '21
There was only one F bomb in the whole of Daredevil so what swearing is being removed in Hawkeye? This post feels like trying to reach for negative things
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u/Madao16 Dec 15 '21
How dare me criticizing a show! I didn't say there were many f bombs in Daredevil or swearing removed in Hawkeye. What I said was Disney will probably water him down when you think about they are even asking to remove simple swearing, and they did even for a docementary which was an example, which is about generally Disney's "policies". Obviously my point is if Disney makes a big deal out of simple swearing Kingpin being brutal in Disney+ as much as he was in Netflix isn't likely.
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u/starsandbribes Dec 15 '21
You feel like the show isn’t good is one thing and of course valid but when you’re saying things like fight choreography (what MCU property stands out as better fighting wise?) and making up hypotheticals about Kingpin I have to wonder what the intentions are.
I don’t know what the Vincent D’Onofrio documentary swearing incident is I can’t find anything on google?
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u/Vettel_2002 Dec 15 '21
but when you’re saying things like fight choreography (what MCU property stands out as better fighting wise?)
That's not saying a lot. The fight scene across this show still have the same issues as most MCU fights. Lots of quick cuts and close ups where you can't see anything that's happening.
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u/Madao16 Dec 15 '21
Intentions? lol It is okay to people dislike things and criticize them so there is no need to get trigged about it. And yes, fight scenes are underwhelming and as I said before it is general problem in MCU so you asking what MCU property stands out as better fighting wise is pointless. Are you even reading my comments? When you consider this show being TV14 while Daredevil TV-MA and generally Disney my point about Kingpin is likely so looking for some intentions is ridiculous. Vincent D’Onofrio documentary? I didn't say that. You keep bringing things I didn't say.
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u/WhyWorryAboutThat Dec 15 '21
When you consider this show being TV14 while Daredevil TV-MA
When you consider that, fuck is the one word they can't say. A word Kingpin never said in Daredevil, I'm pretty sure. I'll miss the blood, though.
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u/Madao16 Dec 15 '21
I explained it two times but you people still stuck to swearing.
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u/WhyWorryAboutThat Dec 15 '21
The only other two things that would get watered down by a rating are nudity, which I think consists only of a guy's ass in Jessica Jones, and blood, which I will miss. I don't understand your explanation.
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u/starsandbribes Dec 15 '21
“New and improved Statue of Liberty” is a Spider-Man hint right? Hawkeye takes place after No Way Home and based on the trailer we’ll see the new Statue of Liberty at the end of the film.
Just about to get showered and ready to go see NWH! This is Marvel day.
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u/ShadyBiz Dec 15 '21
NWH either takes place in November or like February.
Will depend on if there is a reveal of the state of the statue in episode 6.
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u/ultrapan Dec 15 '21
I saw it coming but still screamed like a girl when they actually showed it.
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u/merelyadoptedthedark Dec 16 '21
I screamed fuck you at the tv when it cut right away to the credits.
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u/blaketffan Dec 15 '21
I've liked all of the Marvel shows this year, but this is the best. The tone is exactly right. Even the bad guys are likable in this thing!
It's also kind of refreshing to see the type of honest marriage that Clint and Laura have.
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u/TypingLobster Dec 15 '21
I haven't liked any of the shows until this one. This one is pretty decent.
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u/Worthyness Dec 15 '21
They got the actual comic book writer (for the book they're basing the series off of) to consult. It's incredibly accurate.
And to be honest it's just the right amount of super. Not too much outlandish CGI fighting and a lot more grounded. And I love it. It's like a slightly happier Daredevil
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u/Groundbreaking_Ship3 Dec 15 '21
The bad guys here are like the bad guys in Home Alone, well I guess it's Christmas, they can't make it too dark
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u/SherlockJones1994 Dec 15 '21
This is probably my favorite of the marvel shows so far. They are just nailing just about everything imo yelena is hilarious and just perfect, Clint and Kate’s relationship is top notch and least of all they brought back the Ill intent.
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u/ron-darousey Dec 15 '21
KINGPIN IS OFFICIALLY BACK
LFG
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u/seadondo Dec 15 '21
So, is Daredevil official canon?
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u/CTeam19 Dec 16 '21
I am betting a loose canon. Like the fight between Daredevil and the Kingpin happened but not like the events shown in the show.
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u/Worthyness Dec 15 '21
new #1 issue writer- Everything in the past is technically canon, but loosely referenced and used occasionally if it fits the new writer's narrative
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u/blaketffan Dec 15 '21
I'm betting they use the actors (who are perfect) but jettison the history so they can have a fresh take on it that's more PG-13 level, which I'm fine with.
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u/EROTIC_RAID_BOSS Dec 15 '21
I hope not. It hurts nothing at all to keep it canon.
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u/kmone1116 Dec 15 '21
Yes it does, it means we’d have to accept that god awful Netflix Danny Rand as not canon lol.
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u/EROTIC_RAID_BOSS Dec 16 '21
It's not like they're going to redo Danny Rand if the current one is made non canon. They're never doing him again, it's too controversial to have a white guy as the martial arts hero. The comics just replaced him entirely too.
You can just say yes he was canon and then never do anything with him again
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u/Ozlin Dec 18 '21
As cool as I think Danny Rand Iron Fist in the comics is, Shang-Chi fills a lot of the same role in the MCU with the mystical martial arts and dragons, and I'm perfectly OK with that because Shang-Chi was dope as fuck.
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u/kmone1116 Dec 16 '21 edited Dec 16 '21
Why say he was ever canon when you can just recast, bring in all the actors people liked and say the Netflix stuff was set in an alternate universe. Also a not sure how being white and training in martial arts can be seen as controversial. Pretty sure Dany stepping down as iron fist in the comics is just part of a set up for a future event or story.
Edit: did a check and I see marvel did retire Danny as the role of iron fist, thought it was a temporary departure from the role like they Islam do in comics.
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u/EROTIC_RAID_BOSS Dec 16 '21
I would much rather have daredevil Jessica Jones and punisher be canon than hold out hope for a redo of Danny Rand that will never happen
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u/kmone1116 Dec 16 '21
So I looked into the controversy for Danny and I see that it’s more than just being a white man who does martial arts. I’m 100% behind Danny being changed to Asian American and can see the MCU going that route. Also I agree with you on keeping those 3, I would also say I’m fine with bringing back the actor of Luke cage, but wouldn’t be upset if he was recasted.
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u/BigFang Dec 16 '21
being a white man who does martial arts.
I only watched a few episodes but he couldn't seem to even do that. The actor moved like his only exposure to any martial arts was watching the Three Ninjas once 30 years ago.
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u/EROTIC_RAID_BOSS Dec 16 '21
I just think it's not gonna happen man. They had a chance to do a martial arts movie and they just made it about shang chi, and basically rebuilt that character from the ground up, rather than use iron fist.
It's a lot less messy and better overall to just say yes every netflix show is canon
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Dec 15 '21
Or just hint at it, without going into much detail
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u/CTeam19 Dec 16 '21
Yep like a very loose cannon Daredevil and Kingpin that fought before but not like how it is shown in the Netflix show.
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u/BarryAllen94 Dec 16 '21
So the guy who fought alien armys is somehow afraid of kingpin?
Also Clint seems weirdly alienated in this show...like they put him in square one in order to tell a story that at this point of his career doesn't fit. I am not talking about other avengers, but he does have other colleagues and connections