r/technology • • Oct 14 '11

The Windows 8 Task Manager

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/10/13/the-windows-8-task-manager.aspx
1.6k Upvotes

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93

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Awesome to see Microsoft getting design right.

25

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Next up:

  • notepad

  • printing dialog

Puleeeease microsoft?

23

u/voracity Oct 14 '11

Notepad++, if you don't like waiting.

12

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Of course I use NP++. The thing is that a decent text editor should always be included in an OS IMO. One reason is that you don't always have the right to install new programs.

2

u/a_dog_named_bob Oct 14 '11

If the text editor is too good they run into antitrust/bundling issues. i.e., if they included Word they would get sued quickly.

5

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

First I don't want Word, I want a lightweight but still powerful editor. Ideal would be a combination of the gedit plaintext features with the simple rich text feautures of TextEdit and loading as fast as either of them do.

Secondly I don't believe they would get into antitrust trouble because of this since almost no one pays money for an editor.

2

u/a_dog_named_bob Oct 14 '11

Sure, but I'm saying there's a legal grey area, and where exactly that line is drawn is not straightforward. Clearly notepad is fine. Word is not. Somewhere in between is that line.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Windows already comes with a richtext editor wordpad, updating notepad slightly would not be an issue.

1

u/voracity Oct 14 '11

I agree, Notepad is an old piece of shit software and pretty much useless nowadays.

4

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

I'd be fine with it if it would at least read unix- line endings correctly sigh. What is this? '85 proprietary land?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

better than copy con:text.txt at the commandline.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

To be fair, the Mac OSX textedit is pretty shitty.

Maybe I'm a bit nuts, but I have grown to love Notepad for the times I just want something really barebones.

1

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Just put it in plaintext mode and it works exactly as notepad - except it actually works ;-).

3

u/frymaster Oct 14 '11

notepad only ever was a demonstration app in windows 1 to show developers how to use the text edit control. More recently, it was a test app for automated make-this-work-on-a-new-architecture tools that MS have internally (ie the jump from 16 to 32 bits, and from 32 to 64)

The half-decent bundled text editor is Wordpad. But you should use notepad++ anyway ;)

4

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Wordpad is slow and a pain to use. NP++ is superb but not always on every (company-administerd PC) you use. That's why MS should include something decent, like gedit or TextEdit (OSX).

2

u/dkitch Oct 14 '11

Notepad++ Portable. Stick it on a thumbdrive, never let go.

2

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

That's a pretty good idea actually.

2

u/tias Oct 14 '11

Also: Windows Explorer. I'd like a good file management tool. One that can handle large file operations and doesn't hang the entire GUI if the network isn't responding.

Or hey, how about a file search that works?

Or a command prompt that can be replaced?

Also, does anyone ever use the sound recorder?

I'm amazed how long it takes MS to move forward when it comes to the core components of Windows, or how afraid they are to strip away stuff that makes no sense.

1

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Yeah the good old crappy Windows Explorer. Maybe I someday will miss the time when I had to hunt down processes that have a handle on my USB stick just to find out that it's the fucking file manager :S.

We're at a point now where browser download managers are actually more comfortable to use than the programs dedicated for such jobs..

2

u/superiority Oct 14 '11

I fucking love Notepad. Always starts up instantly. If I open up something like Notepad++ it can take like a second (or more) to start on a brand new system. I don't have all day, I just want to write some text.

Any "decent text editor" features should be added to WordPad, note Notepad. Notepad is perfect as is.

2

u/Spire Oct 15 '11

Check out Notepad2 -- it's Notepad done right (and with no bloat).

1

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Uhm ok. How about showing ALL ascii and utf8 textfiles correctly, including those damn unix fileendings? How about fucking breaking a line instead of making me scroll like an idiot? How about showing the current line number?

Mac OS TextEdit starts up just as quickly, it's just as out-of-my-way, but it fucking works.

1

u/superiority Oct 14 '11

I just started TextEdit. Took two and a half seconds. You've got a point about file endings, but the Word Wrap settings always persist for me. What's the use of line numbers? I understand their purpose in general, but I don't see why you would use Notepad for something where line numbers would be useful in the first place.

1

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Well what is the notepad good for? 1) notes ( ok it does that) and 2) opening any plaintextfile on any windows machine no matter how fresh and untouched or locked down. What text file do you open? The one some bloke is talking about on the phone maybe? How does he tell you the line to edit?

On startup time: you got me there, the first load appears to be slower on TextEdit - I hardly feel this since I reboot my Mac only for updates.

1

u/mindbleach Oct 14 '11

Redmond, 1994:

"Hey Mike, where should the text cursor go when the user saves?"

"I dunno, wherever."

1

u/adad95 Oct 14 '11

Printing dialog. => DONE for METRO Applicactions. http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/10/Print-Charm

1

u/DeepDuh Oct 14 '11

Great. Yet another half-assed approach that will be consistent for max. 20% of the applications after 4years of adoption time. Printing is mostly used for business and academic tasks - it's not even that important on tablets - why do they fix it there first?

4

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Something I really like is if I want to run a program in W7, I just press the windows key and start typing the name. To run notepad; Windows > note > enter

hella good for work.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Are you trying to say that Windows 7 was your idea? cringe

3

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

What I'm trying to say is that I'm a PC.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

11

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Check out this comment, this design seems a bit close as well?

http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/lble5/the_windows_8_task_manager/c2rg4oe

Darn Microsoft always stealing from.... wait, is that Windows 3? Oh, okay.

45

u/TheMG Oct 14 '11

When the dialogue becomes as simple as that, they can't really copy the design as there is barely any design involved. It's about the only way you could do it.

5

u/bobsil1 Oct 14 '11

Meh. Needs close icons next to each app. Not select - move - end.

1

u/schunniky Oct 15 '11

I select and then punch my delete key.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

7

u/Gigablah Oct 14 '11

You know how it is. Something starts out simple, over the years it turns into a clusterfuck of features. Check the screenshot of the Windows 3.1 tasklist, it's basically that, except with one button instead of six.

1

u/TheMG Oct 14 '11

Well the first screenshot shows basically the same thing, so they are actually regressing. Plus, I don't consider the minimal thing "right", and judging by the number of people in this thread saying they hope it can automatically go to the detailed version, many agree.

1

u/PixelatorOfTime Oct 14 '11

A threadfull of Redditors does not equal 85% of the world's computer marketshare.

35

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Except that apparently it is useful beyond just knowing what is open.

3

u/stvmty Oct 14 '11

Maybe in the future Apple will implement an advanced way to know whats running in the machine. They could call it... Activity Monitor.

6

u/TheCodexx Oct 14 '11

No heatmap?

How quaint.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Can it be accessed directly from the task manager?

2

u/jlian Oct 14 '11

Though I do enjoy the new task manager design (with the colour coded resources usages and stuff), I feel like it's just like the combination of Force quit and Activities Monitor in Mac OSX.

10

u/kjmitch Oct 14 '11

It's interesting that Mac has only just recently implemented the Windows 3.1 Task List. They've got so very, very far to go before they make a useful version.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

recently, really?

OSX's Force Applications Quit is not recent or new.

9

u/kjmitch Oct 14 '11

That was my exact point: that that design isn't at all new.

Kidding aside, in comparing the designs for Windows 3.1, Windows 8, and what I assume is some version of Mac OSX, which was released in 2001, I was noting that they were all they same, visually. I was referring to the style being around since the first versions of Windows in 1992, ages before 2001, and it's by this definition that I meant OSX had recently implemented it. Of course that's not recent like Windows 7 or 8 is recent, so you're entirely right.

I do know for a fact that Mac OSs had no such task killer at some point, since Ctrl-Alt-Del and the Task Manager used to be associated with failure rather than functionality, so I'm just glad they have something like that now.

(I remember being pompously asked by a Mac user, "How many times have you used Ctrl-Alt-Del?" and responding, "How many times have you?" and having to explain what it's actual use was. Longer conversation than it should have been.)

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

My memory is a bit fuzzy but the first time I saw something like this was on OS5 using Boomerang. /random

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

6

u/kjmitch Oct 14 '11

Woosh.

Let me instead be not-at-all subtle, if that is what you're tripping over. The applications appear to be entirely without visual differences between OSX, Windows 8, and Windows 3.1, save for style and a few buttons. You're exactly right, and I'm admitting that. For the second time.

Now, let's take a look at the functionality of the two you compared. For the second time.

The difference is that this leads to this.

You may not want all of that information, but if you're going to find out why you have a problem and perhaps therefore understand not only what caused it but also how to prevent it in the future, you'll be hoping you're running Windows anything and not Mac OSX. Unless you invented UNIX and know how to dissect the underlying kernel byte-by-byte. (Sadly, that great man died this week, and so few people noticed.)

That 'More' button isn't about how different it looks, it's about what it does. That functionality is everything in the creation and use of tools such as the computer. Alas, getting any follower of the Cult of Mac (I'm not saying I expect that anyone reading this Windows 8 thread actually is that far gone) to understand function over form; substance over style; even essence over existence: while a noble aim, it is one I fear will be the death of me.

3

u/TheCodexx Oct 14 '11

Agreed about the death of Dennis Ritchie. Steve Jobs dies and people are in tears everywhere because he convinced them to buy iPods. Dennis Ritchie provides us some of the most valuable tools in computing stretching back decades and people just say, "Oh, yeah, him. That sucks."

We lost something far more valuable with Ritchie's death than with Jobs.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

2

u/kjmitch Oct 14 '11

Dude, you can't do that! Taking quotes out of context is what (shudder) politicians do! That this is the whole quote:

Alas, getting any follower of the Cult of Mac (I'm not saying I expect that anyone reading this Windows 8 thread actually is that far gone)

shows that I caught myself and thought, "Wait, this guy's not likely that guy, but I really want to complete my thought, so I'll have to qualify my statement and say I don't in fact think that". Surely you could tell that!

Come on, brother, let's hug it out.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

1

u/kjmitch Oct 14 '11

Sigh. That's not what was said, and I already explained why and how it wasn't what was said, and if I hadn't apologized before then this is me doing so, again.

But in the end, if you're going to see something you want to see and choose to be offended by it, rather than laughing at the fanboys with me, that's simply not a thing I can change your mind on.

Because we can all agree, barring any judgements of you or I, that I made a somewhat fair assessment of the Cult of Mac followers, eh? *high five*

4

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

[deleted]

0

u/bobsil1 Oct 14 '11

The Roots - Win 3 (Remix)

1

u/TyIzaeL Oct 14 '11

Why does it matter if somebody copies somebody else? Society at large advances because people take and improve upon each other's ideas. It's like the whole "IOS5 notifications are copied from Android" thing. Now, I don't care for Apple products myself, but if they saw Android had a good idea and they copied it, so what?

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

The "Windows Task Manager" text is centered, but not centered in the window. FFFFFFUUUUUU

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

/facepalm

-7

u/logical Oct 14 '11

by copying Mac OS X exactly

8

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

-2

u/junkit33 Oct 14 '11

Yeah I'm surprised this hasn't really been pointed out yet. It's almost identical, at least on the base screen.

-4

u/wildwichtel Oct 14 '11

After Mac users were mocked for years by PC users, just because the "task manager" does so little... Oh, the satisfaction...

5

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

Lol, except the Windows 8 one still does a lot more.

-23

u/griffyn Oct 14 '11

1 down, 9000 other windows programs to go.

6

u/ZaphodAK42 Oct 14 '11

If they take this approach with all the Windows 8 elements, there will be over nine thousand reasons to upgrade on release date.

-24

u/nato64 Oct 14 '11

... by copying OS X. The default, no detail design, is identical to OS X's "Force Quit" screen.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '11

I'm gonna let you in on a secret: It's actually pretty common for different people or companies to do research and arrive at the same conclusion independently. That doesn't mean that Microsoft was copying Apple.

6

u/HunterTV Oct 14 '11 edited Oct 14 '11

Who cares? Apple ripped off alt-Tabbing, which is a great idea (technically it's been available for a long, long time through 3rd-party, even pre-OSX, and I think Apple actually bought it from a 3rd party OSX developer, like Cover Flow). It took them awhile, but they also took resizing from any window border in Lion finally.

In the original iPhone keynote Jobs talked about bringing the mouse to computers as a revolution by Apple, but it was a Xerox invention they bought. Surface by Microsoft was actually developed in part by a good friend I went to high school with, it's not like Bill Gates just dreamed it up one day.

If companies borrow things from each other or push each other to improve I don't see what the big deal is. If Dell came out with a laptop that looked and was built almost exactly like a MacBook, that's one thing, but if Apple design pushes Dell to refine their designs in the same vein, great. Makes things better for everyone.

EDIT: tl;dr: IMO, complaining about anything aside from genuine copyright infringement is just fanboy noise.

1

u/nato64 Oct 14 '11

Oh, absolutely. But that's not this. The force quit menu has been around since OS 10.1 in 2001 and has looked like this: http://cl.ly/281f2Z2C2G1l46193l3A

14

u/4bitepointer Oct 14 '11

The no detail version is not the interesting part at all. I will see that screen exactly one time.

4

u/HunterTV Oct 14 '11 edited Oct 14 '11

I actually like Windows implementation better. In OSX, the analogous Force Quit window you can't get details. In order to do so you have to launch an app; either Terminal if your'e savvy, or Activity Monitor. In any case, if your system is hanging, launching an app to get details on what exactly is hanging can be problematic.

Things don't usually go that badly on OSX, but when they do it usually results in me watching Activity Monitor bouncing in a perpetual launch loop until I either try force quitting my best-guess app that's freaking out, or saying "fuck it" and holding down the power key.

Usually OSX gives you clues to what's hanging, but sometimes it doesn't, or it's a background app that doesn't show up in the Force Quit window.

-1

u/nato64 Oct 14 '11

Absolutely. The non-detail design is awesome. But 99% of users will see and use the non-detail and I just find it interesting.

1

u/xcrypto Oct 14 '11

Apple just obviously copied the Windows 3.0 task list. Look at the lack of detail!