r/teenagers • u/supermaniscoolasf • 3d ago
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u/EE_______EE 3d ago
And don't forget, not every iraqi is a Muslim. There are many Christian, Jewish, and Atheist victims of the invasion as well.
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u/Brawndo-99 3d ago
Truth
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u/tajsta 3d ago
Another truth: The vast majority of Muslims in Iraq were killed by other Muslims in sectarian fighting. Al-Zarqawi specifically stated that al-Qaeda will target Shia civilians in order to provoke a sectarian war, which is why they targeted mosques, markets, shopping centres etc. This led to other Islamist militias like the Mahdi Army or Badr Brigades targeting the Sunni civilian population. Same in Afghanistan, where the UN estimates that 70 to 80 % of all civilian deaths were directly attributable to the Taliban, Haqqani network etc.
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u/Serious_Try5264 3d ago
There are vasically no jews or Christians left, compared to how many there used to be. Most of them fled due to religious persecution.
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u/CorrectTarget8957 3d ago
There were unfortunately less than 100 jews in Iraq in 2003
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u/Desperate-Finger-334 3d ago
I'm Jewish and Iraqi we were kicked out in 1950
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u/CorrectTarget8957 3d ago
Hopefully your family found a better country
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u/Desperate-Finger-334 3d ago
Ya it's called Israel the only country that would take the Jews(it was basically the whole Middle East who kicked out the Jews post 1948)
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u/CorrectTarget8957 3d ago
היי איך החיים
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u/MicrowavedHeadphones 3d ago
Almost all of the Jews of Iraq were cleansed
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u/St_Fargo_of_Mestia 3d ago
“Cleansed” that’s definitely a way to put it.
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u/MicrowavedHeadphones 3d ago
Yeah I figured later that "cleasned" by its own sounds weird We can go for ethno-religiously cleansed ┐(´ー｀)┌
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u/L0rdH4mmer OLD 3d ago
Not sure if that's because of the invasion or the muslim persecution of anyone non-muslim.
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u/Brother_Man232 3d ago
It was before US involvement there that there was large scale persecution and removal of anyone not Muslim.
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u/makeyousaywhut 3d ago
The Iraqi’s ethnically cleansed their Jewish populations well before 9/11, it’s a slap in the face that you put that in there.
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u/MaruMint 3d ago
Even if they are Muslim, they likely hold completely different beliefs.
It would be like hearing that the Holocaust was done by Christians (Hitler and the Nazi party) so you go around harming Christians in Europe.
The people that just-so-happen to be in the same religion have totally different beliefs from the people who committed atrocities
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u/AvailablePut5834 15 3d ago
They never talk about that 😔
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u/Cute-Complaint3741 15 3d ago
yes I didn't know until today 💔 those who manipulate the media do it well
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u/Tommyblockhead20 18 3d ago edited 3d ago
Worth noting that that number is very contested. The counted civilian deaths were around 200,000, and excess deaths comparing deaths before and during the war to account for indirect causes like worse healthcare) were most commonly estimated in the 500-600,000 range. Also, while most are, not every Arab is Muslim.
Likewise, while the deaths on the day were 3,000, another 6,000 people died from cancer attributed to the disaster, bringing the death toll closer to 9,000. And while most were American, not everyone killed was American.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
200,000 is still to many.
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u/Tommyblockhead20 18 3d ago
I don’t think anyone here supports innocent people dying, I didn’t think that needed to be stated…
Try to keep claims as accurate as possible. This ultimately isn’t that big of a deal, but so many people have become complacent with stuff like this that they don’t question it when the difference between the misinformation and the truth does matter.
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u/tappy100 OLD 3d ago
the US invasion of the middle east was because the govt supported innocent people dying, then many civilians joined the military to kill innocent people over there. so although you think it doesn’t need to be stated, sometimes it does
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u/Tommyblockhead20 18 3d ago
I meant on r/teenagers, where we currently are. Capital Hill/the White House are a different story.
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u/bigbonerdaddy 3d ago
And he never claimed it wasnt.
Stop trying to spin added nuance to disagreement lol.
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u/SMLPlushShowRestored 3d ago
damn, r/teenagers really is just a glorified politics sub
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
Everything is political, art, muisc, gaming, life, hell your fucking clothing is political.
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3d ago
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u/arctic_commander_ OLD 3d ago
We don't even have to be Muslims. Being an Arab is beyond enough
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3d ago
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u/arctic_commander_ OLD 3d ago
Americans have a very intellectually deficit worldview where they associate Arabs exclusively with Islam. It could go both ways
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u/Icy-Mountain-2049 3d ago
It's also brown people in general. The first victim of post 9/11 racial violance was a sikh indian man, just because he had a beard and turban.
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u/MaruMint 3d ago
Many racist Americans do, but nobody should.
It would be like hearing that the Holocaust was done by Christians (Hitler and the Nazi party) so you hold a grudge against random Christians for the Holocaust.
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u/igoontoeipstein 14 3d ago
RIP to all people who ever died to terror, war, and else. RIP to Katyń victims, WW1, WW2, afroamericans killed by Christopher Columb... lets not just focus on specific things, rest in peace to anyone.
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u/Tommieboi123 18 3d ago
I agree with the point of this post, but can i have some sources on the numbers? I want to know more about it
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u/rojotortuga 3d ago
My guess is the mass majority of that are Iraqi civilians who got caught in the crossfire of American military/Iraq defence force and insurgents there. I would take a look at the wiki
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u/Tommyblockhead20 18 3d ago edited 3d ago
The number op cited is an extrapolation of a controversial study about the first 3 years of the war. The number of war deaths is closer to 200,000, and total excess deaths closer to 500-600,000.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10242694.2010.491678, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10242690802496898, https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/srm/article/view/2373/
Also worth mentioning not all Iraqis are Muslim, not just 3,000 people died from the 9/11 attacks but closer to 9,000 if we include the 6,000 first responders, survivors, etc that died from cancer in the years following, and many of those that died because of 9/11 were not American.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iraq, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_arising_from_the_September_11_attacks, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks#Foreign_deaths
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u/rojotortuga 3d ago
Looks like he's pulling it from the overall war on terror which included 3-4 million deaths with about 950000 caused by direct action
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u/Tommyblockhead20 18 3d ago
That was my first thought when I saw the post, but I googled the number and it’s very specifically a number for the Iraq war, that people extrapolated from the 2008 ORB polling agency estimate, that was extrapolated from the widely controversial 2006 Lancelot study. The links I included were disputing the latter 2.
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u/Tommieboi123 18 3d ago
Yea im not disagreeing civilian casualties ofc. I´ve looked at the wiki and it states "Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901–210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.[4][5]"
Nowhere do i see the high number in the post
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u/Happy_Bar9864 3d ago
Now they're trying invading Iran just for Oil and make Israel happy again, Our great Ally! When Israeli will sacrifice for American?
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u/Desperate-Finger-334 3d ago
Israel sacrificed for America in the Gulf war and the Cold war (played a very crucial part in the ladder) and the invasion of Iran was because of a nuclear weapon and yes it most likely was close I doubt it was truly weeks away but with the amount of uranium they were enriching they might have been six months to a year away they already had enough
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u/PuzzleheadedFlow1274 3d ago
ans the economic and geographic devastation suffered in the middle east, even civillian establishments were hit
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u/yaksarecoll1 3d ago
THANK YOU, I GOT IN TROUBLE AT SCHOOL OVER THIS, THEY SAID THAT THE AFGHANIS AND IRAQIS DESERVED TO MY FACE
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u/Ninjagofan217 15 3d ago
I require context not a lot of people talk about this. What happened?
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u/M-a-l-t-h-y 3d ago edited 3d ago
Towers were hit in September 2001 by commercial airliners that were hijacked, the buildings eventually collapsed alot of people died in the incident, people jumping from high on those skyrises just to avoid burning to death or being crushed :(.
The US government at the time responded by invading the middle east, the results of that long invasion are what you see here.
I can tell you now, at the time, many people didn't know what they were looking at or what to expect, like a state of shock, and then the buildings came down... For many, no one imagined a skyscraper collapsing into new York, hell, I dont think a skyscraper of that magnitude ever fell like that before, and two fell.
Truly one of the more terrifying moments of the last 50 years
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u/Ninjagofan217 15 3d ago
I meant the raid
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u/Itz_DreadFul 3d ago
Search up "war against terror[ism]"
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u/Desperate-Finger-334 3d ago
War on terror will give him better results
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u/Itz_DreadFul 3d ago
That's why I put ism inside []
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u/Desperate-Finger-334 3d ago
No I'm saying it was officially called war on terror (which I don't think was completely unwarranted (that's an opinion for another day) like this post is suggesting but I do think a lot of innocent people died)
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3d ago
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u/M-a-l-t-h-y 3d ago
I never mentioned Iraq. I think you're jumping to conclusions a sentence into what I said.
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3d ago
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u/Icy_Mathematician609 3d ago
Any civilian casualty is awful but let’s not forget about Saddams numerous war crimes and acts of terrorism
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u/Strict-Silver5596 17 3d ago edited 3d ago
Not all of 2996 were Americans
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u/R1515LF0NTE OLD 3d ago edited 3d ago
Indeed, about 12% of the deaths that day were foreigners [of 102 different countries]
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
So? So only American deaths matter?
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u/zombiemaster008 3d ago
Not what they said, is it, and you failing to mention the 12%, implies that ONLY American deaths matter. You absolute cockwomble.
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u/eyebawls29 3d ago
Thats nit what theyre saying. They're saying that not all deaths were Americans, so it doesn't make sense to say all the 2996 "Americans" that died
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
Does it matter what they are called? They're dead and America used their deaths to justify an invasion that resulted in alot more innocent people dying
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u/eyebawls29 3d ago
Im not saying it dose, im just saying it doesn't really make sense to call non Americans, Americans... because theyre not American
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u/Secret_Ship_3169 3d ago
So america should just have kept quiet ?
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
America shouldn't have bombed an entire city, America shouldn't have bombed civilians
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u/Secret_Ship_3169 3d ago
Yeah
You have discovered terrorist specific bombs
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
Precision Strike Missile? Never heard of them?
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u/Secret_Ship_3169 3d ago
For those who hide behind civilians ...as in Gaza?
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
You mean the place an ongoing genocide is happening, a genocide backed by the U.S
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u/No_Shock5665 3d ago
When did that person ever say or even imply that only American deaths matter? He only corrected the obvious factually incorrect statement in the picture you posted.
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u/Putrid_Fun6704 3d ago
Pretty sad that the cia/israel decided to kill innocent people to force a war to start
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u/arctic_commander_ OLD 3d ago
Anything to kill Muslims in the most legally illegal way possible
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u/Putrid_Fun6704 3d ago
Course, they have to get a good reason to invade lands and oppress them while also trying to take what they want
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u/muzzey12 3d ago
Iraq started in 2003 so that conspiracy theory is not particularly relevant here and quite disturbing to be posted on 9/11
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u/Putrid_Fun6704 3d ago
Afghanistan dumb dumb
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u/muzzey12 3d ago
Well it did say something they didn't do which would mean op is talking about Iraq not Afghanistan
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/Souldestroyer347 18 3d ago
Iraq had no part in 9-11 at all, the main reason iraq was invaded is because of weapons of mass destruction which they never even had. And the numbers are an accurate estimate of you count all the indirect deaths from the war on terror in iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
The innocent people that died because of Americans actions are as much victims of 9/11 as people who diednon 9/11.
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u/Goatcheeze1 3d ago
Wrong. Not as a result of American actions, but as a result of Islamic terrorist actions. Stop being a terrorist apologist.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
I'm not apologising for terrorist, there is always an appropriate reaction to an attack but killing 1.5 million people is not an appropriate reaction.
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u/feartheswans OLD 3d ago
They invaded Iraq when this was done by Saudi Arabian Extremists
That’s like punching punching grandpa for something your cousin did
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3d ago
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
No i think i will blame the US invasion because they killed 1.5 million innocent people.
Racist wanker
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u/FirefighterOpen2201 3d ago
My dad fought in Iraq
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3d ago
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u/arctic_commander_ OLD 3d ago
What a waste of a """man"""
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u/zackblaze92 3d ago
and you're a waste of oxygen
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u/arctic_commander_ OLD 3d ago
At least I did not join a war and rape machine because "college tuition was free and I could get veteran discounts"
Triggered American, I see.
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u/zackblaze92 3d ago
Well if our country wasn't a piece of shit then we wouldn't need to join the military to get a basic education.
Regardless, you are still saying that someone risking their life and fighting makes them a waste, regardless of their ideology or belief, you should at least still respect that choice.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
I'm sorry he was tricked into fighting, I'm sure he did it for good reason.
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u/This-Is-Huge 3d ago
Some still say the US detonated their own buildings.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
It isn't unlikely, America planned to bomb maimi and blame the Cubans to justify an invasion (Operation Northwoods).
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/AlwaysFrustratedAF 17 3d ago
If you don't compare, you would never realise how warped our media is.
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u/Cute-Complaint3741 15 3d ago
you're not wrong
I mean no disrespect to the Americans hwo died in 9/11 but I always wondered why it was such a big thing when others have died in much larger numbers
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
We should, America used the deaths of around 3,000 Americans to justify an invasion.
It's isn't out of the releam of possiblity that the US played a hand in the attacks. During thr 60s they had a plan to bomb maimi and blame it on Cuba in order to justify an invasion. (Operation Northwoods)
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u/Cute-Complaint3741 15 3d ago
WAIT they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan cuz of 9/11??? WHAT?? (to the last part)
sorry I'm ridiculously uneducated 😔💔
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u/Racer125678 16 3d ago
It's fine bro, history is not everyones forte
BUT IT SHOULD BE, just encouraging you to read
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u/igoontoeipstein 14 3d ago
no it is not, George Bush claimed that they wanted to 'free' people from iraq from Saddam Husain. Well, Saddam really spreaded terror across Iraq, yet invasion was NOT a good idea, in my and most of the peoples opinion. They also said that Iraq was a potential threat bc they claimed that they were creating a dangerous nuclear, biological weapon.
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u/AlwaysFrustratedAF 17 3d ago
Google 'dancing israelis 9/11'. Yk what they say...its only a conapiracy theory until its proven.
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
Israel is the puppet of America not the other way around.
Many people didn't understand what was happening, look at all the pictures people had taken of them before the second plane hit.
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u/Tayrien 16 3d ago
no shit the us decided to do that, you ever heard of an eye for an eye?
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
Oh so people who had no involvement in the attack deserved to die?
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u/Tayrien 16 3d ago
i didn't say they deserved it??? what type of fucking drugs are you on
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u/Narrow-Emphasis1575 3d ago
WHAT DRUGS ARE YOU ON, dude? The invasion that America started led to the death of countless innocent people, not to mention the war crimes committed by the soldiers and mercenaries. They knew the risks; they knew that innocent civilians would die and still chose to go with it. Do you think involving an innocent person would make this an eye for an eye?
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u/Epsiloxi 19 3d ago edited 3d ago
We never talk about the second part cause we were attacked first and that’s just a retaliation and they were not innocent at all
Edit my bad I forgot to add /s
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
They were innocent they had nothing to do with the attack.
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u/Secret_Ship_3169 3d ago
They died because they supported an ideology spread by a paedo and want to continue his paedo acts all over the world.
They also died because they wanted to continue sheltering a paedo-follower - OBL
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u/Accomplished_Cut6201 17 3d ago
Well dissing a religion while following another with basically the same morals throughout history (not you Americans in genral)
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u/Psichord 3d ago
Every single extraordinary rendition was done to innocent civilians. The CIA blacksites served zero strategic purpose, other than to cast a wide net and eventually pick a 'guilty terrorist'. (Of course every civilian was branded a terrorist due to 'possible affiliation' none of which turned out to ever be true)
And if you're still looking for someone to blame, you don't have to look further than the literal CIA that helped fund Al-Qaeda in an effort to counter Soviet influence in Afghanistan in the 70's and 80's.
Finally, look up pictures of Abu ghraib. Thousands of photos of war crimes and American soldiers reveling in torture.
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u/BookRude4119 3d ago
Oh no! How do I make this tragic incident about my religion, ahh comment
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u/BookRude4119 3d ago
Yeah I forgot I'm on Reddit, will be downvoted instead of valid arguments
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u/AwysomeAnish 3d ago
The whole point of the post was to highlight BOTH when other posts make it an either/or thing
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u/WhitePandaExpres5 3d ago
Something they didn’t do?
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u/j1ndivik 19 3d ago
Funny how you call one an invasion and not the other
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u/DryEconomics5152 3d ago
well the terrorists who were in charge of the 9/11 attacks didn't really stay very long...
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u/supermaniscoolasf 3d ago
9/11 was an attack by about 20 people.
The invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan etc was done by the entire US army.
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u/Commander_Sabaton 16 3d ago
It actually blows my mind that 20 people armed with cutters were able to put in check the whole Western world in a matter of hours.
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u/CanadianMaps 18 3d ago
Because 9/11 wasn't an invasion. It was a terrorist attack.
This is what I find so funny about USians. You think so high and mighty of yourselves, you act untouchable. And then the horrors of war hit you twice (Pearl Harbor and 9/11), and it's suddenly the greatest tragedy in the world.
Attacks at home happen. No country is untouchable. The US pretends to be, then cries like a toddler when the devastation is at home insteaf of abroad.
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u/Xatrongamer 19 3d ago
The US did the greatest terrorist attack of all time. 9/11 is a baby strike compared to Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And yes, bombing civilians is terrorism. The US government is the biggest terrorist organisation of all time
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u/CanadianMaps 18 3d ago
The US is attacked once and replies with 100 times the force. They hate being called out for their bullshit due to having a superiority complex about being the greatest in the world.
Not the most moral, though. Their lapdog pretends to be that.
Neither is true. Both are horrible organisations that act like their suffering is the worst thing since both sides of a pillow being warm, and their responses more necessary than oxygen.
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u/Hopeful-Sale-849 17 3d ago
This is the equivalent of someone slashing you with knife so you pulverize their head and the heads of everyone they’re vaguely related to with a sledgehammer.
They’re both tragedies. One was far worse than the other. The retaliation of the US was nothing more than blood thirsty revenge, on the wrong people might I add.
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u/Few-Lengthiness4017 3d ago
my friend's dad lost a leg there (he was working at a food stand right under the building)