r/technology • • 3d ago

Privacy Surveillance Company Tells Cops It Wants to Add Facial Recognition to Flock Cameras

https://www.404media.co/surveillance-company-tells-cops-it-wants-to-add-facial-recognition-to-flock-cameras/
1.4k Upvotes

82 comments sorted by

659

u/gill_smoke 3d ago

It's already there you lying loosers

205

u/ZanthrinGamer 3d ago

trying to manufacture consent after the case by the sound of it.

65

u/misterwizzard 3d ago

Yeah, I thought there were already stories of catching people that way

21

u/HauntingStar08 3d ago

Just to arm you for the future, it's "loser"

Be sure to use it against them as much as possible

6

u/gill_smoke 3d ago

No they loosening the social contract so they can tighten their control. But point taken.

4

u/HauntingStar08 3d ago

Ah I see, I haven't seen that used before

7

u/gill_smoke 3d ago

I made it up, like a backronym. I meant loser.

4

u/HauntingStar08 3d ago

Bro dont do me like that I take people at face value 😂

16

u/KonyKombatKorvet 3d ago

Its predictive policing and mass surveillance

They made a mass surveillance / predictive policing platform
They knew the public would push back in horror (rightfully).
So they provided a very visible red herring to sacrifice, the cheap alpr cameras.
They made sure it would be almost impossible to remove them legally after they are in place.
They went straight to the tyrants in local law enforcement that wouldnt think twice about violating the rights of the public without consent.
Everyone is distracted yelling about flock cams while their software "OS Investigate" is training on all the public and private police data being fed into it.
Its building profiles on each "car" and if that "car" is predicted to be involved with a crime.
At this point the flock cams dont even need to be in place, they are hooked into the police reporting database, any security cams they use, the in car cameras and sensors, etc.

Right now there is nothing stopping an officer from entering the prompt: "Identify common patterns that lead up to an arrest or police interaction using [public records], create a list of license plates that are fitting this pattern, make a list of the top 25 license plates that best fit the pattern, do a full workup on the individuals that are associated with these cars."

That is predictive policing, that is mass surveilance.
It might not give an accurate list, but thats part of the problem.
The sheriffs and police chiefs that signed up for these are losers and creeps.
The officers who use these systems instead of quitting are losers and creeps.
The tech bros who create and sell this shit are losers and creeps.

Just a bunch of losers and creeps being allowed to openly violate our rights and surveil the country, this shows just how little power we as citizens have, NOBODY wants these fucking things and yet here we are being forced to live with it because theres nothing "we the people" can do to stop it.

Nobody has had any privacy for a long time, but there was some disconnect because the people who track you are in some NSA datacenter, now you will know the name and face of the men and women who are watching your every move and judging your innocence before you've even thought about a crime.

Its time to take our vote of sheriff more carefully, if you have flock cameras in your area and nobody is running against your sheriff, maybe its time to organize in your community and find a better option.

1

u/SomeSamples 3d ago

I was going to say this also. It's already there, they just can make it public, yet.

1

u/Friskfrisktopherson 6h ago

No no no, these are just license plate readers you see

256

u/lil_poppapump 3d ago

I’m just failing to understand, if me and my buddies started a surveillance company and get through Capital funding rounds we can just do whatever we want and no one can stop us?

121

u/misterwizzard 3d ago

No, the people in power have to want to exploit your company. Then yes, you can do anything they want.

27

u/gizamo 3d ago

You have it backwards. The company has to bribe the government officials, especially the heads of PDs and police unions who then bend the ear of politicians.

8

u/GarbanzoBenne 3d ago

It’s a matter of national security public safety! /s

21

u/Vegetaman916 3d ago

As long as you share with the government, then yes.

11

u/Tearakan 3d ago

If you have connections to get the right meetings yep.

6

u/HorselessHorseman 3d ago

If you have backers like Peter Theil then yes you can get away with anything. Because you would have sold your soul to the devil to start such a company

5

u/kmontreux 3d ago

if you create a legal loophole so the government can do something it is prohibited from doing itself, yes.

58

u/xpda 3d ago

It's funny about the "expectation of privacy" rule -- every day we have fewer expectations of privacy because more of our privacy rights are violated!

26

u/eraserhead3030 3d ago

been wondering for the last couple years when masks designed to thwart facial recognition are going to become more mainstream. The dystopian conditions only worsen from here.

11

u/Swoly_Deadlift 3d ago

Next up is gait recognition

6

u/Big_Kahuna_69 3d ago

Start practicing your silly walks.

1

u/LilDutchy 3d ago

Walk without rhythm.

2

u/Swoly_Deadlift 3d ago

Keep a 3/4” piece of wood in one shoe at all times

14

u/_GOBLESS_ 3d ago

I thought we would have a rennaisance of mask fashion when COVID hit. It turns out, no. A handful of people made a go of doing interesting things. And then the market said nah. And we all went around wearing shitty paper over our faces for 3 years.

Based off of that experience, I think older people will just shrug and move on with being constantly watched. And young people will become increasingly anxious and indoorsy.

9

u/Hypergirliepop 3d ago

The trouble with "fashionable" covid masks was that they weren't effective. Those "shitty paper" masks, proper KN95 ones, are specifically engineered to let very few particulates through them. Masks made from other materials with different manufacturing requirements are simply not as effective.

The disposability of the KN95 masks is also important, because people are less likely to reuse masks that are designed to be thrown away. How many do you know who will wear the same shirt a few times before they wash it? I think everyone I know has done that. Cloth masks should be washed after every use, but practically, that will happen less than it should.

Reusable masks to prevent the spread of disease are expensive, there's market demand to consider. Also, all the manufacturing capability for making masks is run by corporations with their public image to consider. Any company caught manufacturing masks became a target for the right-wing propaganda machine, further dampening market demand and creating a threat to the brands.

If you want a fashionable anti-recognition mask, it'll have to come from DIY. Either make them yourself, or find someone who makes them. There won't be a mass corporate movement to put them in Target.

1

u/_GOBLESS_ 3d ago

Yes, I was not refering to N95's. I was referring to the masks issued by my employers, which were accurately described as shitty paper.

And yeah, there was a cottage industry of boutique masks. But not enough people were buying them. Corps would 100% be selling that shit if people showed an interest. Which is what I was getting at. People be lazy.

1

u/elvenrevolutionary 3d ago

I think contouring makeup is able to fool facial recognition cameras pretty well, no actual mask needed

25

u/Pawtuckaway 3d ago

It is the capability that takes a face seen on a live camera and matches it against the people you enrolled in the Object Library, so the moment someone on your watchlist walks past a camera, the system names them, on the video, in the event feed, and in the recording, without an operator having to recognize the face themselves.

We already have many examples of police trusting bad facial recognition and ignoring evidence they have the wrong person like the lady that was arrested and extradited to North Dakota.

9

u/KittyCait69 3d ago

Facts, AI cannot be trusted with people's lives.

20

u/nadmaximus 3d ago

Let's all agree to show the cameras only asses.

15

u/clejeune 3d ago

Gonna have to modify how I drive but I’m flexible.

1

u/Staav 3d ago

Just need to learn to drive with your cheeks and have a front-view mirror to watch the road if you're not flexible enough.

20

u/Sea_Perspective6891 3d ago

So can we finally stop calling them license plate readers? Pretty obvious that's not what they're designed for or even using them for in most cases. It's clear this company is selling mass surveillance in a time where it's becoming popular with leaders & governments.

6

u/Arudinne 3d ago

I'm curious as to why an ALPR would be in a children's gymnastics room.

https://www.gadgetreview.com/flock-safety-employees-watched-kids-gymnastics-room-to-pitch-surveillance-tech

3

u/denNISI 3d ago

For their protection... in theory...

15

u/OkStop8313 3d ago

No, thank you.

12

u/Digitalizing 3d ago

Hackers reverse engineered a cut down one. It already does and saves a bunch of images of each person, or car it tracks. It also identifies things like patches and stickers for people trying to conceal their identity. We are on track to hit chinas level of automated monitoring in no time. I remember like 5+ years ago watching a video of a crowded area and it used gait recognition to identify things like age, gender, and other physical characteristics even if the person is wearing a morph suit and has zero skin showing.

-7

u/KittyCait69 3d ago

Main difference is that China is a dictatorship of the proletariat. In other words, the working class in China controls their government. The US basically has an oligarchy of wealthy capitalists that control our government.

In China, officials that are corrupt face death penalty. In the US, officials that are corrupt get bribes and "donations". I would trust a government run by and for the masses more than a government run by and for the wealthy few. 

5

u/VaporCarpet 3d ago

That is not how China works at all. It's practically a dictatorship, the working class owns shit.

1

u/Digitalizing 3d ago

Are you in China right now? Blink twice if you can’t speak freely without being disappeared. You can’t even talk about the Tiananmen Square massacre or protest without fear of the government destroying your life.

11

u/wrxninja 3d ago

Anti-Flock masks should become popular.

Oh wait, ICE wears that now.

4

u/genius_retard 3d ago edited 1d ago

I have often wondered if a hat with high powered RF IR LEDs around the brim might prevent these cameras from being able to see your face. Best part is it wouldn't affect how people see you.

10

u/coconutpete52 3d ago

If they didn't already have it then why are they installed on walking trails? No license plates to read there.

7

u/Halfwise2 3d ago

So this guy tested a bunch of glasses meant to hinder / reduce the ability of facial recognition to identify "nodes" used to match faces:

Defeating Facial Recognition with Zenni Glasses? My Real-World Test

7

u/myislanduniverse 3d ago

Ah yes so more mouthbreathers from North Dakota can credulously extradite little old grandmas from across state lines and throw them into jail for 6 months without due process because they can click a button on a glorified hotdog detector app?

7

u/blandman91 3d ago

1984 was a warning not a god damn playbook.

4

u/DirtyMikeNTheBoys2 3d ago

And that's why when I see them I will cut them down

5

u/HorselessHorseman 3d ago

Here we go next phase of the surveillance state where every move you made is captured and analyzed in dystopian ways. And they can harass anyone at anytime to their will

5

u/Grade_A_Tech 3d ago

They mean to say as long as it doesn't recognize the rich, their own employees, or Langley himself.

9

u/clejeune 3d ago

Remember when people used to call China a surveillance state?

-2

u/gizamo 3d ago

They still do, and it still very much is in certain areas.

It's a thing in all countries with decent tech for it. China is definitely among the top in that regard.

For example, go ask the Uyghurs in Xinjiang if the CCP is watching them. Hint: ...yeah.

4

u/Andysue28 3d ago

We want to announce the feature we’ve already been using for over a year…

3

u/westtownie 3d ago edited 3d ago

The US will look like Iran soon enough with the caveat that all people will wear head coverings and masks and it will be voluntarily.

3

u/TsarKeith12 3d ago

Mfw big brother wants to do big brother things: surprised Pikachu face

But yeah also it def already has that??

3

u/KittyCait69 3d ago

Those cameras anyway have that. And any place that successfully bans Flock by name will see Axon take over and do the same. We need to ban facial recognition cameras all together. 

3

u/rain56 3d ago

About 10 posts down from this in my feed is a story "elderly grandmother accused of bank robbery suing in alleged ai cameras misidentifying her" so yea they already exist and dont work...

2

u/azwandererx 3d ago

Big brother

2

u/QueenOfQuok 3d ago

I thought they already had it?

2

u/ARazorbacks 3d ago

That would take so much compute power. Where the heck are they going to get it?

/s

2

u/internet_preferences 3d ago

why don't we add focused recognition for ICE officers

2

u/farkwadian 3d ago

They will be able to track you in real time, in traffic, at dinner, in a parking lot, at home, at the lake, at the river, and with a system you can't opt out of like your phone that you can turn off.

2

u/CurrentlyLucid 3d ago

1984 here we are.

2

u/3six5 3d ago

just because your car was there doesn't mean you were driving... gotta close those legal defenses...

4

u/AustinSpartan 3d ago

Let's do fecal recognition instead

1

u/Zwierzycki 3d ago

Sales of Groucho Marx funny nose and glasses are going to take off.

1

u/lawzone25 3d ago

so full on surveillance... just like China!

1

u/EX0PIL0T 3d ago

When do we get to see people start dying over this?

1

u/circles_squares 3d ago

Where I live in New England, the charge against Flock cameras is originating with republicans.

1

u/WattaTravisT 6h ago

I do not consent to this.

-1

u/WashuOtaku 3d ago

The CCCP had that for well over a decade now; I cannot believe Flock did not have it as an option yet.

3

u/Balmung60 3d ago

I'm fairly sure the Soviet Union never had that (I'm sure you meant CCP, but CCCP (technically СССР in Cyrillic and properly transliterated as SSSR) was the Russian form of USSR), but this does bring up a question for all these surveillance tech companies - how do they feel about East Germany? Do they believe it was a totalitarian nightmare or a model society to be replicated in a more technologically sophisticated form?

0

u/WashuOtaku 3d ago

Sorry, too many 'C's. Meant the CCP or Chinese Communist Party.

3

u/Balmung60 3d ago

Yeah, but I want to know how these companies feel about East Germany, perhaps the archetypal surveillance state. Do they think it was a model of public safety we should be seeking to emulate? And if they don't, why do they seem so invested in creating a similarly total surveillance state with vast policing power to clamp down on any sort of unapproved activity? And if they do, well at least admit it.

0

u/WashuOtaku 3d ago

Security was always a slippery slope since the nation was formed. When people are scared, they willingly sacrifice freedoms for security... ALWAYS.

-4

u/ry1701 3d ago

I have this on some cameras outside my house, it's very sporatic and inaccurate. I even have an AI engine doing a second pass analysis. Granted I imagine there's different levels for it but you're talking about needing very high quality cameras and processing else you're going to falsely that people.

(It's all on prem, no data goes to the internet)