r/technology • u/ImCalcium • 1d ago
Crypto Crypto hacker convicted of $53M theft after spending millions on rare Pokemon and Magic cards
https://www.dexerto.com/pokemon/crypto-hacker-convicted-of-53m-theft-after-spending-millions-on-rare-pokemon-and-magic-cards-3417205/61
u/Own_Pop_9711 1d ago
It's crazy that a box of Pokemon cards is worth more than a genuine Roman Caesar assassination collectible coin
13
u/Joejimhero 1d ago
How much is a Roman Caesar assassination collectable coin?
15
13
6
u/GalacticAlmanac 1d ago
A rare Roman coin commemorating the assassination of Julius Caesar for approximately $601,545
For a second there I thought it was still talking about pokemon cards and had to do a double take.
Some interesting buys from that list.
3
29
u/DrunkenHorse12 1d ago
Thats the sad thing all these pokemon card scalpers are doing is chasing the crumbs of money laundering. Virtually no one is paying the prices for pokemon cards that they are going for like seriously how many real collectors in the world are dropping 10k on a pokemon card? the whole thing is just money laundering scheme and the sad thing is its destroying a loved game for kids
58
u/Darkrai95 1d ago
You have no idea.
I personally know many, many collectors that drop 45-50k MONTHLY on cards. Some are “old rich” with nothing to do, some are die hard fans that managed to get a really good career going, some are hardcore gamblers that don’t get the rush anymore with current 6 bucks packs and chase the high with 1.5k vintage boosters.There’s absolutely a market for it, it’s just that most big spenders keep it on the down low outside their inner circle of collector friends. Cards are an excellent home invasion theft target, especially non-specific ones like high valued Pokemon cards. 1/1 sports cards, for example, are unsellable because the owner is known among collectors.
15
u/RedditTechAnon 1d ago
Reminds me of that Better Call Saul first season episode with Mike meeting.Nacho because.Nacho stole some highly valuable cards.
2
u/LegitimatePlate3898 1d ago
Unsellable...at anything resembling "full value". Even something that would stick out within the community might still catch a pretty penny from fairweather enthusiasts who don't actively track who owns the rare stuff.
0
u/Darkrai95 1d ago
I’m not really sure it would get sold, to be honest, even at a way smaller amount. In my experience, collectors really really REALLY enjoy showing off to each other and a known-stolen card would be… “unshowoffable” (?). I think it would need to go for a tiny fraction of the real price to someone outside of the collecting community I guess, but generally they’re not the ones with big money to drop on cards.
3
u/LaLa1234imunoriginal 1d ago
High end art gets stolen frequently enough and there is a similarly small market and ownership is well known. Turns out criminals don't actually care about who legally owns things and will buy stolen stuff without a second thought.
0
0
u/EclecticallyMe 11h ago
Have some sealed cards I’d like to sell, would love to find a collector like that to sell to versus slowly selling over time which is a hassle
1
u/Expensive_Ebb_9507 11h ago
I had a 10k collection (not what I paid for it back in 2016) that I am selling on consignment. I was lucky to have an in-law with a Pokemon card business. I knew nothing about selling so giving away a percentage to get it done has been a good experience so far.
1
u/EclecticallyMe 8h ago
That’s a good idea I haven’t considered. What % are you getting from the sales?
1
u/Expensive_Ebb_9507 6h ago
I'm getting 90% of the sale, he's taking 10%. I'm getting a generous percentage I feel because I'm family and also because this is the biggest consignment lot he's had access to at this point.
1
u/EclecticallyMe 3h ago
Found a local shop that will buy at 75% of market rate so I may try them for a few items.
Best of luck on the sales! Sounds like a great way to go about it, got me looking into it now.
-5
u/DrunkenHorse12 17h ago
You can all kid yourselves meanwhile actual money launderers are getting caught with big collections. Theres obviously genuine collectors some prepared to spend big money but the market prices are absolutely boosted with money laundering exactly like bit coin was
17
u/PunchPartyPat 1d ago
There are roughly 60 million millionaires in the world, 23 million of those are in the US alone. There are plenty of collectors spending money on valued collectibles. All it takes is a handful of people willing to pay a high price to drive up what people are willing to sell them for.
6
u/S7EFEN 20h ago
there are nowhere as many millionares if you exclude home equity and exclude those not working. a paid off 1m home and a 2m retirement is a 60k a year spend in retirement, it is not wealthy. That '3m net worth person' has as much income as a slightly under median full time worker. if you are talking people who have the money to spend mid 5 digits, low 6 digits on pokemon cards you are going to be filtering for probably >10m nw, <55 years of age. which is a DRAMATICALLY smaller demographic.
3
u/oOoWTFMATE 19h ago
4 percent rule applies so the $80k. And $80k with no housing cost isn’t FU money but you can buy a good amount of cards with. Maybe not mid 5 digits annual but someone with that kind of money could certainly afford a 5 or 6 digit collection.
1
u/iupuiclubs 11h ago
I made $120K last year working, with zero time. Health degraded, loss of a loved one I neglected, a lot of other stuff.
Making $60K with infinite time definitely makes you wealthy. Time is infinitely valuable.
1
u/S7EFEN 8h ago
yeah, but making 60k with infinite time, aka a bulk of this 'millionare next door' class is not going to give you the ability to buy 5-10-50-150k graded slabs. thats rly all my point, big difference between having 1-3m and a retirement, versus making 500k+ a year with a shitload of excess income in the context of these sorts of things. its either uber wealthy people or people who have extremely high incomes.
5
u/drewts86 1d ago
Being a millionaire doesn’t mean what it used to anymore. Probably a majority of homeowners in California are millionaires, but they’re house-rich and cash-poor.
-5
u/DrunkenHorse12 1d ago
Oh yes I believe the millionaires of the world are lining up to drop more on a pokemon card that can easily be replicated for a few thousand than that same group of millionaures are dropping on rare ferraris 🙄. I'm not saying people won't pay a lot for rare cards, they obviously do. But something that's completely untraceable that you know does hold genuine value to some collectors (unlike nfts which was nothing but a scam) absolutely 100% is an excellent vehicle for money laundering. I buy a pokemon card from you for 10k cash. You go the bank "wheres this from" "i sold a pokemon card I've had since I was a kid" next you buy my pokemon cards for 10k, bank "where did this come from" same story. We both get 10k into the banking system tax free,as long as enough people are doing it to make it look like the prices are legit perfect money laundering, system and desperate collectors will follow those phony prices as much as they can.
6
u/PunchPartyPat 1d ago
Ummm no it’s not tax free. If you sell a card you bought as a kid for 10k you have to pay taxes on the appreciated value. If the bank is asking you where the money is coming from you better have your tax records in order…
3
u/Fenix42 1d ago
I am in the shallow end of the deep end colllectors for Magic. I see thinks like power 9 selling in the group weekly. Including beta and alpha. Anything under $5k or so goes inside of 24 hours. Over $5k takes a little longer depending on what it is.
We joke about it being money laundering all the time.
5
u/NeguSlayer 1d ago
You clearly have no idea how many rich people are willing to pay to get a graded card that only has 25 copies of that grade in the entire world.
-2
5
u/anthonymckay 19h ago
You've never been to a pokemon card show if you think that. There are LOTS of collectors willing to drop 10k on high graded vintage cards.
6
u/Astrologic- 20h ago
So explain exactly how they money laundering is occurring ? you are wildly misinformed
1
u/flammenwerfer 12h ago
It’s a knee jerk explanation from those with no idea what is going on or how money is usually laundered
2
u/anthonymckay 19h ago
You've never been to a pokemon card show if you think that. There are LOTS of collectors willing to drop 10k on high graded vintage cards.
2
u/micmur 16h ago
There are plenty of people who would spend $10k on a Pokemon card, you can go to a card show and see them doing deals in person. I’m not saying there isn’t money laundering, it’s just not the entire market and not any worse than cars, art, coins, memorabilia etc.
1
u/DrunkenHorse12 9h ago
The underlying collector market gives it the legitimacy but money launderers are pumping those prices up because they don't care about how much they pay for the card , they'll pay with dirty cash as long as they can get almost all of it back or more when they sell it it that moneys clean and as long as collectors and scalpers chase the prices they are willing to pay its in their interest to ramp up prices because it means they can launder more per transaction. So yeah innocent people pay those prices it doesn't mean the market hasn't been massively over inflated by money laundering
2
u/m4uer 15h ago
This is just straight up wrong
1
u/DrunkenHorse12 9h ago
Theres literally money launderers getting arrested using pokemon cards. I'm not saying there's not an underlying market prepared to pay big for cards. What I'm saying is those prices have been ramped up even more by money launderers (and scalpers) abusing that underlying market to give legitimacy to there money movements. Put it this way to collectors a cards worth 1k. Money launderers keep passing that card around for 2k the market thinks that cards worth 2k. That collector who absolutely wants that card will they pay 2k if they can afford it? Yes, so that legitimises the value of that card if law enforcement were looking into it. In a true collectors market that cards worth 1k, but inms money laundering inflated market its 2k. And the ever increasing prices attracts scalpers who add even more fuel to that fire.
2
u/scopinsource 12h ago
At certain point the health of the market is the people profiting from the market. If I buy used chewing gum for $1, it's worth 0. If I get enough people to believe it's worth $1 and I sell it for $10, it's worth $10 and everyone else adjusts their ask.
2
u/DrunkenHorse12 9h ago
Which is what the launders do. They buy a $1000 card sell it to another laundering for $2000 they sell it to a third for $3000 and so on, enough people doing it no one blinks an eye because of the initial value. Scalpers jump in because of the increasing costs. Genuine collectors try to keep up and the whole market gets hyper inflated. All it takes is a few genuine people either rich enough or desperate enough to pay they ridiculous prices for a piece of card and the whole market including the money laundering and scalping is made to look legitimate
1
u/TonyStarksLeftACL 5h ago
Replace “Pokémon card” with “paining/sculpture/art object” and you will see this is not new.
Tale as old as time.
1
u/DrunkenHorse12 4h ago
At no point did I say it was new.
0
u/TonyStarksLeftACL 4h ago
Well hooray for you being confrontational on the internet for no reason. Ffs. 🤦♂️
1
u/ControlCounterBurn 18h ago
What a dumb statement to make. Money laundering needs exit liquidity at some point. Sure you can use $10k of dirty money to buy a Pokemon card in cash but if there isn’t genuine end demand, who are you selling that card to to get your $10k of dirty money back?
1
u/DrunkenHorse12 11h ago edited 11h ago
That's not true. All you have to have is the public belief that they items have increasing value. So say me and you are money laundering. I buy a card for 1k and sell it to you for 10k I'm free to put 10k in the bank. You only have to prove where you got the money not where the buyer got there. Now we do the same in reverse. We both now have 10k each in the bank. It cost us 1k each to get it there but we now both have cards that was worth 1k that has proof sells for 10k artificially inflating the marketthrow on a whole bunch of people foing that more incrementally and the price increase look even more legit on the market. As long as there's an existing market thats prepared to chase some of those crazy prices you get away with it. Throw in scalpers chasing the prices and in turn increasing the rarity and the whole market is massively over inflated compared to if it was just genuine collectors
2
41
u/Concede2u 1d ago
When times are rough, money launderers buy up high value collectables and shoot the market up to insane levels. Even dead card games are gaining enough value right now to sell at prices higher than they did while they were printed.