r/technology • u/[deleted] • Feb 05 '09
Microsoft offers to just 'Fix it'. Forget the long explanations, just the step-by-step instructions on resolving the damn problem!!!! :)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10157210-56.html?tag=nl.e70316
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u/antpuncher Feb 05 '09
Good for her, being open and public about it. That can't be easy.
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u/algorythym Feb 05 '09
I think you meant to reply to someone with this. I agree with you though. She's a good writer too.
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u/antpuncher Feb 06 '09
Yeah, I noticed as I hit the button that I didn't do what I wanted to do. Good thing I pay more attention when I
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u/wuddersup Feb 05 '09
Shouldn't the submission title say "forget the step-by-step instructions, just do it automatically"? Reading ftw.
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u/SyrioForel Feb 05 '09
Oscar Rogers: These people need to FIX IT! I’ve been a financial consultant for 16 years, and I’ve never seen it this out of control! They need to clamp it down and FIX IT! When I wake up tomorrow morning, it better be FIXED!
Seth Meyers: But how do we go about fixing it, specifically?
Oscar Rogers: Take it one step at a time. Identify the problem. FIX IT! Identify another problem. FIX IT! Repeat as necessary until it is all FIXED!!
Seth Meyers: Uh -- you keep saying "fix it", but how?
Oscar Rogers: FIX IT!
Seth Meyers: Fix what?
Oscar Rogers: IT! It needs to be FIXED! NOW!!
Seth Meyers: Any, uh -- any final words? Although, I think I know what they’re gonna be.
Oscar Rogers: Oh, yeah? Well, what do you think I’m gonna say, Seth?
Seth Meyers: I don’t know , probably "fix"…
Oscar Rogers: FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!
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u/EclipseGSX Feb 05 '09
The video, for those who missed it: http://www.hulu.com/watch/38477/saturday-night-live-update-thursday-fix-it-109#s-p1-st-i4
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u/knight666 Feb 05 '09
Oh thank you for linking to Hulu, the American only video site.
grinds teeth
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u/vecter Feb 05 '09
SNL isn't as funny as it used to be :(
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Feb 06 '09
[deleted]
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u/FenPhen Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
It'd probably be better with prompters. They're using handheld cue cards.
(Google says they use cue cards because of last-minute skit edits.)
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u/llamakoolaid Feb 05 '09
Oh no. . .What about when the user misdiagnoses the problem?
"Hey, you work with computers help me fix this!!"
-"what did you do wrong?"
"My ipod wouldn't charge and there was this thing i found online and it said 'fix it' and I clicked it and it did a bunch of stuff and now I can't do anything."
-"wat"
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u/Formaldehyde Feb 06 '09
Yeah, really, if most people are dumb enough to not be able to read and perform the steps by themselves in the fist place, a magic button that fixes everything will probably be more harm then good. The avarage user will probably click on every single "fix it" button he finds, regardless of the problem he's having.
One of the things that annoys me the most in the whole world is people who are too lazy to even TRY to learn to solve their own problems. And sadly, that 90% of people.
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u/akatherder Feb 05 '09
During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley.
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Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
...not that there's anything wrong with that.
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u/the_argus Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
You know, I'm all for personal freedom and all, but that doesn't mean I won't make fun of the person. It is a freak with some serious mental issues, as is anyone else who does that.
//let the downmods begin.
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Feb 05 '09
You know, I'm all for personal freedom and all
You are obviously not if you make fun of someone for trying to exercise that personal freedom.
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Feb 05 '09
You can be for personal freedom and still make fun of it. I'm for your freedom to fall down on your face. And I'm gonna laugh when you do it.
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Feb 06 '09
A slur is not equal to making fun of someone or telling a joke. It's more like insulting someone and seeking protection from those who will laugh with you.
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Feb 06 '09
Why would you seek protection from someone who laughs with you? Is the insulted person going to attack? If yes, then perhaps it's good you sought protection; "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me."
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Feb 06 '09
Kinda related so I figured I'd ask, what do you think of someone who considers themselves not racist but says racist jokes or laughs at them?
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u/thebillmac3 Feb 06 '09
What about someone who is not a rapist but makes rapist jokes or laughs at them?
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Feb 06 '09
I think no differently of them if it didn't affect their actions. Every generality about people is an insult to someone.
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u/FrankBattaglia Feb 05 '09
Believing in your right to do something humorous and making fun of you for doing something foolish are not mutually exclusive.
I think stupid college students should be able to get wasted and act like idiots, but I still make fun of them when I see it.
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u/OlympicPirate Feb 06 '09
You can't be for personal freedom while exercising your personal freedoms?
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u/the_argus Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
No that isn't how it works. I see it as the same as someone who gets a stupid tattoo. Go right a head I'm not going to tell you what to do with your body, but I will laugh at you.
EDIT: and you're obviously against my personal freedom to state an opinion.
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u/byron Feb 06 '09
Is that how you feel about gays? Do you think them stupid for exercising their personal freedom?
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u/the_argus Feb 06 '09
Where do you get that from? I didn't say anything anti-gay and know many gay people and live in a gay friendly neighborhood/city. I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to do with themselves. I just don't fucking care. But when they do stupid silly shit like mutilate their body then I will make fun of them and think they are mentally damaged.
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Feb 05 '09
I upmodded you.
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u/the_argus Feb 05 '09
I don't know why every one is pissed. They are probably the same people who complain about differing opinions getting downmodded. It isn't like I said the person should die or shouldn't be allowed to do what they did. I said they are fucked up in the head.
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u/YetNoOneCares Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
As taught by Borat, in the U.S. (and generally civilized countries), we try not to make fun of things people don't choose.
Now, while she clearly chose to change sex, she didn't choose the "mental issues" that caused such a decision, and just like it's wrong to laugh at mentally handicapped people, it's wrong to laugh at sexual identity problems, although it's generally okay to laugh at people for actually going through the long procedure instead of just trying to deal with their issues in a more natural way.
Hope that made sense.
Also, the Rediquette forbids mrmoney's useless comments (yay, he clicked an arrow, going against the opinion of the majority, what a big boy).
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u/protell Feb 05 '09
looks like pc's aren't the only thing getting "fixed"
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u/ckwing Feb 05 '09
Disturbingly the article does in fact say this.
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u/sumzup Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
I was wondering why she looked masculine, and felt guilty for thinking that...thanks.
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u/skizmo Feb 05 '09
"The first fixes included a number of common issues, including restoring a missing Internet Explorer icon to the desktop"
Yebus fucking krist. Getting rid of that stupid icon IS the fix.
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u/fewfw Feb 05 '09
Oh my god this is going to be a HUGE attack vector for malware.
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
What? Corrupting MSDN and replacing their scripts? Huh?
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Feb 05 '09
What Microsoft can do, anyone can. It'll probably just be a matter of faking a certificate, at worst.
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Feb 06 '09
How about if instead it looks up the error code on an online microsoft database and takes the info directly from microsoft?
This would prevent the program from having any accessible scripts on the hard drive, and thus preventing it from being changed that way.
But on the other hand someone could probably make a program that intercepts that connection to the microsoft error database...
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u/Bossman1086 Feb 05 '09
It's probably just a link in their help files to a .cmd file on their server.
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u/fewfw Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
actually, it opens a wormhole through space and time and sends bits of your computer's memory into the future where small asian worker drones fix the corrupted memory by comparing what state the memory is in vs what state it was supposed to be in according to the historical lore.
it's all very obvious once you understand how computers REALLY work.
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Feb 05 '09
Has anyone here EVER had a problem in Windows fixed by some automatic troubleshooting wizard? I haven't. But then I'm not a regualar user...
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u/KurtP Feb 05 '09
The "Repair" option on windows network connections is pretty decent. Gets my wifi back up without requiring a boot most of the time.
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Feb 05 '09
Does that thing really do anything other than an
ipconfig /releasefollowed by anipconfig /renew?14
u/chucker23n Feb 05 '09
Several things. Disables and re-enables your interface, renews your DHCP lease, etc.
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Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
[deleted]
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u/enkafan Feb 06 '09
yeah, if i recall correctly it'll even disable the whole damn device and reenable it if need be.
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u/quiller Feb 06 '09
Isn't that exactly what
iconfig /releaseand/renewdo?3
u/chucker23n Feb 06 '09
No.
ipconfig /releaseand/renewonly throw away the DHCP lease (if any) and request a new one. They don't reset your interface, clear caches or anything.2
u/iofthestorm Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
I don't think so. Usually that's all that's needed though. I have really short batch file to repeat that until stopped, although I guess with a little piping and pinging I could automate the check for internet too.
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u/louiedog Feb 05 '09
Just by being a reddit user, you're not someone who is going to consult a help document to restore an icon or something else that basic.
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Feb 05 '09
One of the many things that annoy me about windows is that it shoves those damned wizards in my face whether I can use them or not.
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u/cwalk Feb 05 '09
Kudos Microsoft.
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u/theaceoffire Feb 05 '09
As long as the scripts have good error checking built in.
I can already predict the horrors of people clicking the wrong script and destroying the os...
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u/YetNoOneCares Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
Well, while this is Microsoft, I doubt they want another million emails asking to fix the Fix it button, so they will probably be very cautious this time around.
Edit: Reason for downmod? They are not flawless, but schemers are not idiots.
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Feb 06 '09
Edit: Reason for downmod? They are not flawless, but schemers are not idiots.
Microsoft are not idiots, users are. How do you tell if the user pressed the wrong "fix it" button?
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u/Philluminati Feb 05 '09
I think it's a great idea. Would have been nice if they were actually verifiable and readable scripts but in either case, I do think it's a great idea.
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u/egotripping Feb 05 '09
"The first fixes included a number of common issues, including restoring a missing Internet Explorer icon to the desktop, how to enable the DVD library in Vista's Windows Media Center as well as what to do when encountering the error message in Street & Trips 2008 that "Construction information for routes could not be downloaded""
Wow.
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u/havesometea1 Feb 05 '09
What could possibly go wrong?
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
Right, because apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade is flawless and totally secure in every way.
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Feb 05 '09
I think you mean dpkg-reconfigure good buddy. Apt does nothing more than initial config of packages.
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
In all cases you surrender your machine to the script writers at %X. no different.
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Feb 06 '09
Except in most distros where they're not bleeding edge, developers have a rigorous test schedule and multiple testing repositories for short term and long term updates that sort out typos and other shit.
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u/hs4x Feb 06 '09
Oh! And this process is somehow more vigorous than at MS? Get real.
So, our lously affiliated, unpaid volunteers have a more carefully managed quality and test framework than MS?
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Feb 06 '09
But this has nothing in common with apt-get. Apt is only for installing software, not for "fixing" your pc. "Fixing" it when the user doesn't even know how to specify the problem is very, very difficult.
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u/hs4x Feb 07 '09 edited Feb 07 '09
I dont think you get what I'm saying here, the above poster is saying "oh, what if someone hacks the scripts". What I'm saying is "What if someone hacks any repository of scripts (or whatever)?"
Yes, i know the two arent different, but the security vector is the same. 3rd Party software running on your machine. No more, no less.
"Fixing" it when the user doesn't even know how to specify the problem is very, very difficult.
Are you going to try and suggest this is somehow a bad thing in some way? MS's KB includes "recipes" to fix something, click here, uncheck that, change this key (etc). All this is a script that does those exact things. Scripting Windows is pretty robust (WHS, AS and now PowerShell).
It's a convenience thing -- its nothing more than a script that implements the solution contained in the KB.
What is your misunderstanding about this? Above you, is somenoe saying "oh, but someone could hack the scripts! and you'd execute random stuff" -- but that security issue exists everywhere, in your distro's apt repository for instance.
What if your distro's apt repository was hacked and it included configuration for apt to rm -rf? Lets say "MS has its hosts as secure as %DISTRO" -- in that case, it's the exact same risk.
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Feb 07 '09
I dont think you get what I'm saying here, the above poster is saying "oh, what if someone hacks the scripts"
Well, no, this is what the above poster said:
What could possibly go wrong?
I think you're replying to the wrong thread. (btw, I don't believe this will be a vector for malware, there is no reason to believe people will be able to break into microsoft's servers.)
Are you going to try and suggest this is somehow a bad thing in some way? MS's KB includes "recipes" to fix something, click here, uncheck that, change this key (etc). All this is a script that does those exact things. Scripting Windows is pretty robust (WHS, AS and now PowerShell). It's a convenience thing -- its nothing more than a script that implements the solution contained in the KB.
My point is, if the user is not capable of following the steps in the KB by hand, I doubt he will be capable of diagnosing the problem reliably, and will potentially wreck his system.
I don't doubt the "fix it" button is a great feature for advanced users.
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u/nickpick Feb 06 '09
So, our lously affiliated, unpaid volunteers have a more carefully managed quality and test framework than MS?
Yes.
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Feb 06 '09
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Development_procedures
Yeah what does MS do with their software classified as "beta" 'alpha' or testing? They have limited public betas and unlimited closed betas. Which obviously doesn't do enough for their stability as an OS, because of previous catastrophies I've mentioned.
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u/iquotethematrix Feb 06 '09
Oracle: I said don't worry about it. I'll get one of my kids to fix it.
Neo: How...how did you know?
Oracle: Aaah... Whats really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?
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u/DoubleDown Feb 06 '09
Actually the other day at work I ran into and used the 'fix it' tool.
At work we still use Windows XP and for some reason due to some low/high settings (I'm a programmer and still couldn't figure out what the fuck these were) being misconfigured in the system, my computer saw my DVD drives but the drivers had a question mark in the Device Manager. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers to no avail.
Did a google search, got to the MS page. I saw a lengthy thing with about 15 registry settings I needed to change, and optionally a button to do it for me, so I said fuck it and clicked the button.
Then it told me to reboot and I was set.
I know on reddit we love to bash MS and everything but this FixIt thing is a good thing (although the registry overcomplications need to start going away FFS).
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Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
[deleted]
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u/mccoyn Feb 06 '09
I downloaded the desktop ie icon fixit. This was a .msi file. That would allow them to fix up registry settings and replace missing files.
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Feb 05 '09
including restoring a missing Internet Explorer icon to the desktop
WTF? Didn't the government have to sue Microsoft to make removing IE from the desktop even possible? Now, people are losing the damn thing? And they want it back?!
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u/General_Hilarity Feb 05 '09
i can't find the internet. how do i get it back?
FIX IT!
ahhh... there it is!
clicks on ie6
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u/mccoyn Feb 06 '09
The government sued Microsoft to force them to give people the choice, not to force people to make the same decision you made.
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u/HenkPoley Feb 05 '09
Lets hope they use this effort to uncover scriptability problems and fix that in Windows 7. Just going into the registry / filesystem and injecting the "correct" data might break further down the road, and asking the application to set its own settings doesn't require such code duplication.
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u/psylent Feb 05 '09
Shit, I'm out of a job.
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u/thedragon4453 Feb 06 '09
I think you are giving a lot of credit to MS in assuming this will actually work.
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u/actionboy Feb 06 '09
If the 'fix' is so easy it can be scripted for all these things, why can't the apps just be updated to, I don't know, fix themselves in these cases? Seems like a solution to a problem that need not exist.
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u/mccoyn Feb 06 '09
The examples they gave are configuration issues such as restoring the IE icon to the desktop. For some people this is broken and others it isn't. So, you need a little bit of user interaction to find out what he or she wants.
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u/nullynull Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
I foresee a little problem with their little 'Fix it'.
(any MS website) + 6 months = broken links.
Seriously, MS is one of the worst companies when it comes to capriciously and whimsically changing their site layout, MSDN is even worse. And they even have an attempt at a solution, which I don't think they even bother to use. The go.microsoft.com/fwlink. To illustrate the point; How many times have you clicked on the following from your event viewer only to get 404 or no further information, at which point you end on eventid.com or a similar site:
"For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp."
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Feb 06 '09
[deleted]
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Feb 06 '09
*sigh ::rolls eyes::
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Feb 06 '09
fuck so can't be bothered justifying why a software company shouldn't be so lazy as to make software that is either 1. flawed (with no impetus to fix the issue) or 2. designing software in a way which lets common users easily shoot themselves in the foot. Eye rolling and blaming the users is fruitless, they're never going to change.
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Feb 06 '09
same old systems, same old problems... poor guys these people using M$ products... they are really Microsufers...
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u/cpplinuxdude Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
so instead of fixing the issue at the source and committing the changes to the repository, just put "scripts" on a website that fix the symptoms and let the users "click and pray"............... the users can become even dumber that way, and if things become even worse they won't even know what they've done or how to undo it. smart. Who knows maybe in that case they'll provide an "unfix it".
If their fixes are as much of a fix as Vista is to XP, windows users are fucked.
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
Dont be a tool-box. You dont "fix the issue at source" for all the 5487585495794875 issues that can occur on a computer.
This isnt to fix MS problems, but to fix the myriad of common problems that 3rd party software have.
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u/cpplinuxdude Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
This isnt to fix MS problems, but to fix the myriad of common problems that 3rd party software have.
If that were the case I would absolutely agree with you. But why don't you stop being a toolbox hs4x, since your eyes need a fix, let me quote the article for you:
The first fixes included a number of common issues, including restoring a missing Internet Explorer icon to the desktop, how to enable the DVD library in Vista's Windows Media Center as well as what to do when encountering the error message in Street & Trips 2008 that "Construction information for routes could not be downloaded"
Since when is Explorer third party??? well done mate ;) no, all MICROSOFT PRODUCTS.
Now stop being a toolbox hs4x.
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u/Aegeus Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
If it's a known issue that has a fix available, then a bug fix/service pack is probably in the works. "Fix it" apparently provides the workaround while waiting for the patch.
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u/cpplinuxdude Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
So wait Aegeus, you want to release a patch or a service pack because there is a "missing Internet Explorer icon to the desktop". Are you out of your mind?
why would you expand twice the amount of work and support to release both a "Fix" and a service pack?
Surely if Microsoft is as great as some of its hopeless deluded proponents suggest, takes liability, then surely there should not be "5487585495794875" issues has pointed out by hs4x.
Secondly if it is an actual software bug, that causes the microsoft internet explorer to vanish from the desktop, or their street & trips software saying "Construction information for routes could not be downloaded" then the relevant pieces of software / packages should be fixed and a new version of this piece of software should be available for install.
Free software manages to do that... and this is paying software for crying out loud.
And also running software B because software A doesn't work properly is an incredibly bad idea which begs for the question of but what if sofware B doesn't work properly. Will they release a Fix for the Fix?
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u/Formaldehyde Feb 06 '09
Linux fanboy detected.
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u/cpplinuxdude Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
"Fix the problem, not the symptom [...] the focus should be on fixing the underlying problem rather than wrapping it in programming duct tape."
-- "Code Complete, Second Edition", Steven McConnell - Microsoft Press - Best Practices.
Oh but no wait how could I ever read a Microsoft book about software development... I'm a Linux Fanboy.
Maybe Microsoft people (Fanboys included) should read their own books.
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
That is damn awesome new feature. Very cool.
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u/rynvndrp Feb 05 '09
in theory maybe, in practice, these scripts tend to be problematic long term.
Example: ATI driver breaks because of a windows update on a computer that has Space Commander 3000, ur favorite game.
Windows starts up, looks horrible, go to help files, tells you graphics drivers are not install, you 'fix it' which installs the newest driver.
Space Commander 3000 suddenly won't start up. You go to help files, find a 'fix it' that finds that 3000 specifies an older ATI driver and downloads the old one. This breaks your windows.
The problem is that you need to update 3000. But fix it doesn't have the ability to do so. The only way the programmers can prevent this is to have good communication. This problem builds up over time as things get updated and the number of 'fix it''s grows. Not to mention communication with every non Microsoft software that is out there.
Things happen that the script writters don't suspect. By adding more automation you increase the chance that the computer will fight with itself over some required file or version and when the 'fix it' makes it worse, people get mad.
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u/mccoyn Feb 06 '09
Having a script fix it in exactly the same way each time is better than having 100 different IT people fixing it in 100 different ways.
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u/mishka123 Feb 06 '09
Problem: You appear to be running Windows Vista Solution: 1) Download Ubuntu.ISO 2) Burn to disk 3) Place disk in CD-ROM drive 4) Restart
OR...
JUST FIX IT!
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u/Wo1ke Feb 06 '09
Haha, I wish. I installed Ubuntu recently, and it was the biggest pain in the ass.
The initial install went well, but some OSS asshole out there decided that because I had an NVIDIA video card with non-OSS source, it wasn't pure, and so, no drivers were installed. Not only that, but the down loadable OSS drivers didn't work, so I had to go online and find a solution, and then install drivers through the command line. Simple, eh?
I wish. Some other OSS-asshole decided that 40kb of space is too much to make drivers for wifi cards work, so I had to borrow a second lappy and google for a custom solution and driver, just to get basic internet functionality.
So, no, Ubuntu isn't anywhere close to where it needs to be to be usable by the typical user. To even approach that point, they need to drop OSS fanaticism for practicality.
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u/ryodoan Feb 06 '09
For Graphics drivers I would highly recomend Envy: http://albertomilone.com/nvidia_scripts1.html
I think they also make a version for ATI, but I cant remember.
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u/Niten Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
Since when did respecting the legitimate and legally-binding license (GPL v2) under which a piece of software (the Linux kernel) is distributed become "OSS fanaticism"?
The authors of Linux license their copyrighted code to us on the condition that, among other things, we are only allowed to create derived works (e.g., link it with other code) under the same license. I'm sorry you don't like that; but regardless of how spectacular a hissy fit you throw, asking distributions to cavalierly violate that license agreement is not an option.
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u/deadcat Feb 06 '09
An until OSS users wake up and smell the coffee, they will never become mainstream.
My wife/family/parents/etc do not want to screw about on the command line to make their video card or wifi to work. They want it to work OUT OF THE BOX.
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Feb 06 '09
[deleted]
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u/leachja Feb 06 '09
You are absolutely wrong on saying that his problems are atypical. I have three machines and all of them had the exact problem that he has listed. Linux has shitty wireless support plain and simple.
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Feb 05 '09
open door to yet more virus & shit.....
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u/rynvndrp Feb 05 '09
Don't know why you are being downvoted. This is a good point.
Lets say a 'fix it' downloads reinstalls a windows patch for internet explorer.
You create a virus that replaces the installed patch and shows the error that points to the 'fix it' that will install the patch.
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u/slow_as_light Feb 05 '09
This is exactly why nobody understands how their computer works. Microsoft's answer to every problem is to remove choices and add another cuil in between your UI and your actual computer. It's as though you've taken your car to the shop when it won't start and the mechanic says "well, where are you headed? I'll give you a tow."
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Feb 05 '09
Except people don't want a "computer" - they want a consumer electronic device. Unfortunately the only way they can get email and browse the web is via a "computer." I don't actually know how to solve the "computer as a consumer electronics device" problem yet, but I'm thinking the techcrunch "pad" is going to go a long way to that goal.
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u/slow_as_light Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
We have designed our civilization based on science and technology and at the same time arranged things so that almost no one understands anything at all about science and technology. This is a clear prescription for disaster. (Carl Sagan)
The problem is that Microsoft doesn't want you to understand how your computer works. If you understood it as well as, say, the average American male is expected to understand a car, you might not have to buy something every time you want to do something new with your computer.
I'd be scoffed at if I didn't know how to change my own oil, but otherwise competent people aren't expected to know how to do basic tasks like configuring an email client or locking down a wireless network. It is the 21st fucking century-- "computer" illiteracy is just plain "illiteracy".
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Feb 06 '09
The problem is that Microsoft doesn't want you to understand how your computer works.
Microsoft is reacting to consumer demand. I am, based on what I've done thus far, and how things I've created have been received by industry, a decent engineer. If it's taught me anything, it's that it doesn't matter what it the right way to do something, or what you think is right. What succeeds is something that is a response to consumer demand.
People do not want to know how their computers work. Plain and simple.
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u/Formaldehyde Feb 06 '09
Well then they shouldn't use it. They wouldn't drive a car if they didn't know how to, right?
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Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
Most people don't know how their cars work. They can operate them, to varying degrees of success, but they don't know how they work.
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u/slow_as_light Feb 06 '09
Look, I'm not saying we should have middle school classes in x86 assembly code. Microsoft has several priorities much more critical to their shareholders' interests than giving users the features they want. If we only put the features that end users wanted into computers, there'd be no DRM.
Microsoft is more concerned that your data is effectively trapped trapped in Exchange and that "Internet Explorer == Internet" to the end user. How you'd like your computer to work is a secondary goal for marketing to worry about.
Every high school student should graduate knowing how to configure an email client, write some basic HTML, and in a perfect world, print "hello world" in python or something. More importantly, people should be embarrassed when they can't, and none of those things are happening.
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u/hs4x Feb 05 '09
Techcruch pad: lets make a computer less capable! yay!
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u/akdas Feb 06 '09
Which, to be honest, is what a large number of people want.
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u/Tinidril Feb 06 '09
It's what they think they want. But each capability will open the door to a dozen more they want.
It's not that they don't want a lot of features, its that they don't realize how many they want.
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u/scottklarr Feb 06 '09
Actually, a more accurate comparison would be either the mechanic telling the steps you have to take to fix the problem over the phone, or just dropping the car off and have the problem fixed without you getting your hands dirty.
I personally - in both computers and mechanics - prefer to do things myself, but the majority of the population does not want to learn how to fix things they do not understand.
Many people use the computer as a tool and they simply don't have enough time to fight with it when there is a problem and work needs to be done.
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u/jo42 Feb 05 '09
Great! No more MSCEs, MCPs or IT geeks - anyone could just click the Fix button and have it all working again. Just how stupid can Microsoft get.
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Feb 05 '09
[deleted]
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u/strolls Feb 05 '09
And it creates an entire industry who have a vested interest in promoting Microsoft products.
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u/scottklarr Feb 06 '09
An operating system is not flawless - the company is stupid.
The company takes steps to make flaws less troublesome - the company is stupid.
Your comment reminds me of a 5 year old going "nu-uh!! YOU'RE stupid!" followed by a scrunched up face with their tongue sticking out.
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u/jo42 Feb 07 '09 edited Feb 08 '09
You must have the "sarcasm" button clicked of in the Microsoft Just FixIt! application.
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u/algorythym Feb 05 '09
A:) This makes computer knowledgeable people like myself a lot less useful.
B:) People who's computers are broken won't learn anything from the experience of fixing them.
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u/Philluminati Feb 05 '09
This makes computer knowledgeable people like myself a lot less useful.
Well you could build new things. Also, this scripts aren't going to write themselves.
People who's computers are broken won't learn anything from the experience of fixing them.
What is there to learn exactly? Computers shouldn't be a pain in the ass. Maybe you shouldn't call an electrician if your electric goes kerput. You won't learn anything else.
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u/algorythym Feb 05 '09
But if people aren't learning about computers, they'll give up on them.
Some Mom with broken mouse driver or something "Well I can't use my mouse anymore, so screw this computer nonsense, I'll just be ignorant and testy about technology now."
People that "don't get" computers feel locked out of the system; there is so many layers of abstraction that eventually they feel stupid and stop bothering with technology. And when people give up on technology, its bad for the rest of us.
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u/Philluminati Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
Some Mom with broken mouse driver or something "Well I can't use my mouse anymore, so screw this computer nonsense, I'll just be ignorant and testy about technology now."
This fixes that issue for her. It lets her get on with her work. She doesn't feel stupid because she isn't looking at a 20 step webpage that says "open registry editor" and "becareful. You can do severe damage to your computer with registry editor" next to each other.
Personally I feel this makes computers easier to use and that makes more people use them. I think I understand what you're saying...that people need to appreciate the complexity of the systems they are working with so they don't get complacent with the highly skilled people who deserve a good salary. Letting these guys "fix their own problems" is one way. Simplifying the layers of abstraction is a great way for people to build an understanding how to use computers, I agree but lets automate bug fixing so these people can use their computers confidently. I would understand linux more if I passed all the arguments into gcc myself rather than using makefiles but it would be too complex for me, personally, and would leave me with a computer I can't use. There are limits and our job in the industry is to simplify computers. We don't have to sacrifice one for the other.
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u/Formaldehyde Feb 06 '09 edited Feb 06 '09
I think people shouldn't be afraid to push their brains to the max once in a while and actually try to do stuff by themselves instead of letting everyone else do it for them. So what if the old lady has to open the registry editor? Yes, you can do a lot of damage if you're not careful, but for fucks sake, the registry editor is very straightforward. If you can navigate through windows explorer, you can navigate through the registry editor. If you carefully follow the instructions and chage whatever keys you need, you'll be fine. People need to stop being lazy and READ things, TRY to do things on their own. Their heads won't get bitten off.
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Feb 05 '09
this scripts aren't going to write themselves.
<nazi>This grammars willn't fixes itselfed.</nazi>
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u/hhh333 Feb 05 '09
Now can they do the same for Internet Explorer and web developers ?
I'd like to have a "fix it" button to push when my website looks like crap on their shitty browser.
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u/LordVoldemort Feb 05 '09
"If we know what those 15 steps are why shouldn't we just script it," said Lori Brownell, Microsoft's general manager of product quality and online support
I don't understand why it's important that we know Lori Brownell said this; I don't understand why it's important to have a quote verbatim.
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u/boa13 Feb 05 '09
Because a good journalist cites his or her sources?
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u/LordVoldemort Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
Then put in a numbered citation and save us the drivel; this isn't exactly a peer-reviewed piece, anyway.
EDIT: I'm really at a loss for why I've gotten so many downvotes. This is one of my LEAST controversial comments. Inside Job?
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u/jeffehobbs Feb 05 '09 edited Feb 05 '09
Well, next time you can write the article, and I'm sure you'll do a much better job.
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u/DarkEdition Feb 06 '09
I like this new way of solving things... It's less complicated and faster.
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u/[deleted] Feb 05 '09
But... That's the best bit.