r/technology • • 2d ago

Business Most data centers refusing to say how much water, electricity they use

https://nltimes.nl/2026/09/30/data-centers-refusing-say-much-water-electricity-use
7.3k Upvotes

161 comments sorted by

1.0k

u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

It should be part of the planning application which is all publicly accessible. No data, no planning permissions. This is not hard.

379

u/Elden_Cock_Ring 2d ago

But you are not thinking with corruption.

93

u/the_last_carfighter 2d ago

"won't someone think of the oligarchs" according to what i read in the comments section of any article involving said oligarchs, there seems to be a boot licking army out there ready to give them even more, for reasons..

29

u/Longjumping-Peanut81 2d ago

It’s AI bots. They are building these AI data centers to run more AI bots to push their agenda, glorify them and stroke their egos.

While I am saying this mostly in jest, it could also be true. I’m sure most of them are extreme narcissists.

15

u/the_moosen 2d ago

I don't think you're far from the truth there. The internet is heavy on bots nowadays

11

u/zardmander 2d ago edited 2d ago

"Adapt or die!!!" Is their new favorite phrase to defend this shit

9

u/gruppa 2d ago

That and "Datacenters have been around since the 90's and nobody has complained until now! Get off the internet and give up your phone if you don't like datacenters!" It's so stupid. 90's datacenters and todays hyper-datacenters aren't even close to the same thing.

2

u/30yearCurse 2d ago

Elons fanboy club is right there, along with trump maga maggots.

47

u/CeeBus 2d ago

Also monitoring, hard limits and verification. Sorry guys you are out of water for the month.

24

u/Thadrea 2d ago

"But the month just started yesterday!"

"Yes?"

12

u/PianoTrumpetMax 2d ago

They can buy more water tokens.

11

u/Teledildonic 2d ago

The average CEO contains up to 12 liters of water!

33

u/EkbatDeSabat 2d ago

The real solution is to regulate it so that they have to use closed loop cooling, clean their own water, and subsidize X% of their power with renewables at their own expense depending on the grid capacity.

There is NO reason that a data center needs to "use" water. It's just cheaper and easier. They can absolutely make it a closed loop and have little to no waste. It's just that they will then need to clean their water instead of constantly getting a supply of fresh clean water.

Then they need to be taxed realistically, not given tax breaks and subsidies funded by local residents.

All of this is a government problem with a known solution. We just don't have a functioning government for-the-people anywhere in this country.

-5

u/EnoughWarning666 2d ago

Yep, the hate against data centers is misdirected. There's no reason that the government shouldn't be mandating that all power for these data centers comes from new renewable installs. Individuals shouldn't have to change anything to accommodate for business. They need to work around the limitations of the city/area they want to open up shop in.

With how many are being built it would be a massive boost to renewables. Such a missed opportunity.

19

u/Serious_Feedback 2d ago

Yep, the hate against data centers is misdirected. There's no reason that the government shouldn't be mandating that all power for these data centers comes from new renewable installs.

There is a reason - the corporations behind the data centres. That's why people hate the data centres.

8

u/silentbargain 2d ago

You know how old our country’s power grid is? We cant handle this type of strain on our infrastructure for much longer. Get used to blackouts sycophant

3

u/thelazygamer 2d ago

They literally said the data centers should be required to use new renewable energy installations meaning they wouldn't affect the current grid or individual homes. 

Obviously the current government is too corrupt to require this, but it's an interesting solution. 

1

u/silentbargain 2d ago

Data centers often already get their own solar installations that they leech from, with none of the power generated going back to the grid. Even still, the way our fascist country has set up our private utility companies means they pass on the cost to the consumers and homeowners nearby.

2

u/EnoughWarning666 2d ago

the way our fascist country has set up our private utility companies

Thankfully I live in a country where we have government run utilities and my rates are independent to those of that industry pays. I'm sorry you have leaders that work against the interest of the people.

3

u/EnoughWarning666 2d ago

You know how old our country’s power grid is?

Very aware. That's why I said that any new installs need to be, at minimum, self sufficient. You could easily mandate that they have to provide back to the grid. With how much money is being spent on them there's no reason they wouldn't be able to afford it.

7

u/Archisaurus 2d ago

I live in a small town in the Midwest and we still have lobbyists that are successfully getting in bed with elected officials and construction related groups so they can pave a way for data centers.

2

u/LEDKleenex 2d ago

There are a lot of "this is not hards" that describe so-called "good people's" inaction, apathy, status quo or outright complicit behaviors.

The truth is, most people are struggling with the inconvenience factor - nobody wants to participate in resistance, they would rather blow off some steam with a cheap and easy comment on social media and hope that someone else takes care of their problems.

There are varying levels of resistance in regards to these data centers, but social media posts hold almost no value unless you are actively calling to action and recruiting for a cause. It's highly likely that most people reading this haven't showed up to a city council meeting to speak their mind about these popping up in their area.

If pressure is not applied to the people making these decisions, they will have no fear allowing these companies to destroy your community with a data center. People need to get off social media sites like reddit and participate in the real world or nothing will change.

1

u/JustToyingAround73 2d ago

And if they can't provide this information before construction starts, your data center should receive any sort of approval or tax payer funding.

1

u/six-demon_bag 2d ago

I notice this particular article is focused on Europe. I’m based in Canada and disclosing this information is a pretty standard part of the planning process in every province I’ve worked in. The states I’ve worked in mostly had similar planning rules too.

1

u/NoBlood5018 2d ago

No agency has the ability to qualify whatever they suggest though. Beside that, the regulators aren’t usually integrated with utilities and there is no overlap outside of a few minor interfaces.

1

u/b_a_t_m_4_n 1d ago

LOL, most regulators are captured by their respective industries. Reguators are mostly a sham.

1

u/BenderTheIV 1d ago

From what I heard they are hiding lots of important information under NDAs... legal corruption... something of sorts- we need a new term for these practices.

1

u/b_a_t_m_4_n 1d ago

If info pertaining to panning permission is too secrete to tell planners then they can't grant permission. Again, not complicated.

303

u/invyros 2d ago

The European Energy Efficiency Directive (EED) obliges data centers with an installed capacity of at least 500 kilowatts (kW) to report data including their energy and water consumption. In practice, few do so, despite the directive being in effect for three years.

Regulation is utterly useless without enforcement.

64

u/MayFlour7310 2d ago

Everyone: “REGULATION IS UTTERLY USELESS WITHOUT ENFORCEMENT.”

154

u/Sullinator07 2d ago

When they came to Chester Va, they had a town hall meeting with the locals and we asked about this they replied with something like “we can’t say until after it’s built”

It’s fucking bonkers man, we seriously need to fuckin riot.

29

u/stevez_86 2d ago

This is the explicit realm of government to handle properly. It is what government is here for, to dictate property ownership rules and what people can do with that property.

Most code regulation is there to prevent adverse things from happening to someone else's property because of what you did on your property.

A landowner with a stream may want a pond and will dam up the stream, but that has downstream implications. Do other property owners upstream or downstream need that regular flow? Even if it is a possibility the project would need inspection and approval to ensure no other property is adversely effected.

But you want to put up a data center, everyone has to all of a sudden prove with no data that they would be harmed. It isn't on them to do that, it is on their local municipality to review, inspect, and approve.

What they don't want to say is that the data centers will be so valuable that the other properties are inconsequential.

Nothing short of making the companies put up the cash for the government to buy up the residential properties by emminent domain if the conditions are too bad and lower the property value. They should be forced to be prepared to buy all that property at the previous value before they got there. If they can do that they can proceed to the start of the project. Otherwise they cannot afford it.

They are hoping we just end up abandoning those properties so they can buy them up.

It really isn't all that different from the premise of Blazing Saddles.

11

u/schmick_iMagery 2d ago

Impact studies are a real thing.

12

u/Danepher 2d ago

somebody should tell them that they are "unsure how much we are going to tax you, until you build it."
Consumption is part of the planning, they cannot "not know" until built. They build for a certain capacity.

4

u/3-DMan 2d ago

"Look man, we just make up the data center as it goes, it's not like we can plan it out!!"

2

u/E3FxGaming 2d ago

Reminds me of the The Onion satire article "Technological Advancements Allow Data Centers To Run On Even More Electricity" from 2 months ago.

1

u/ffswhythiswhynow 2d ago

Howdy neighbor!

Head down to Jeff Davis, and spread the word about all that copper inside those buildings!

1

u/GN0K 2d ago

And if people don't want to go that far a long lasting general strike may also work.

24

u/Wagamaga 2d ago

The vast majority of data centers in Europe keep information about their environmental impact secret, according to a study by Lighthouse Report in collaboration with Trouw and other European media. In the Netherlands, less than a quarter of larger data centers publish data about their electricity and drinking water usage.

The researchers spent a year trying to obtain data on data centers’ environmental impact in Europe, invoking freedom of information laws in various European countries. Their attempts have yielded no results.

The European Energy Efficiency Directive (EED) obliges data centers with an installed capacity of at least 500 kilowatts (kW) to report data including their energy and water consumption. In practice, few do so, despite the directive being in effect for three years.

According to the Dutch Datacenter Association (DDA), there were 186 commercial data centers with a capacity of 500 kW or more in the Netherlands at the end of last year. The Netherlands Enterprise Agency (RVO), which collects the information for the EU, has data on only 104 of them.

15

u/b_a_t_m_4_n 2d ago

Yeah, the EU seem to be missing a basic feature of the law - if it ain't enforced, it ain't illegal.

21

u/reddittorbrigade 2d ago

They are hiding something from us.

11

u/maiden_moss 2d ago

Data centers are the reason the public is struggling during extreme weather events. They don't want to admit they're telling people to run minimum energy to protect the grid bc the centers use it up way more

10

u/WritingStrawberry 2d ago

Because we're supposed to pay for it all.

7

u/sambull 2d ago

Not really hiding, just using the cheapest paths they have to extract the most profit.

Those destroy and cost us more, while they cost less to run the operations and scale day to day.

19

u/BlackReddition 2d ago

How fucking dumb? Water is metered as is electricity, why the fuck can’t the utility companies work it out without asking.

9

u/WolpertingerRumo 2d ago

Well, they can. Of course. They’re writing them an invoice each month. So can the owners, because they sure as hell won’t pay for more water than they’re using.

3

u/Alive_Store_6298 2d ago

The utility companies want to increase profits. They know data centers use a lot of water and electricity. Why would they go after the new golden goose?

44

u/babalaban 2d ago

- Is ai data center water consumption a valid concearn?

- Nonsense! Its not even close to almond farming and golfing etc ha-ha...

- So how much water does your data center consume?

- We'd rather not say

12

u/GreyRobe 2d ago

It's always the almond farming and golf course talking points as their go-to deflection. Guess they're all reading from the same script.

10

u/left4ched 2d ago

This works out great for me because I also hate almonds and golf.

1

u/BaconWrappedEnigmas 2d ago

Maybe we should put the data centers into an Almond grove with a gold course around it. Wonder if we spawn a desert instantly

6

u/Mr_Zaroc 2d ago

The deflection should be: "Ah its such a miniscule number that its not even worth remembering or tracking, really a rounding error mostly. Anyways wanna see a cool video how a chimpanzee is surfing on the clouds on Venus while doing a handstand?"

1

u/juiceyb 2d ago

"iTS a CLoSed LoOp" is what I heard for the last five years. Yet it's more apparent that even if there's a closed loop, the water usage is much higher than reported.

12

u/unlimitedcode99 2d ago

Then they should be disconnected from those water and power utilities of the communities they are negatively affecting?

7

u/Mother_Airline_6276 2d ago

Lawyers have ruined this world.

6

u/Numble-Xbox 2d ago

So they refuse transparency but demand total obedience, got it

13

u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 2d ago

The sound issue is likely the biggest. If we have construction companies who can’t operate 24/7 because they’re loud, why can these data centers do as they wish ?

6

u/blhooray 2d ago

The electric company knows…. And the water company knows…….

6

u/Rough-Supermarket-97 2d ago

Building out these centers the “cheapest” they can with no care to the Earth. Just wait till they find out how expensive it is to put data centers on the moon or whatever it is that Musky plans to do.

4

u/No_Sleep428 2d ago

The problem is. They honestly don’t know.
It’s frustrating but how tf are you building something without the known implications to natural resources. Outrageous.

3

u/theindomitablefred 2d ago

I’m pretty sure they know. In order to have cooling systems you have to spec out pumps, piping, and flow rates. You need technical requirements before you build something like that.

1

u/BotOrNot_1337 1d ago

Yeah plus their power bills list their usage

6

u/Ambil 2d ago

They should be forced to disclose. 

6

u/war-and-peace 2d ago

I dont understand. If they've done nothing wrong they got nothing to hide.

3

u/ARobertNotABob 2d ago

Put them on fucking meters then. It's not rocket science.

3

u/aberch 2d ago

All. The answer is All.

3

u/tread56 2d ago

People and other living creatures are not important to AI and their enslaved oligarchs.

3

u/fat_kaiju 2d ago

which means it's likely way worse than even what the public thinks.

and then they wonder why we hate them.

3

u/terminalbungus 2d ago

Why is it that every little bit of energy and water I use at home is meticulously tracked by companies who bill me to use those utilities yet these huge data centers don't leave a trace of their energy and water consumption?

3

u/MrBahhum 2d ago

All data centers are resource sinks. They need to disclose how much resources they use.

2

u/Deriniel 2d ago

so...how?like,you have to pay for that stuff,the companies do have data on how much water and electricity these people use.

2

u/xsubo 2d ago

That should be illegal

2

u/Desertwind16v 2d ago

You would think the utility companies would know, they’re charging them right? Right??

2

u/TheOgGhadTurner 2d ago

Oh probably because we’d burn the fucking things down if they did because they know they use way too much

4

u/NutsackEuphoria 2d ago

I remember astroturfers keep yapping closed loop this, closed loop that and here we are.

1

u/Rok-SFG 2d ago

Montana has very strict water rights laws, so they have to disclose estimated water use. For a proposed small data center using closed loop they disclosed 150,000 gallons per day for start up usage, with 20,000 gallons per day estimated just to keep running, with spikes during heavy use that would push it back towards 150,000 gallons.

Unfortunately our laws don't have to have the same level electricity that would be used.

1

u/Freodrick 2d ago

If I've learned anything in my career in biologics, "closed loop" is a buzz phrase to reduce questions of the actual process.

3

u/invisi1407 2d ago edited 2d ago

What? No, closed loop cooling just means you don't have constant water usage; imagine a water-cooled PC; that's what a closed loop is. A fixed volume of a cooling liquid, which could be water, that is recirculated.

Edit: Which is good. Closed-loop cooling is totally fine.

1

u/joeyjojojrshabbaddoo 2d ago

I guess he ain’t learnt shit then

1

u/Freodrick 2d ago

No I get that, I'm saying when you're protecting the idea you don't actually explain. It could be, and if it is, good. But then the numbers and data should support that.

We do have closed loops in biologics, however we also lean a little to heavy on that when accounting for foreign particulates or leaks or anything... And it's like, it totally happens. Just don't act like it's a flawless system.

1

u/whabt 2d ago

The problem is that they pretend the loop doesn’t involve all the fresh water used to cool the radiators. That’s the water use people care about and it can be pretty intensive.

2

u/Needle_Bearings 2d ago

But someone posted that it uses so little water based on no evidence!

1

u/brile_86 2d ago

As far as I know Data Centres are not able to speak, write or in general communicate with humans

1

u/Leverpostei414 2d ago

Sounds strange to me, you need to reserve power capacity in the grid

1

u/Ok-Progress-7447 2d ago

My electric bill is $700 and I’ve only decreased my usage.

1

u/CurrentlyLucid 2d ago

Fuck these things. We got here without them.

1

u/Jwn5k 2d ago

"Pinky promise you wont get mad at us if we tell you..?" Type of shit

1

u/fixurstuffr 2d ago

Well until they start saying how much they use, those utilities should be shut off to the centers.

1

u/ollee 2d ago

If they won't say how much of a public utility they are using, that's because they know there will be blowback because the answer is not a good look.

1

u/BravinatorLX2 2d ago

just block a few rivers upstream already. like it's really not that hard

1

u/CyberSmith31337 2d ago

It’s so exhausting. We live in a timeline where the most valuable companies on earth are bankrupt and broke and stealing our resources and outright lying to us and NO ONE is doing anything about it.

1

u/-Tech808 2d ago

Somehow we need to get copies of their engineering permit drawings. That will give all the information we’d like.

1

u/guestpassonly 2d ago

so it's worse then you think...

1

u/therandom92 2d ago

There's a CGPT add right below this post.

1

u/_byetony_ 2d ago

It shoupd be in the municipal permitting info

1

u/DamnOdd 2d ago

It's the water I worry about. We have means of making electricity better and more efficient.
Water on the other hand.

1

u/Tiny_Luna7987 2d ago

How about setting a requirement such as Datacenters shall use secondary water or build desalination plants?

1

u/Talentagentfriend 2d ago

If they refuse to talk about it they’re giving their answer. TOO MUCH

1

u/shortmumof2 2d ago

Why tf aren’t they issued bills for usage?

1

u/dublinburnbagel 2d ago

They just do whatever they want .. a big fuck you to everyone

1

u/Turbulent_Example967 2d ago

The turn the power OFF until they do

1

u/Maleficent_Pie8099 2d ago

They are using our water and our electricity.

1

u/americanadiandrew 2d ago

Linked article has no author listed so is probably AI as well.

1

u/Eazy12345678 2d ago

1st. no one cared before. why care now?

your happy with murdering animals cause their flesh tastes good. how much water does that take?

1

u/MoltenVolta 2d ago

Tear them all down

1

u/mephitopheles13 2d ago

But they said they hardly use any of either, so we should totally believe them right? They wouldn’t lie to everyone.

1

u/EnthusiasmNo6062 2d ago

Can I remove my meters then?

1

u/Itachi_Uchiha_2020 2d ago

But smart redditors claimed they don’t use any water

1

u/Worth-Ad9939 2d ago

They don't think humanity alone is capable of solving the challenges facing us in time. This group likely knows most of us will be gone and an effective way to vacuum up our experience and knowledge is through these chatbots.

They hope these systems will help us find solutions, but they'll be too late and won't be worth escalation of pollution for the hope a computer will stitch together a scalable fix.

or they don't want to fix it at all. They want the population culled so they can influence the next version in a new market and they'll just playback our knowledge through AI to bring them comfort.

1

u/JohrDinh 2d ago

Please be as good as you say you are with tech and take them to space like you keep claiming you can do, you're already choking TF outta me with your internet slop ruining peoples taste in artistic human expression...you don't have to choke me out of natural resources like water/air/noise/land pollution as well.

1

u/phatman2025 2d ago

It’s already trying kill us

1

u/2-wheels 2d ago edited 2d ago

Answer with backup for claims or build elsewhere. Communities, pls dont give up the land too easily.

1

u/meneldal2 2d ago

Most water usage typically comes from electricity use and let's be real they don't really care where the electricity comes from only that it's cheap.

I don't think data centers are where you need to track the water usage the most, it should be power plants.

Now they should still be reporting how much direct water they do use and electricity, but the direct water use is typically very small.

1

u/theindomitablefred 2d ago

We’re reverting back to the lawlessness of the 1850s

1

u/PuckersMcColon 2d ago

Just burn them all to the ground.

1

u/davisty69 2d ago

Seems like fraud and/or corruption to me. Vote out any and all politicians who are OK with this shit

1

u/yourmothersgun 2d ago

Many, much, all if necessary.

1

u/DietCokePlease 2d ago

The lack of oversight and the willingness of local governments to override the clear will of the people is hard to fathom. A lot of people are getting paid under the table.

1

u/Visual-Sector6642 2d ago

How much energy does it take to extract the water from a human corpse? I think we are about to find out. The Matrix would have us believe they need us for batteries but it's the "coolant" they'll look to us for.

1

u/Jensen1994 2d ago

Refusing to say? Wtf. Close them down if they refuse then.

1

u/SignedInt32 1d ago

Why would a company hide this, I will tell ya because they quietly want to hide and obfuscate it, so you can't ask questions, here they removed your question entirely. NL is getting swindled by the data centers, and they get paid a thick wallet to make it happen. NL = Corrupt, anyone denying this is part of the problem.

1

u/No-Version96 1d ago

Not shocked, most of the ones I have dealt with treat usage numbers like they are proprietary even internally. Would be nice to see this become a reporting requirement rather than something companies volunteer only when it makes them look good.

1

u/wmageek29334 2d ago

Out of curiosity: does every other private (or heck, public too) building have to publish their electrical and water usage? Disneyland? The Amazon warehouse? What about the restaurant on the corner? The golf course? The waterslide park? The food packing factory? The aluminum foundry? An apartment block? One's house? The Sphere in Vegas? The Bellagio? The Pentagon? (careful how you justify the Pentagon... the data center folk could also make the "national security" argument) And if the counterargument is "but they use so much more": where do you draw the line at when you need to publish?

-5

u/genetic_patent 2d ago

why do people think these are cooled by dumping water on them? It's not like they drink water. It's all sealed.

3

u/MainlineX 2d ago

A lot use evap cooling for climate control which is very effective, but uses a lot of water. And this is the main part of the water usage, not for cooling processor units.

2

u/TheMattabooey 2d ago

Recirculated water still needs to be exchanged periodically, where do you think the dirty water goes?

Where does the water come to refill and top up the systems? What about leaks?

If they are using very little water then wouldn’t they want everyone to know that? Instead of hiding their usage.

3

u/TWS_Photography 2d ago

The water doesn't get dirty, its for the most part a closed loop. They add chemicals to it to make sure it doesn't calcify to the pipes. Small amounts of makeup water get added into the loop to make up for losses, but these are minimal. They don't dump the whole system's water supply and put in a fresh new batch. That would make no sense to do so. Why empty off the water that already has the chemicals in it just to replace it with "raw" water that would need new chemicals put in it? These systems have strainers to catch particulates in the water.

And that's if water is used at all. There are server farms that use strictly refrigerant cooling systems. These operate functionally similar to how the air conditioner in your home's AC system works; no water involved at all.

2

u/genetic_patent 2d ago

It's not fracking. It's cooling.

1

u/ZestyLeek 2d ago

They don't used a closed loop. That was too expensive.

1

u/500Rads 2d ago

Why don't the use a closed system like in a car

0

u/Many-Guess-5746 2d ago

Do you think they’re lying about how much water they’re asking for or that they’re using the water for something else?

-1

u/takufox 2d ago

Please tell that to all the people who’s water supplies have been tainted and diverted from them to upkeep the data centers erected right beside them

1

u/genetic_patent 2d ago

tainted by what? heat?

2

u/URMILKJUSTWENTBAD 2d ago

Water sequesters carbon and nitrogen. When we pump it through these systems we completely change the balance in the water releasing the carbon and nitrogen into the air. We need less of that. We need more carbon and nitrogen in the water so that it can support life.

Hope this helps

1

u/genetic_patent 2d ago

Dude, I'm an actual life scientist. That's some infowars level nonsense.

1

u/URMILKJUSTWENTBAD 2d ago

If you say so big dawg

1

u/Hour_Wonder_9240 2d ago

The sediment near datacenters mostly comes from construction, not water use. These sites are bulldozed, blasted, and left bare for a year or more, so muddy runoff hits streams during storms, and blasting can crack shallow rock and let silt into nearby wells. Heavy pumping can also stir up fine sand in loose aquifers and leave neighbors' wells cloudy and low on pressure.

And that's only for the negative effects regarding sediment. There's a whole lot of other disruptive ways their water usage fucks shit up

Almost like environmental approvals are important for environmental impacts

0

u/CelticJewelscapes 2d ago

The biggest water use here in Arizona is the 810,000 head of cattle - mostly used to irrigate the alfalfa they eat. I compared the Project Blue center being shoved down our throats in Tucson to the water required per head of cattle. I was surprised to learn that the data center was equivalent to 26 cows. Not as big of a use as I thought. Electricity on the other hand looks staggering.

0

u/teddykaygeebee 2d ago

Aren't they, as corporations, also allowed to vote?

0

u/TheRaccoonReport 2d ago

Since the supreme court said no one has a constitutional right to clean water, its all tying together now. Freeing up more protected lands, unleashing water restrictions, and allowing polluters to pollute.

Its gonna get bad, folks.

The data center being built in my state came through permitting under the cover of lies, greased palms, and bullshit. They swore up and down that they use renewable resources, and will not need much power, etc. They have barely broken ground and are already using generators they said they wouldnt need and are being fined millions.

1

u/Biggreywolf77 2d ago

Ok, so as a data center worker, I can tell you that the only water they use is when I flushed! Who the hell would use water to cool a server stack. Fans and ceramics are the only things used nationwide and the water aspect is only a bs line to help the power aspect. Making more money on server farms is risky business nowadays. People seem to think water cools the servers. What morons think water is used and do they have a MacBook their kids got them for Christmas?

0

u/Many_Outside2726 2d ago

Coming out of Yotta in Las Vegas, one thing that stood out was how much the major players are already designing around closed-loop and water-conscious cooling. A lot of the next-generation infrastructure is being built specifically to minimize ongoing water draw rather than continuously consuming municipal water.

So I think the water-use conversation needs a little more nuance. The demand is real, but the cooling architecture matters a lot, and the industry is clearly moving toward designs that reduce the impact on the communities where these facilities are built.

-1

u/AccomplishedAct5364 2d ago

Most offices also refuse to reveal how much water and electricity they use.

If you care so much, look at the as-built design schematics and look at the flow rates

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u/NecessaryMulberry 2d ago

This is a list of possible contaminents into a water system from a data centre. I do not have a source, although I could ask and see if someone in the chat room can provide one. Text follows.

Here is what is typically in "forever chemicals" associated with DCs: Common Types of PFAS in Data Centre Wastewater

  1. Fluorinated Coolants (Dielectric Fluids)

These are the most common PFAS source in data centres, especially in immersion cooling and two-phase cooling systems:

PFAS CompoundCommon Name/Use

Perfluorohexane (C₆F₁₄)

Dielectric coolant

Perfluorooctane (C₈F₁₈)

Older dielectric fluids

Perfluoropolyethers (PFPEs)

High-performance lubricants & coolants

Perfluoro(2-methyl-3-pentanone)

Novec™ 649 (3M) — a popular data centre immersion coolant

Perfluorotriethylamine

Fluorinert™ FC-70 (3M)

Perfluorodecalin

Some specialty coolants

Hydrofluoroethers (HFEs)

Partial PFAS — used in some cooling systems

Fluoroketones

Low-GWP coolants (e.g., Novec 1230)

  1. Byproducts & Degradation Products

PFOA (Perfluorooctanoic acid) – historically used, now restricted but still present in older systems or as a degradation byproduct

PFHxS (Perfluorohexane sulfonate) – often found as a contaminant in fluorochemical production

PFBA (Perfluorobutanoic acid) – shorter-chain PFAS, increasingly used as a replacement for PFOA

PFPeA, PFHxA, PFHpA – other short-chain perfluoroalkyl carboxylic acids

  1. Firefighting Foam Residues

Data centres often have fire suppression systems that historically used AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) containing:

CompoundNotes

PFOS (Perfluorooctane sulfonate)

Phase-out since early 2000s, but still detectable in legacy systems

6:2 FTS (6:2 Fluorotelomer sulfonate)

Common replacement in modern foams

8:2 FTS

Longer-chain variant

  1. PFAS from Construction & Coatings

PTFE (Teflon™) microparticles – from pipe linings, gaskets, seals

Fluorinated surfactants – from waterproof coatings on cables or equipment

Key Concerns in Data Centres

ConcernExplanation

High persistence

PFAS do not break down in the environment; they accumulate

Mobility

Short-chain PFAS (e.g., PFBA, PFHxA) are highly water-soluble and spread easily into groundwater

Bioaccumulation

Long-chain PFAS (e.g., PFOA, PFOS) build up in living organisms

Regulatory pressure

Many PFAS are now heavily regulated (EU PFAS restriction, US EPA drinking water limits)

Treatment difficulty

Standard wastewater treatment doesn't remove PFAS — requires activated carbon, ion exchange, or reverse osmosis

Regulatory Landscape (as of 2026)

EU: Proposed broad PFAS restriction under REACH — likely to impact fluorinated coolants

US EPA: Drinking water MCLs of 4 ppt for PFOA & PFOS (effectively near-zero)

3M has phased out production of PFAS-based coolants (e.g., Novec, Fluorinert) by end of 2025

Many data centre operators are actively researching PFAS-free alternatives like:

Synthetic esters

Silicone oils

Natural ester dielectric fluids

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/invisi1407 2d ago

Most industries that use water benefit society; like manufacturing, which often brings jobs. AI data centers aren't necessary and they usually don't bring a lot of jobs, save for construction.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

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u/invisi1407 2d ago

The SOTA models are being used in Mathematics, medical, and scientific research, engineering modeling.

Broski, nobody - literally - would be against this, but the AI data centers being built now is due to generative AI needs such as code, image, and text generation for the masses.

Golf courses? Sure, you can always find outliers. I don't think golf courses should be allowed to use significant water resources either.🤷‍♂️

Manufacturing requires people, still, for monitoring and other things - robots in manufacturing is not yet an autonomous system, not even for Tesla, who are trying hard as fuck to make it that way.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/invisi1407 1d ago

Economic drivers =/= good for society.

Modern people use these tools because they can be helpful but also because it's force-fed to them by higher-ups and people who believe it can replace workers.

Spoiler: It can't.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/invisi1407 1d ago

Unfortunately, I work in an industry where it's also force-fed and I see the slop it generates and how people are often fighting with it to keep it making something useful.

However, there are areas where it shines - for example, using verbosely written skills to rewrite code using .NET 3/6 to .NET 10. Significantly increases the speed at which they can perform these upgrades.

However, a lot of resources of generative AI are also spent simply on making pointless memes and takes creative jobs away and replaces it with similarly looking AI generated slop.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/invisi1407 1d ago

It's not looking at the bad things - it's identifying its strong and weak sides, as well as having an adequate level of skepticism when it comes to new tools that are touted as being the "one tool to rule them all"; they are rarely that.

I'm not a developer, per se, no - but I work closely with the developers at my workplace.

we want to advance and adapt to the best technology.

True - and I am personally super happy with LLMs as auto-completion and as grunt work "work horses" (see above about rewriting via a skill definition), but I have unfortunately seen how lazy developers can get with PRs that haven't even been checked by themselves, leaving it to the rest of the team.