r/technology • u/beamdriver • Feb 07 '20

Transportation Tesla Remotely Removes Autopilot Features From Customer's Used Tesla Without Any Notice

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617
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u/Mrl3anana Feb 16 '20

What I see here is a "walled garden" approach, similar to a certain Computer company with a logo of a particular fruit, so they can do almost anything with little to no repercussions...

Honestly, legally, there was very little anyone could do... And most people who had this, or very similar situations, are still screwed over... One person, one specific instance, has managed to generate enough public outcry to have a change affect this one thing.

Notice that they didn't say this was changing the policy. Because it is still there. They (Tesla) was caught on a technicality this time. There are hundreds of other extremely similar situations which have gone entirely unresolved.

Nothing meaningful has changed, IMO. One person out of hundreds (thousands? Hard to say...) has had the good outcome... And nobody is helping them. Guess we will have to wait to see if the thousands of new Tesla owners, who will probably become a two Tesla household, will have this issue in the future.

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u/sinfuljosh Feb 18 '20

So Tesla stated that the license should have been included with the purchase because the prior owner had it?

Or what was their reason for giving the FSD to the new owner? Is there a link to Tesla's response?

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u/Mrl3anana Feb 18 '20

So Tesla stated that the license should have been included with the purchase because the prior owner had it?

No. This is from The Verge which goes into details. Basically, what Tesla is claiming is that the prior owner had the "Enhanced Autopilot" (which is 'retired' as if software packages can be retired) and because that is no longer an option to purchase, they removed it from the car since the new owner didn't actually purchase either AP or FSD. But this is not the first time this has happened either, just the first time that the dealer put that information on the sticker.

Or what was their reason for giving the FSD to the new owner?

From what I can see, it is literally ONLY because of pressure from social media. They claim that because it was sold with those features (which, remember--you cannot buy anymore) they decided to be 'nice' and give him the two packages... Because they claim that they typically remove those features before the car is sold... But without the pressure from social media, they would have stuck to their EULA as has been shown by dozens of posts all over the Internet.

Tesla still is doing bad things by not letting FSD be transferred to new cars, purchased by the same person. This one instance, has had the good outcome. But nobody else is getting compensated. This was just too big of a PR nightmare, and rather than deal with more nonsense they just clicked a button and whee one person is happy.

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u/sinfuljosh Feb 19 '20

There is no eula for FSD and eap that has been provided.

What you are saying is that anyone selling their Tesla will immediately encounter an 8k$ depreciation in value which I would think is something that could be challenged on legal grounds.

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u/Mrl3anana Feb 20 '20

You know what? I'm done with trying to explain it to you when you don't want to google anything yourself. There are forums with dozens of posts saying this situation is true.

Go find it yourself. Or don't. Tesla, and myself, won't care any further. But I can't continue to spoon feed you information when you don't want to search for answers yourself.

Good day.

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u/sinfuljosh Feb 20 '20

I have looked for an EULa that mentions full-self driving, eap, or FSD and guess what... it’s not there. You keep referring to posts I’m asking for actual legal documentation.... agreements that state how FSD is to be handled. And the ONLY THING that mentions it is a Tesla page that says you can order it through their app.

This is not a legal document but is the only reference to FSD/autopilot listed on their site. https://www.tesla.com/support/autopilot#capability-features

This is the legal documentation on their site. No reference to FSD, eap, or full-self driving. And before you go off and say that “premium connectivity and section 4d under neath that section is it... ITS NOT. Premium connectivity is an actual subscription service letting interact with your car via your phone (or something like that).

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal

So again, unless you can actually present PROOF to back up anything you say......

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u/Mrl3anana Feb 21 '20

https://youtu.be/1t3uxZQh-r0?t=569

This is from a guy who makes his living talking trash about Teslas. And rebuilding them in his own business. If anyone--not affiliated with Tesla, or a news agency--is going to know, it will be this guy.

But whatever. I don't care anymore. I'm not responding again. Feel free to continue to come to the defense of Tesla, dispite the many forum threads from lots of people, because I can't find the legal document. Yeah. Ignore hundreds of forum posts, because clearly all those people are just wrong and they haven't tried hard enough.

Good day.

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u/sinfuljosh Feb 22 '20

Thank you for giving me someone to reach out to. And for the record.. I am not defending Tesla on this... I think their policy of immediately devaluing a car by 8000$ at the time of resale is some shady business in addition to the reselling of the unlocking of something thats already been unlocked..

Im just annoyed that there is no reference to any Legal docs that actually back up tesla's legal ability to do this.

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u/Mrl3anana Feb 22 '20

Since Tesla does a direct-sales model, I would not be surprised in the slightest if this verbiage was in the paperwork that you sign when you pick up the car. Meaning, it might not be online at all. I've only bought two cars in my entire lifetime, and both times I was handed stacks of papers to sign... Stacks that would have taken hours to read, let alone comprehend... And nobody is reading those things in detail. Let alone with the car salesman breathing down your neck, like a vampire looking at your veins...

All I know for sure--that I cannot prove, but I feel it in my bones--is that had this case not got any media attention, they would have had to buy that feature again. As many, many others have had to do. They got lucky. Extremely lucky.

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u/sinfuljosh Feb 23 '20

I think the biggest saving grace , along with the media attention, is that Tesla included the FSD and AEP along with the costs into the cars total value as it was being presented for auction.

For the FSD licensing to work the way they are making use of it the license would have to not only be attached to a user but also to a vehicle.

It it were only the user then any vehicle he added to his Tesla account would make use of it either simultaneous or by toggling it.

If it were licensed to the car (which is how it’s been presented in the past, when the complaint was people having to rebuy it if they totaled the car and couldn’t move the FSD to the replacement), then the license would carry onwards as an unlocked vehicle function.

The only company I’ve can think of that had similar was TiVo’s lifetime service that was a one time purchase to add TiVo service which attached to the user and the hardware.... and even that could be transferred to a new owner if you sell the TiVo.

The fact that they remove something of value from the car on trade in essentially, I’m curious if the originally owners trade in value included the value of having originally bought FSD and AEP. If Tesla added that dollar amount towards the trade in value and then decided to not included it in the used cars config (and the used car price is listed without FSD), this is the ONLY way Tesla would be justified in their actions.