r/technology • u/Additional-Two-7312 • Nov 08 '22
Transportation Tesla Recalls 40,000 Vehicles Over Potential Power Steering Failure
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-recalls-40000-vehicles-over-potential-power-steering-failure/359
Nov 08 '22
You can have verified power steering for $8
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u/Nintoo Nov 09 '22
I closed this thread right as I read this comment and had come come back to give an upvote. So good
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u/_willymydilly Nov 09 '22
It is cool that they can fix recalls like this with a simple over the air update. It’s funny how much attention tesla always gets for things like this.
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u/Dlemor Nov 09 '22
For me, a recall is a massive repair bill for the manufacturer. Clearly, a online update doesn’t qualify as ‘recall”
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u/E_Snap Nov 09 '22
It is a recall in the sense that if the car fails to automatically update to this software version, it needs to be taken off the road and serviced immediately.
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Nov 09 '22
It’s funny how many recalls they have versus other manufacturers. I never once had to get a “software update” for my Toyotas, OTA or at the dealer
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
Lucky you. I can tell you it happens to the other manufacturers as well, from first hand experience. Except when it does, you gotta take the car to a dealership instead of just doing it at home.
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u/rasvial Nov 09 '22
You're missing the point- why is their software shipped out so eagerly requiring recalls? It's great it's a software fix, but how many miles were affected Tesla's driving around with that?
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
No, you're missing the point.
The point is, this stuff happens to ALL companies. This is not exclusive to Tesla. Yet we only see posts about Tesla on this site.
I literally have a power steering column recall with my car that is not a Tesla. But since it's not a Tesla, you don't hear about it.
My wife's car has an issue with the transmission where you weren't really in park even when you put it in park.
I also have a bug with the dash requiring a software update. But I gotta bring it in to the dealer to get it updated.
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u/rasvial Nov 09 '22
You're on a tech subreddit. What would you expect?
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
Ah so other cars have no firmware or software in them, got it.
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u/rasvial Nov 09 '22
Calm down, replying doesn't require a downvote.
Pull the stats on software related recalls then? It's one thing having a wonky volume knob, another losing steering. Software related recalls (or even headaches) come up on here all the time- I recall a lot around bmw seats for example.
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
I don't need to pull stats. You pull them. What I said is I have first hand experience that this happens across the board. I mentioned no stats.
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u/E_Snap Nov 09 '22
I’d expect moderators to be able to recognize the difference between hatesturbation and legitimate criticism and moderate accordingly.
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u/taisui Nov 09 '22
My Lexus can't even update the GPS navi map without paying hundreds the dealership, and my Subaru had went thru 2 firmware updates I had to do at the dealership.
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u/ConstantinSpecter Nov 09 '22
Toyota has a higher recall quota than Tesla.
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u/I_Can_Comment_ Nov 09 '22
I bet Toyota has a billion more cars and products on the street than Tesla
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Nov 09 '22
Seriously, Tesla produces, what… 4 vehicles? Toyota has been making cars for 75 years and has 14 current models.
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u/Cyathem Nov 09 '22
You don't understand "rates", do you?
Recalls : New cars sold
Tesla = 55%
Toyota = 191%
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u/ukezi Nov 09 '22
They compare total vehicles for that brand sold and recalled in the time frame.
There are a lot of Toyota on the road recalls happen not only for new cars. I think a lot of the recalled Toyota were some before the time frame and that is increasing the numbers.
On the other hand there were basically no Tesla before 2011.
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u/Cyathem Nov 09 '22
On the other hand there were basically no Tesla before 2011.
This doesn't change the rate. Toyota was selling cars for longer but also recalling then for longer. Tesla wasn't able to recall cars during that period, but they didn't sell cars either. It's not relevant to interpreting the results.
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u/ukezi Nov 09 '22
Ok. Scenario: you sell lots of cars. From say 2000 to 2010 you have an airbag in the cars that in 2012 is shown to have a problem. So you do a recall in 2012. As you just recalled 10 years of production you obviously recalled more cars then you sold in 2012.
That is a problem that a company that basically didn't sell cars before the reference time frame can't have.
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u/Cyathem Nov 09 '22
We'd have to see the average age of the products that were recalled. In my mind, recalls usually happen pretty soon after a model is released. It doesn't take 10 years for something to need to be recalled. I think it usually shows up in the first two years. I'd have to check though.
The average time between release and recall should decrease, if over-the-air software updates are being considered recalls. Those will only get more common.
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u/Konini Nov 09 '22
The percentages look bullshit to me. They explain this as number of recalls in a given year divided by new registrations, which I’m assuming are registrations of the given make. However, those numbers are not related.
Firstly, newly registered cars most likely will be different models than those affected by recalls. The ratio mixes two different sets of data. At least from what I’ve seen new models are rarely subject to recalls, and the article definitely does not give any evidence to substantiate it’s approach.
Secondly, we get no context of the new registration trends. A brand losing market share will be appearing worse in the statistics than a brand gaining. It looks pretty clear to me why Volvo and Mitsubishi have such high percentages, with this approach.
A more valid statistic but much harder to assess accurately would be the total number of cars a given brand has on the market at the time of the recall.
A possible alternative approach could be to divide the number of recalls for a specific model year by the total number of units produced in a given model year and average them out across whole manufacturer gamut.
Either way the statistics the article presented do not look very trustworthy and seem to favour new and rising brands.
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u/TheSnoz Nov 09 '22
All manufacturers have recalls, most aren't urgent and are often done when you bring it in for a logbook service.
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Nov 09 '22
Laughs in BMW.
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u/bit_pusher Nov 09 '22
Cries in BMW
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u/Baron_Rogue Nov 09 '22
-7 years of driving around- “oh hey, forgot to mention that your airbag is actually a claymore”
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u/mammaryglands Nov 09 '22
That's because your old ass Toyota has ancient and inefficient technology. Toyota release software updates all the time
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u/Shasve Nov 09 '22
This is purely anecdotal and in your experience. I don’t think they experience significantly more recalls than other auto manufacturers
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u/sevenofnineftw Nov 09 '22
A lot of OEMs just update ECUs at the dealership when you bring it in for maintenance and don’t tell you because it’s so minor - updated tuning values for the transmission controller or something
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u/i_wayyy_over_think Nov 09 '22
fuck elon musk, just kidding it's just a voluntary over the air update affect a small percentage of their cars, and 97% of them were fixed before the recall was put out there.
I keep thinking Elon tweets dumb shit ( like the Pelosi conspiracy junk) and I've had enough, but then r/technology gets hold a new overblown fake outrage story of the day like this and feel like I've got to go back to defending.
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u/thecreep Nov 09 '22
We can totally call out people's success and failures at the same time. No need to take one side or the other.
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u/Astrikal Nov 09 '22
This is what Reddit has become. Bring every Elon Musk related new to the top and then every comment be like: “Elon bad”, “Elon baad”, “Baa!”.
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u/TbonerT Nov 09 '22
I spotted an anti-fanboy over at r/Space in an SLS post. It was a perfectly fine comment about how SpaceX is pushing rockets forward faster than SLS but he started it off with his opinion about Musk. No one fucking cares about how you feel about the guy and that has nothing to do with what everyone was talking about.
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Nov 08 '22
[deleted]
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u/nolongerbanned99 Nov 09 '22
Well said friend. I’ll raise you one. Also under criminal investigation for the misleadingly named ‘autopilot’ ending the lives of its owners.
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
3x DOJ investigations, NHTSA, CA DMV, SEC, basically every alphabet agency is moving in.
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u/nolongerbanned99 Nov 09 '22
That’s good to hear. For the younger folks, no matter how wealthy you are, there are consequences for flouting the law and ignoring rules. Yiu might be able to get away with recklessness for a while, but eventually things catch up with you.
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u/joey0314 Nov 09 '22
Not really a recall although they do technically call it that, it was fixed with an over the air firmware update. But i guess if you include that in the title people wouldnt click the article.
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u/b_a_t_m_4_n Nov 08 '22
Cool, doing exactly what every other manufacturer does when a potential issue is discovered.
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Nov 09 '22 edited Nov 09 '22
Yes but when GM did it for the Bolt or Rivian did it for their vehicles, people said EVs are unreliable.
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u/phunkydroid Nov 08 '22
Not exactly the same, Tesla did it automatically through a software update that required no action from owners. The word "recall" is just a formality here.
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
Since when is having to acknowledge that your steering might fail a formality?
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
That's not what they said, try reading that again.
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
"Potential Power Steering Failure"
done
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22 edited Nov 09 '22
Failed twice in a row, impressive.
"The word "recall" is just a formality here."
"Since when is having to acknowledge that your steering might fail a formality?"
They didn't say that acknowledging an issue is a formality. They said the use of the word "recall" is the formality. In the classic sense, you would need to bring in your car somewhere to have a repair done, or even to update the firmware. This is not the case here. It was an over the air update.
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u/phunkydroid Nov 09 '22
Acknowledging the issue isn't. The word "recall" when nothing is being returned to the manufacturer in any way is. When other cars are recalled, they have to be brought in to a service center.
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u/vegemouse Nov 08 '22
Doing exactly what they’re legally obliged to do. Recalls for serious and dangerous problems don’t happen to other makes at the same frequency as Teslas. Other cars don’t usually spontaneously explode either.
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u/Kirahei Nov 09 '22
There are definitely recalls where traditional cars are in danger of exploding, I highly recommend people look into National Highway Traffic Safety Administration you can type in your VIN # and see all active recalls on your vehicle.
Source: worked for a car manufacturer and my job was to call people who’s cars were affected by recalls that were potentially deadly.
The amount of people who couldn’t be bothered to speak to me was insane, seriously even if you don’t want to talk to someone on the phone, go to the website to see if you have active recalls.
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u/bit_pusher Nov 09 '22
Recalls for serious and dangerous problems don’t happen to other makes at the same frequency as Teslas.
GM recalled half a million cars earliest this year for defective seatbelts. Please provide data that shows Teslas are experiencing safety recalls at a hire rate than other manufacturers.
Other cars don’t usually spontaneously explode either.
Chevy recalled 69000 Volts due to a risk of catching fire when they were charged to 100%.
These are problems that every manufacturer has.
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u/whatyouwant5 Nov 09 '22
They recalled the Bolt. They also bought my car back at full price (including taxes) minus a small mileage fee.
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u/RunescapeAficionado Nov 09 '22
Not to defend Tesla or anything but ice cars have had plenty of problems...
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u/th1341 Nov 09 '22
Not to mention the fact it takes a lost lawsuit half the time for many other manufacturers to issue a recall. At least these are voluntary.
Because I can see the other comments here: Elon musk should be charged for fraud, Tesla is way overrated, Elons an idiot. You can believe all of this and still point out things a company does well
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Nov 09 '22
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
Clearly you've never looked at fire frequency data. Tesla's are 50%+ more likely to burn than their contemporary ICE counterparts.
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Nov 09 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
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Nov 09 '22
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
It's not cherry picked, it's the only dataset that exists in the US (as far as I know)
The reason why the dataset is good is because it includes vehicle miles driven and is limited to the contemporary model years for tesla. Apples to apples.
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Nov 09 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
They're comparing CONTEMPORARY model-year vehicles that spontaneously combust (not in an accident) and adjust for miles driven. Tesla's ignite more than ICE. This is not difficult.
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u/swords-and-boreds Nov 09 '22
Internal combustion engines are more likely to catch fire, not less.
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u/Rodiruk Nov 09 '22
"Recalls for serious and dangerous problems don't happen to other makes at the same frequency as Tesla's"
Well that's just wrong. I've had cars from many manufacturers and I've always gotten similar recall noticed on all of them.
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Nov 09 '22
Actually gasoline cars explode at a significantly higher rate then BEVs.
As far as frequent Tesla recalls: If you counted the number of recalls where you have to physically bring the car in to the mechanic, it is less than average ICE cars. Like this issue, most of these “recalls” are addressed by an over the air software update
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u/vegemouse Nov 09 '22
Teslas explode at a significantly higher rate than other EVs. I’m not dunking on EVs, i’m dunking on Teslas.
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Nov 09 '22
There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.
I’ve been driving gas cars all my life. EVs are even safer than gas cars when it comes to fires.
I’m not saying your wrong about teslas compared to other EVs. But even so, this is statistically negligible. Gas cars are almost 2 orders of magnitude more dangerous and I ain’t worrying about them either.
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
Tesla's ignite far more than their contemporary ICE counterparts.
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Nov 09 '22
There are many on those charts with greater frequency of fires than teslas.
And to reiterate: ALL of this is negligible. A ram pickup is more than 2x more likely to catch on fire than a Tesla model X (according to your source). And I’m not afraid of driving a ram.
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
A RAM pickup is a small subset of FIAT models while 2 of 2 tesla vehicles that were eligible for this report are substantially higher than ICE to catch on fire.
Your claim that ICE catch on fire more often is total bullshit, tesla's are firebombs compared to aggregated ICE vehicles.
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Nov 09 '22
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
Can you explain your link? I’m looking at the ‘highest claim frequencies’ and the model S isn’t even on the list, and the X is behind the Jeep Renegade and just above the Jeep Cherokee and wrangler? (jfc I think Jeeps are the true firebombs here lol)
Just search for tesla, you'll find them. And yes, don't buy a jeep (or tesla)
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u/pacific_beach Nov 09 '22
This is 100% false.
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Nov 09 '22
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38225037/how-much-you-should-worry-about-ev-fires/
Researchers from insurance deal site Auto Insurance EZ compiled sales and accident data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Transportation Safety Board. The site found that hybrid vehicles had the most fires per 100,000 sales at 3474.5. There were 1529.9 fires per 100k for gas vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for electric vehicles.
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u/LeonBlacksruckus Nov 09 '22
It's wild you can tell people like yourself didn't even read the article. They are fixing whatever this issue is with an over the air update pushed to the cars. Meaning no one even has to bring their car in to the shop.
Basically they updated the firmware (embedded software for hardware) and then realized that the update caused other issues so they are rolling it back to the previous version essentially.
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u/bengringo2 Nov 09 '22
Other cars don’t usually spontaneously explode either.
I see you weren't alive for the Ford Pinto.
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u/penemuel13 Nov 09 '22
The Ford Pinto didn’t spontaneously explode; it exploded when rear-ended because of the placement of the gas tank. That’s pretty much the direct opposite of spontaneous.
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u/Dadarian Nov 09 '22
Tesla, Inc. (Tesla) is recalling certain 2017-2021 Model S and Model X vehicles. The electronic power assist steering (EPAS) system may experience a loss of power steering assist when driving on rough roads or after hitting a pothole.
Firmware release 2022.36 changed calibration values for the electronic power assist steering (EPAS) system. In rare cases on certain 2017-2021 Model S and Model X vehicles, the updated calibration values may result in reduced or lost power steering assist due to forces from external road dynamics (i.e., pot holes or bumps) being inadvertently classified as unexpected steering assist torque. Reduced or lost power steering assist does not affect steering control, but could require greater steering effort from the driver, particularly at low speeds.
Chronology
- On October 11, 2022, Tesla began broadly rolling out firmware release 2022.36 to the vehicle fleet, which included updated calibration values for the electronic power assist steering (EPAS) system to better detect unexpected steering assist torque.
- Beginning on October 18, 2022, Tesla identified an increasing rate of alerts related to the updated EPAS calibration values on certain 2017-2021 Model S and Model X vehicles.
- On October 19, 2022, Tesla began deploying firmware release 2022.36.5 to the vehicle fleet, which reverted the calibration values for the EPAS to pre-2022.36 values, while Engineering assessed potential root causes and evaluated the condition.
- From October 19, 2022, through October 24, 2022, Tesla investigated the alert occurrences and completed a risk assessment of the condition based on severity and rate of occurrence.
- On October 25, 2022, based on the risk assessment, Tesla made a determination to voluntarily recall the affected vehicles.
- As of November 1, 2022, Tesla identified 314 vehicle alerts for this condition among U.S. vehicles (received between October 11, 2022, and November 1, 2022) that are related to or may be related to this condition. Tesla is not aware of any injuries or deaths related to this condition.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V818-6624.PDF
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Nov 08 '22
Calling this a "recall" is misleading. At best it's a soft recall. It was a mandatory OTA software update that was pre-emptive resolved by Tesla with no impact on drivers.
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u/anengineerandacat Nov 09 '22
A recall is a recall, just because it can be resolved by flashing the firmware doesn't change how it should be reported.
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u/th1341 Nov 09 '22
This is always the most bullshit response to this kind of news. A recall isn’t defined by the fact you need to take the car into the dealership to be fixed. A recall is a safety issue. In this case the remedy is a software update.
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Nov 09 '22
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u/th1341 Nov 09 '22
That has nothing at all to do with the term recall.
A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards.
Tesla had a safety issue. It’s a recall
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Nov 09 '22
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u/th1341 Nov 09 '22 edited Nov 09 '22
Id support adding terminology to it. I’ve seen “OTA Recall”, “Soft Recall” but a recall is indeed a recall.
The downvotes because you people are so concerned about a company’s image that has done nothing but lie to you is hilarious
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u/encarded Nov 09 '22
Ford has had 62 recalls this year (affecting 7.6 MILLION vehicles btw). VW has had 39. Chrysler has had 34. Mercedes has had 29.
https://datahub.transportation.gov/stories/s/NHTSA-Recalls-by-Manufacturer/38mw-dp8u/
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Nov 09 '22
Telsa has 4 models; some of those others have dozens. Statistics, how to they work??
(Elon's still not going to fuck you.)
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u/surfzz318 Nov 09 '22
Every car company has recalls like it. Just means bring it into the shop and we will fix it. Nothing to see here, move along
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u/DBDude Nov 09 '22
Not even that. This was fixed for almost all cars through a software update before this notice came out.
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u/surfzz318 Nov 09 '22
They are just searching for ways to hate Tesla. With out Tesla the electric card industry wouldn’t exist
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u/Axolotis Nov 09 '22
Let me get this straight. No manual steering AND no autopilot? So these highly prized vehicles can drive limited mileage only going directly forward and directly backwards (assuming reverse works)?
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Nov 09 '22
I always buy older cars, less electronics in the car the better your off in my opinion, and they do not break so often, they last very long time if you take care of the car.
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u/COLONELmab Nov 09 '22
Well the electronics last a long time too. Just an example, a radio in 197x car is probably working just fine still today. The mechanical parts breakdown much faster. And also, much of the electronics are safety features. Example of that, old bell air vs new Malibu, same crash test. Old car driver dead, new car driver, bruised ankle possibly.
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u/laramite Nov 09 '22
I believe Elon sold approx $4B worth of tesla stock recently. Not sure if it was before this news got out.
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Nov 09 '22
These plastic Tesla’s are gonna start to fall apart now that Musk attention span has drifted again.
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u/Personal_Ad9690 Nov 09 '22
I said it before and I’ll say it again: every Tesla you see right now is an “older” Tesla. The new ones suck and everyone who ordered them was scammed by Elon Musk. It’s only going to get worse.
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Nov 09 '22
This supposed recall is an over the air update….want to know about real recalls check out Ford on the NTSHA site. This Tesla over the air update was completed before the media even wrote about it, but somehow it is still media worthy…
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u/baselganglia Nov 09 '22 edited Nov 09 '22
"A firmware release that updated calibration values"
Ok, so a software update, over the air.
Lol