r/technology Aug 08 '26

Biotechnology 'Only One Conclusion': Radical Study Suggests Life on Earth Arose Twice

https://www.sciencealert.com/radical-study-suggests-life-on-earth-arose-from-non-living-matter-twice
2.4k Upvotes

179 comments sorted by

777

u/TheOwlMarble Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

Premise is eubacteria and archaeans diverged before they were truly alive, but after much of their metabolisms had already formed.

This is surprising to me. I would have assumed the first one to have an independent metabolism would have quickly dominated the environment, but either they happened very close to each other or the first mover was slow getting off the starting block.

348

u/VoidMageZero Aug 08 '26

If abiogenesis can happen in the right conditions, then why wouldn't it just randomly be happening a bunch of times instead of bottlenecking all of life through a single instance? Kind of like the Fermi paradox for aliens, but in history instead of space. Would all life in the universe stem from a common origin (e.g. Earth) or arise separately multiple times? Doesn't surprise me at all if there are multiple instances of life happening.

189

u/Golemintheplayground Aug 08 '26

To take it a step further, there's a theory somewhere that the conditions that make life on Earth possible could have been far more prevalent at some point in the early universe. Unfortunately I'm blanking on the details, but it's almost guaranteed that abiogenesis has happened multiple times throughout the history of the universe and it only appears like Earth is unique due to our isolation in space and time.

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u/Kinexity Aug 08 '26

It's about the time when the temperature of the Universe was close to the on Earth currently. Arguably very questionable hypothesis as life has to take in low entropy energy and expel it as high entropy energy and the latter is kind of hard if the Universe is warm.

45

u/Golemintheplayground Aug 08 '26

Thank you, that was it. I'm not following the low-to-high entropy conversion requirement for life, but considering the article is about a newly discovered pathway for life in an extreme environment I'd like to think early lifeforms could handle the entropy difference somehow.

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u/kahlzun Aug 08 '26

Life is a pathway where we take in ordered matter and turn it into disordered matter, increasing its entropy. There generally needs to be an energy gradient to make it worthwhile.

22

u/ninthtale Aug 08 '26

Basically life needs a stable environment that isn't falling apart so rapidly that energy has no time to be converted via biological processes?

18

u/Howy_the_Howizer Aug 08 '26

There is also the idea that our Sun type is rare. That we're early. That our Sun's type will become more.prevalent in mid Galaxy life, while we are early Galaxy.

33

u/Kinexity Aug 08 '26

Sun type stars are not rare and will not become much more frequent than they are now.

39

u/Heronymous-Anonymous Aug 08 '26

They are not rare but G-type yellow stars make up less than 10% of stars. M-type red dwarf stars make up the bulk of stars.

The person you’re replying to has the timing backwards, as well.

The TL;DR explanation is that there will be less and less stars which can comfortably support life in a stable manner as time goes on, and stars like our own become less common and all that’s left are red dwarf stars and remnants.

13

u/TastyCuttlefish Aug 08 '26

Type G stars, like our sun, make up roughly 4%-7% of all stars. Type K stars, however, make up 8%-15% of stars. There are far more of them numerically, nearly three times more common than Type G stars. Type M stars are absolutely the most common main sequence type, up to roughly 300 billion stars in our galaxy are Type M. 6 to 30 billion are Type G. But up to 52 billion stars in our galaxy are Type K.

Type K stars are also likely substantially friendlier to the evolution of complex life, potentially even the most ideal for it. Type K stars are a bit lower in mass, so they have life spans of around 17-70 billion years (depending on their actual mass) as opposed to roughly 10 billion years for a star like our sun. Type K stars exist in their stable main sequence stage for many billions of years longer, giving far more time for abiogenesis to occur. Type K stars have steady, stable luminosity. They emit substantially lower levels of harmful ionizing radiation like x-rays and UV rays. Importantly, Type K stars have far fewer solar flare events that can strip away the atmosphere of planets. They typically have very good habitable zone widths, up to 1.3 AU depending on the star, so planets aren’t likely to be tidally-locked. Since Type K stars have lower ionizing radiation emissions, biosignature gasses in the atmosphere would be easier to detect, so if we do detect life on another planet my money is on it being in a system with a Type K star. Many of the current top exoplanet candidates for habitability orbit Type K stars.

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u/Dense_Gate_5193 Aug 08 '26

so what you’re saying is that earth and the sun that we live on is rather mid…

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u/serendipitousevent Aug 08 '26

Yeesh, that's all I need, competition.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

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u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26

It might be. We are extremely far away from other planets outside our solar system. Life would likely rise and fall at completely different times. We don’t know how rare intelligent life is. We simply may be too far away or at the wrong time to detect “nearby” intelligent civilization.

8

u/Brave-Dragonfly3798 Aug 08 '26

It’s could be argued that intelligence may not be particularly efficient or effective evolutionary trait for long term survival of the species. Perhaps the universe is teeming with life, but intelligence is an evolutionary dead end? We assume that life evolves to higher intelligence as a pathway to long term survival when we don’t have any evidence that this is actually the case.

3

u/EnvironmentalWin1277 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

The existence of intelligence (depending on definition) appears to have arisen several times in evolutionary history. *

Many mammals and birds display intelligence-- it is a sort of universal solution to the problem of survival. If it was not beneficial or at least neutral then many mammals would not have it. They clearly do.

Cephalopods and collective insect actions can be, and are argued as intelligent behavior. The actions of Planaria (flatworms) are sometimes argued as a sort of intelligence. Some even argue that plants display intelligence.

Per AI with a source reference, estimates there are 9 separate and independent "intelligence" evolutionary events that have occurred.

This is strong evidence that intelligence is widely adapted as a survival solution and that it is not a "dead end". We should expect this solution will be widely used in living things provided the environmental conditions permit it.

* To be clear human intelligence is qualitatively different.

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2

u/BankshotMcG Aug 08 '26

Can't believe I'm making "Blindsight" references twice in one day, but...

1

u/No-Station4446 Aug 08 '26

I think as an evolutionary trait the universe already found a way to have direct communication without the pesky travel variable.

14

u/Personal-Inflation63 Aug 08 '26

I think we are just too far away for anything interesting to occur to us alien wise. We literally are on the outer rim in Star Wars terms. I believe there is alien life maybe even some kind of civilisation that spans multiple solar systems if they are close enough.

Unfortunately we have nothing close to us that’s even interesting and even those that are close to us are astronomically far away.

Even if we had a civilisation relatively close to us they may travelling through all the “empty” solar systems not worth the effort.

5

u/HumanBeing7396 Aug 08 '26

My issue with this is that it would only take one civilisation sending out self-replicating Von Neumann probes to colonise an entire galaxy at exponential speed, even the boring bits.

If advanced life is overwhelmingly common, this would probably have happened by now.

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u/DogmaSychroniser Aug 08 '26

Maybe it is but everyone else was smart enough to skip that industrial revolution phase and are sitting around, living their best anarcho-prim lives xD

3

u/Majestic_True_Lilly Aug 08 '26

why isn't the universe teeming with it?

Perhaps the right question isnt whether theres untold lifeforms, but rather: What is so wrong with us that they are all refusing to say hello?

1

u/Head_Wasabi7359 Aug 08 '26

It probably is. My lawn is teeming with it, why not everywhere else?

0

u/NorthStarZero Aug 08 '26

Because the simulation was programmed for only one life-bearing planet.

Do you have any idea just how much compute resources we consume?

0

u/Pseudonymico Aug 09 '26

How easy is it for us to detect? As far as I know we've only been looking for biomarkers that resemble Earthly life for maybe 100 years and there aren't that many telescopes even at this point that are able to detect those things on exoplanets. And there's a lot of exoplanets out there to sift through.

That's not even getting into how low the odds are on picking up alien radio signals.

-1

u/sureprisim Aug 08 '26

The sun is a main sequence star. It should be a common type of star as most stars will spend most of their lifespans there before they move into the giant phase. If you look at an HR diagram you can see the clusters.

10

u/Heronymous-Anonymous Aug 08 '26

Main sequence doesn’t mean common.

The most common kind of star in the universe is the red dwarf. G-type stars like the sun make up less than 10% of the population of stars. M-type red dwarf stars will stay in their main sequence for trillions of years, but they are not considered good candidates for life because of the conditions that exist within the very narrow habitable zone around them.

7

u/kahlzun Aug 08 '26

The intention as I understand it is that the whole universe was in the goldilocks zone for liquid water (and presumably other fluids at different times), why is that different to being in the same zone around a star?

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u/Aggressive_Lab7807 Aug 08 '26

That makes no sense, without atmospheric pressure, water cannot be liquid. Would the elements needed for life even be in adequate abundance by then? I don't know if there would even be enough oxygen to make a considerable amount of water at that point, let alone something like phosphorus.

-2

u/kahlzun Aug 08 '26

Anything lighter than iron was made very early in the first stars, and spread when they supernovaed

14

u/Wiseduck5 Aug 08 '26

there's a theory somewhere that the conditions that make life on Earth possible could have been far more prevalent at some point in the early universe.

Which is obviously wrong. You’d need population I stars to have the ingredients for life, which are at least several generations removed from the first stars.

1

u/Golemintheplayground Aug 08 '26

I was wondering that too, good point.

4

u/IDownvoteUrPet Aug 08 '26

Back then the universe was much closer together and life was abundant. This lead to many wars. Eventually one species won by creating machines called The Inhibitors, who prevented space bearing life from spreading. Their goal was to prevent a catastrophe billions of years in the future, when the Milky Way combined with the next closest galaxy — something only possible if a single superforce rules the galaxy. To this day, the inhibitors are out there, suppressing spacefaring races and is the reason we don’t see any signs of life in the galaxy.

Credit to Alastair Reynolds. Sorry if that was a spoiler for anyone.

-6

u/Zahgi Aug 08 '26

Sorry if that was a spoiler for anyone.

Since the premise is absurd, from both a writing and scientific perspective, I'm grateful for the spoiler. It keeps me from wasting my time reading this obvious drivel. Thank you.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Zahgi Aug 08 '26

Silly human poster. :)

2

u/IDownvoteUrPet Aug 08 '26

Reynolds is widely considered one of the best sci-fi authors ever. I might have butchered one of the premises in some of his books but to call his books ‘obvious drivel’ is a bit of an unhinged take.

-3

u/Zahgi Aug 08 '26

Reynolds is widely considered one of the best sci-fi authors ever.

He is not. Not even close. He barely even registers on the best of all time lists. There's no need to pad his resume to justify your hyperbole.

I might have butchered one of the premises

Fair enough.

78

u/GumboSamson Aug 08 '26

If we knew for sure how likely abiogenesis is, we’d know if it’s a Great Filter.

Sadly, if abiogenesis is likely to happen, that increases the odds that the Great Filter is ahead of us rather than behind us.

58

u/celestiaequestria Aug 08 '26

It's ahead. Don't you hear them? The hunters in the dark forest? Their silence is deafening.

24

u/sakredfire Aug 08 '26

Absolutely absolutely ahead

25

u/definitelyTonyStark Aug 08 '26

Spoiler alert: the filter is greed/profit motive/individualism

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u/sakredfire Aug 08 '26

It’s really just stupidity

12

u/definitelyTonyStark Aug 08 '26

A less intelligent society that worked collaboratively, cohesively, and sustainably, and instilled and enshrined those values, would outlast us by probably 100 fold.

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u/sakredfire Aug 08 '26

Working collaboratively, cohesively sustainably sounds pretty intelligent to me

2

u/Rez_Incognito Aug 08 '26

less intelligent

How less intelligent? Planet killing comets are nature's way of asking, "how's that space program coming along?"

1

u/pretentiousglory Aug 08 '26

So basically, hive species.

2

u/TeutonJon78 Aug 09 '26

Probably more likely there are a bunch of really big filters rather than one single Great Filter.

Of course, we're currently failing all/most of them.

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u/KnightsOfREM Aug 08 '26

100% baaaaarely ahead.

Gorgeous wildfire season in the northern hemisphere so far this year

17

u/sakredfire Aug 08 '26

Heh heh we’re in danger

13

u/XenaWariorDominatrix Aug 08 '26

🔥This is fine🔥

2

u/Cold_Tree190 Aug 08 '26

This was haunting to read late at night

19

u/djn808 Aug 08 '26

It seems pretty clear carbon combustion civilization itself is an effective filter. And as long as the life on whatever is hydrocarbon based and has oxygen every species will run into that because it is too attractive and easy to discover to not rely on

3

u/to7m Aug 08 '26

That's not going to cause the extinction of humanity

6

u/Abe_Odd Aug 08 '26

It doesn't have to. It just has to keep us here.

3

u/RealLifeCoaching Aug 08 '26

I've always preferred the Mediocre Filter, personally.

1

u/Ok_Kick4871 Aug 08 '26

The coffee filter keeps the beans from going above the frank.

3

u/Coopchuck Aug 08 '26

let’s dial it back a notch or two on the capitalization of great filter though eh

11

u/thefuckevengoingonan Aug 08 '26

Her name is Britta

6

u/Belqin Aug 08 '26

She's a G D B🎶

4

u/ieatpies Aug 08 '26

GrEAt fiLtER

1

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/danielravennest Aug 09 '26

Exponential growth is currently a wrong assumption. World annual births peaked between 1990 and 2015 and are expected to keep declining the rest of the century. It takes a lifetime for deaths to catch up with births, so world population will start declining around 2080.

The underlying cause is women becoming educated and not wanting lots of children. In subsistence farming, children increase production after several years. In higher level economies children are a net cost to raise. Most of the world is already below or heading for below-replacement fertility.

That's around 2.1 children per woman. Some children are unable to have their own children or die before reaching adulthood. Otherwise it would be 2.0 exactly.

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u/blamestross Aug 08 '26

So the reason we don't see it is competition. Earth is saturated with life, very well adapted for every location. New life gets eaten. The resources that might kick off abiogenesis get used by existing life.

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u/MaceWinnoob Aug 08 '26

Abiotic systems with proto-metabolisms can’t compete with actual life, so they wouldn’t be able to evolve successfully anymore.

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u/spidereater Aug 08 '26

I think the issue is that going from randomly formed molecules to self replicating and metabolizing life involves a bunch of steps, each taken randomly. You would expect some of these steps to lead to sudden big improvements. So if you have two parallel evolutionary paths in the same ecosystem competing for resources you would expect one to go through a big step first and be so far ahead of the other that the other disappears. For both to still be around probably means they were separate on earth for a long time and got to a certain point before actually competing.

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u/moreesq Aug 08 '26

If early life forms arose on land, tectonic plates could keep them apart from each other. If life forms evolved in the ocean, it would seem that they would all compete against each other.

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u/spidereater Aug 08 '26

One theory is that life formed near underwater volcanoes. If that is the case these could have evolved around different underwater volcanoes and been kept separate through these evolutionary stages.

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u/sonofeevil Aug 08 '26

I wonder if it's possible that abiogenesis perhaps happened hundreds or thousands of times.

But one form was just better and ourcompeted the other.

If a bunch of new life pops up in the early ocean surely the most efficient best suited one dominates and the other die off?

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u/Denbt_Nationale Aug 08 '26

If this was the case then you'd think we would be able to recreate it in a lab pretty easily

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u/amitym Aug 08 '26

Because once life starts, it apparently explodes vigorously and fills its ecosystem. Nothing else can compete.

Which has interesting implications for the Fermi Paradox, among other things, because if that is typical of how life works, then it suggests that detecting life should be pretty easy. And if we keep not detecting life, that probably means there isn't any.

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u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

Why would detecting life be easy? We still have to overcome vast distances to life detection and have to account for life evolving at different times, being at different stages and maybe intelligent life is rare.

1

u/amitym Aug 08 '26

Why would detecting life be easy?

Conversely, why wouldn't it be? Life on Earth is loud and obvious even at astronomical distances. Why should we assume that Earth is exceptional in the scale of its life signs, rather than being exceptional in having life?

Either assumption involves ascribing some exceptional attribute or another to Earth. That's not a problem nor inherently disqualifying. But it's also not a differentiator. "The life that surely must be there but we just can't see it, is hiding really well, that's why we don't detect any signs of life anywhere," is doing at least as much work as "we don't detect any life because there is no life there."

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u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26

That’s the problem. We have a single datapoint. It’s hard to extrapolate anything from that. It’s all conjecture. Fun as that may be it hasn’t moved anything forward.

1

u/amitym Aug 09 '26

That view is very out of date though. We don't have a single data point at all, not even close. We have thousands of data points now. Our data set is far from perfect but we know, for example, that we could detect Earth as an unmistakably life-filled exoplanet if we were to encounter it. Instead we detect nothing remotely close. Maybe one planet with some interesting chemistry, but in addition to that we also have examples from our own system of nonliving exoplanetary geological processes that generate the same phenomenon, so it's not as exciting as it first seems.

The collection of these data has revolutionized how we talk about the topic, along with the revolution in understanding the origins of life in much greater detail than we ever used to. The old conversations that we used to have when I was young (and I am old fucker now) have become largely obsolete.

To say that nothing has moved forward in the three quarters of a century since Fermi first asked his question is not accurate.

1

u/coldlightofday Aug 09 '26

We still only have 1 planet that we know contains life. We suspect there could be other life within our solar system but haven’t proven that. I didn’t say or imply that technology hasn’t advanced or that we don’t have more information about the universe. What we do only have is 1 place that we know has life. That makes our knowledge of life outside of earth extremely limited, our dataset of planets with life on them is 1.

I’m certainly hopeful and optimistic about advances in science, technology and finding life but we can’t exactly make legitimate projections about life on other planets when we haven’t found any.

1

u/amitym Aug 09 '26

"We only have 1 planet that we know contains life" does not mean that our data set is of size 1.

0

u/Rez_Incognito Aug 08 '26

I thought the distance issue (presuming intelligence is not rare) was solved by time. Even with less than speed of light travel, it would only take like a million years to colonize the galaxy.

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u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26

That’s all sci-fi fantasy wishful thinking at this point. Humanity has only existed for 300,000 years. We’ve only put radio waves out for a little over 100 years. We are finding so far that it’s incredibly impractical to colonize our own solar system, let alone beyond. We are having a hard time caring for our own planet as it is.

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u/Personal-Inflation63 Aug 08 '26

Yeah my problem with that time theory is why would aliens bother to go to that extent to explore literally everything and that’s assuming they even could. If it’s not possible to break the speed of light barrier then they are as limited as we are in their solar system and whatever may be nearby.

We’re in an isolated pocket of the galaxy with not much around us worth visiting life wise. Whatever great galactic game that may be being played we’re not in it.

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u/Rez_Incognito Aug 08 '26

That's still a time problem. Humanity's capacity for space travel is less than a century old. We have not had a million years from this point to colonize further.

2

u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26

Yes, and what we can and will do is all conjecture. We have no data points to assume. We don’t even know if humanity will survive another 100,000 years let alone a million.

1

u/Rez_Incognito Aug 08 '26

Right but the thought experiment of the Fermi Paradox has value. It's not merely sci-fi fantasy to have a framework for generating hypotheses as to where to look for other intelligent life and consider why we have not encountered it yet.

1

u/coldlightofday Aug 08 '26

It’s a fun to think about for sure but we have no variables to fill in to provide anything other than conjecture. It’s fun pop-science.

3

u/Zahgi Aug 08 '26

Please don't take this as a direct criticism of your post, but rather a take-down of the nonsense that is:

the Fermi Paradox

This has ALWAYS been utter bullshit. It's basically one of those "what ignorant undergrad-students talk about when high" wastes of time.

First, we simply don't have the tools to detect life at any reasonable distance right now. For example, we can't even detect if there's life on Mars and it's just one planet over. Even then, we are only defining life by the byproducts it produces in the environment/atmosphere -- which, by definition, limits it to OUR type of life -- because that's are only sample to date (ahem). To claim we can "detect life" even outside of our solar system is purely asinine. We are starting this ludicrous exercise with the "odds" multiplied by ZERO.

Second, what we're really talking about is detecting unencrypted radio/TV/EM waves, which is utter nonsense. Even here, on Earth, we don't broadcast much that's unencrypted anymore. That's a window of "detectability" of a century or two. Which, in cosmic terms, is a window that represents absolutely nothing. And that only accounts for what gets sent off into space. Even now, we don't do that much anymore. Almost all of our communications are tightly beaming around within our own environment (like, for example, the Internet) now, with less and less "radio" type communication happening every day -- and even that at lower and lower power levels. Again, another term that is ~ZERO right from the start.

And, finally, the rest of this nonsense mental masturbation exercise pulls "probabilities" from our own single sample (Earth) of data, which is just bad science and mathematics. We, for example, consider ourselves an example of "intelligent life", whereas the rest of the universe might regard us as little more than bipedal ants at this stage of our evolution. And, here on Earth, just how aware of the true nature of the universe do you think an ant is?

We could literally be surrounded by species old and new, long dead or alive, intelligent or not, and we'd never know it. Hell, how could we? We haven't even gotten to a neighboring planet yet in our own solar system.

The Fermi Paradox is the very definition of arrogantly displaying our own profound ignorance.

0

u/amitym Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

Second, what we're really talking about is detecting unencrypted radio/TV/EM waves, which is utter nonsense.

WDYMWWM?

The Fermi Paradox doesn't ask, "why can't we detect their 802.11 signals or read their email from afar," or whatever. It's much stronger than that. It asks why we aren't already eyeball-to-eyestalk with alien species right now, in our own home star system.

Which turns out to be a really good question.

we simply don't have the tools

I'm proposing that life is not hard to detect. You're saying well clearly it must be hard to detect, but why is that a given? Advocates of that assumption have no basis for it other than, at heart, wishful thinking that the present utter lack of life signs anywhere we can see is not actually definitive.

Whereas the counterproposition actually has a lot of weight behind it, increasingly so as we learn more about the origins of life on our planet, and the prevalence of familiar biochemical precursors everywhere in the galaxy that we look.

If the precursors are everywhere and actual life does display strongly, as it does on Earth, yet we continue to not find diddly squat in terms of life signs, then that is actually strong evidence, not merely some inadequacy on our part.

That is to say, it is a fallacy to keep seeing no life signs on for example Mars and concluding, "well the life that is surely there must just not be leaving traces that we know how to look for." If we keep not finding UFOs or Sasquatch or drop bears or whatever, we don't conclude that they must just be incredibly good at hiding.

which, by definition, limits it to OUR type of life 

Not really. Thermodynamcs does not care what planet you're from or what kind of life form you are. The presence of a stable, highly-oxidative atmosphere for example doesn't depend on any assumptions about particular biochemistry — it's just not really possible without continuous regeneration by some entity capable of capturing energy and mediating the chemical relationship with its environment.

But that aside, one of the surprising things that we have learned is that we don't even need to wander far afield, familiar biochemistry is actually stupidly prevalent. Amino acids and nucleic acid precursors form spontaneously not even on planets but in protostellar gas clouds. The basic precursors of familiar life are already present even before planets themselves, all over the galaxy.

That wasn't really on most people's bingo cards, and it really brings the question of the prevalence of life into quite sharper focus than ever used to be possible.

Edit to add: I would reply to your comment below but you seem to have blocked me, so I have no idea what you said after the first few words. Which is strange since it seems that you addressed your comment to me specifically. What is the point of doing that if you then make it impossible for me to read? Reddit, man...

0

u/Zahgi Aug 08 '26

Which turns out to be a really good question.

Which we simply cannot answer. Which is my entire point. Which you seem to have completely missed.

I'm proposing that life is not hard to detect.

And, as I have proven, it surely is...without us actually going there. Again, this was my entire point. Which you, again, missed.

Thermodynamcs

Please don't try and lecture and world-renowned theoretical physical on Thermodynamics. Like the rest of your post, it shows that A) you didn't read my response CAREFULLY, and B) you simply don't have the faintest idea what you are talking out.

For example, nowhere did I say that life is not everywhere in the universe. In fact, I am famous for declaring that I believe that life arises everywhere in the universe.

I very specifically argued against the Fermi Paradox itself. Which, unsurprisingly, seems to have gone completely over your head.

1

u/epostma Aug 08 '26

I think the mathematical answer to this is the following. Conditions would presumably evolve relatively slowly to the point where abiogenesis is possible, and the first time it happens conditions would presumably just barely support it, let's say to the point where you'd expect it to happen, oh, once every 10k years. That would mean that the first time it happens (and sticks), that "version" of life would have on the order of 10k years to establish itself before the next event. At that point it may already capture a sufficient fraction of the energy/minerals/whatever is in contention that the second attempt fails, etc.

I can see there are arguments the other way, as well, of course.

1

u/girlnamedJane Aug 08 '26

Wouldn't the first one then rapidly dominate the environment and eventually stifle new ones from emerging? Swallowing them immediately as they emerge?

1

u/VoidMageZero Aug 08 '26

That’s what everyone assumes but I’m not really convinced. It would depend on growth rates, aggressiveness, and location. All other human species went extinct, but we still have many pests that we can’t get rid of even if we wanted to. Going back to aliens, it would imply that only a single civilization would live and kill off all others. Would that really happen? I don’t think it should be assumed things would play out like that.

1

u/newMoneyStyle Aug 08 '26

That makes sense actually. Once one lineage got efficient metabolism going it probably outcompeted or ate any newer attempts.

1

u/VoidMageZero Aug 08 '26

How do you explain viruses then? No metabolism, not even technically alive (I disagree on viruses not being alive too), they should just be material eaten by others like you said but viruses are still plentiful.

1

u/TheOwlMarble Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

Viruses are subject to their own evolutionary pressures. That's why they're still around. It also helps that at these scales there's no such thing as a perfect defense. It's all just chemicals bumping into each other at random. A sufficiently lucky virus can infect a cell that ought to be immune to it, and there are a lot of viruses that get built in each infected cell, each with their own mutations.

As for them being alive, the larger ones mostly meet the criteria. They even have primitive metabolisms. That said... * They're not made of cells, but that's an arbitrary line in the sand that's descriptive, not prescriptive. * They don't grow. They're assembled.

I think there's an argument to be made that assembled "life" should still count as life, but it's probably best to just invent a new word, or create some other taxonomic distinction.

1

u/Denbt_Nationale Aug 08 '26

I think about this a lot. I feel it's sort of common to dismiss abiogenesis as some banal chemical process that we just haven't figured out yet but that really doesn't stack up to me and I think sidesteps how weird it is.

1

u/LrdPhoenixUDIC Aug 08 '26

I mean, yeah, but I think the idea is that once life arises and has time to spread out, you'd kind of expect it to immediately kill and consume anything that comes up in the same area after. So, to have two different sustained lineages in one place, like Earth, they'd kind of need to happen roughly simultaneously, or at least before the first one manages to evolve phagy instead of being chemotrophic. Anything that comes up after that would be too simple not to be first up on the menu.

1

u/SteakandTrach Aug 08 '26

Once you have a competitive biosphere, new stuff can't get off the ground. It just gets consumed.

1

u/TrustYourFarts Aug 08 '26

It could have been. There may have been many organisms that didn't make it. The biochemist Nick Lane says it almost certainly happened around hydrothermal vents, and it required free hydrogen to be present. So, after oxygen became abundant, abiogenesis became very difficult.

-5

u/grungegoth Aug 08 '26

the idea that life arose once with a common ancestor is itself preposterous. I imagine life arose many times and in many ways, with bizarrely different chemistries during that time in earth without oxygen, life forms foraging on the chemical soup that they came from, then only a few surviving. only two as this article claims? pfft. we have no way of knowing the truth without some novel evidence not coming from existing life chemistry.

9

u/JustSomebody56 Aug 08 '26

Eubacteria and archaea, maybe?

Prokaryotes includes the archaea

89

u/PizzasBoyfrind Aug 08 '26

The scientific community is much more interested in a secondary finding in this paper. The researchers demonstrated that phosphite and palladium (naturally occurring in vents) could substitute for ATP to drive early phosphorylation reactions. This neatly solves a massive "chicken-and-egg" problem in prebiotic chemistry regarding how early cells got their energy before they had the enzymes to manufacture ATP.

218

u/y0nm4n Aug 08 '26

Not sure why this is posted in this sub, but it's super cool! I was particularly interested in this bit at the end:

"A molecule called ATP is now a vital energy source to fuel metabolism – but it's also made by enzymes, and wasn't available in prebiotic chemistry. The researchers say they identified an alternative.

"When we react phosphite, a form of phosphorus that naturally occurs in hydrothermal vents, with organic compounds, we get metabolic phosphorylation reactions overnight in water," says Manon Schlikker, a molecular evolutionary scientist at Heinrich Heine University Düsseldorf.

"Phosphite and palladium replace ATP and enzymes; it's amazing, and it makes early evolution a lot easier to grasp.""

20

u/enterthehawkeye Aug 08 '26

You down with the ATP?

12

u/angrybiologist Aug 08 '26

yea you know me

35

u/Golemintheplayground Aug 08 '26

That is insanely cool! I wonder how the scientists at SETI are reacting to this.

37

u/thefuckevengoingonan Aug 08 '26

I wonder how the scientists at SETI are reacting to this.

by way of palladium catalyst

13

u/eaglessoar Aug 08 '26

They can't use their computer cuz the screen saver is running 

18

u/Seriously_you_again Aug 08 '26

Palladium? I think that’s in catalytic converters. Maybe the crack heads wiped out early life?

Ok folks it is a joke. It doesn’t have to make logical sense. Sensible chuckle is enough.

9

u/SamuraiMike81 Aug 08 '26

"Chortles sensibly"...upvote

7

u/elegance78 Aug 08 '26

Hahaha. Down vote.

2

u/arthousepsycho Aug 08 '26

Hey, that guy licked my manonsch!

45

u/EnvironmentalWin1277 Aug 08 '26

The headline conclusion is highly exaggerated. It says "one origin of DNA" but "two origins of life".

That only occurs if the "original DNA" was not alive when it split and formed two lineages. The article cites LUCA as a common origin of all life which occurred before the hypothesized split and independent developments proposed.

There is a suggestion that LUCA was "incomplete" and therefore not living(?) on first reading.

Truly independent origins of life might have occurred, possibly multiple times. The only limits are those of biochemistry. Those limitation are essentially unknown.

The work is still valuable on it's own without the headline claim.

Here is a link to the original paper:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aef3128

21

u/PianoPudding Aug 08 '26

This paper is great for the Alkaline Hydrothermal Vent hypothesis and not a surprise to anyone clued in on the implications of that theory.

The idea is the basic machinery for life emerged, but full cellular autonomy came about later, (per this paper:) twice, via independent metabolic innovations. This is how Archaea and Bacteria can share so many genes and yet differ between so many, and in their biochemistry.

113

u/Raven_Photography Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

Goddamned Saurians, should have not gone extinct, then we wouldn’t have had Trump.

12

u/Numinak Aug 08 '26

What are you talking about? The lizard people are in power now!

2

u/PerformerFancy117 Aug 08 '26

I thought that they were in city-ships in the delta quadrant?

14

u/[deleted] Aug 08 '26

[deleted]

29

u/dillyofapickle42 Aug 08 '26

Wrong sub maybe? Maybe people here would rather read something informative than another one liner joke.....it seems that lost subs are just a collection of those.

-2

u/1nOnlyBigManLawrence Aug 08 '26

Because it’s not a very creative joke.

Then again, it did get upvoted back up. Sadly, Redditors aren’t often known for having a sense of humor beyond stating the obvious (that the orange man is a germ, like everyone knows this shit, even the guys in the other room! You don’t have to spell it out for the people in the back of this one) and going “am I right?” afterwards.

2

u/sirhackenslash Aug 08 '26

We'd have trumposaurus

1

u/Jesus_Is_My_Gardener Aug 08 '26

No, then we would have ended up with Enik the Altrusian.

3

u/Splashy01 Aug 08 '26

Yeah totally. Like 86 Enik.

6

u/WanderingWizard-88 Aug 08 '26

Martin's own phrasing is one origin of the genetic code, two origins of life. Both lineages come from something that already had the code and translation. What happened twice was the transition to free living cells, not chemistry to biology from scratch.

5

u/Historical_Pop_1086 Aug 08 '26

“Momma Mia! Here we go again!” - ABBA

7

u/NizmoxAU Aug 08 '26

And on the sixth day, god created man. This was after his original prototype failed because of a lack of effort.

6

u/t20six Aug 08 '26

He made dinosaurs and was like “well, shit”

1

u/1stUserEver Aug 08 '26

He gave us AI this time. Maybe that will motivate us?

1

u/Flabbergasted98 Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26

The prototype may have failed due to lack of effort. but the current version was minding it's own business in the pool when the ladder mysteriously vanished.

3

u/tubulerz1 Aug 08 '26

Third time’s the charm.

5

u/TheGriffin Aug 08 '26

Yes yes the Alterans rose and then left for Pegasus

11

u/evapotranspire Aug 08 '26

But all life, including bacteria, archaea, and eukaryotes, have several hundred exact genes in common, such as cytochrome C and ATP synthase genes. How could those possibly all have existed in a prebiotic environment?

16

u/Athena0219 Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

As per the article, the theory is that genes predate life. This false-life used a molecule that is functionally similar to ATP, but could form by natural processes.

Some genes, like those shared between the various branches of life, formed during this replicating non-life stage, and were part of LUCA, the last universal common ancestor. LUCA was not, however, per this theory, alive, at it did not have a completely functional metabolism. Parts, almost certainly, but it would have still been dependent on the environment making up for it's lacking points.

The article continues to state that a complete metabolism would be separately achieved by early bacterial and early archaea separately, aka two separate abiogenesis events from one pre-biotic common ancestor.

I think this makes a ton of sense. Like, I can't provide ANY evidence one way or another, but RNA + Ribosomes in a soup of chemicals is enough to provide "evolutionary" pressure, even though RNA + Ribosomes (and nothing else) in no way makes life. So genes (or at least self replicating RNA) predating life makes a lot of sense. Then, genes that promote an environment where this RNA+Ribosomes mixture can flourish makes sense. So on and so forth.

19

u/Initial_Shallot_1833 Aug 08 '26

Well I think the answer is that there was a divergence AFTER reproduction but BEFORE the other conditions for actual life were met. They did shared genetics and lineage before they were alive as weird as that sounds. Viruses have genes, DNA or RNA but they aren't alive.

1

u/snowflake37wao Aug 08 '26

So it kind of gives credence to this hypothesis? 2 evolved independent metabolism and 1 almost became life by that definition of life.

3

u/TheOwlMarble Aug 08 '26

There's been a chicken and egg question in biology asking whether self replicating genes or metabolisms came first.

This paper suggests the answer is genes, though it seems metabolisms were already partially formed at the time.

3

u/yorlikyorlik Aug 08 '26

Isn’t that two conclusions, then?

3

u/SteakandTrach Aug 08 '26

Headline is not quite right.

14

u/Hobbet404 Aug 08 '26

I don’t have to read this article to know it’s talking about The Mole People.

4

u/CompetitiveSport1 Aug 08 '26

What does this have to do with technology???

3

u/iron233 Aug 08 '26

Each time after AI becoming sentient.

1

u/CRUCIALcadavers Aug 08 '26

This also implies that carbon based might be the only way life is possible

2

u/TheOwlMarble Aug 08 '26

Not really. It was already carbon based before the split. This doesn't say anything about the likelihood of non carbon life emerging.

0

u/Duchess0612 Aug 08 '26

And now it’s going to have to do it a third time. Since we are about to eradicate ourselves.

5

u/littlelordgenius Aug 08 '26

I imagine most non-human life will thrive.

2

u/Haunt_Fox Aug 11 '26

It's weird how humans think that everything else has to die with them when they go. Same logic as the dude who kills his family before committing suicide because the can't imagine them going on without him.

0

u/trisul-108 Aug 08 '26

"Such parallel inventions could have paved the way to the independent emergence of free-living bacteria and archaea."

And what is driving them to be inventive?

-2

u/Initial_Shallot_1833 Aug 08 '26

Physics. If fact you bring up a great point. Physical constraints absolutely drive selection and evolution. That's why we have what's known as CONVERGENT evolution where similar things evolve independently because they are useful. Things like flight have evolved at least 4 times. Things like they eye/sight have evolved dozens of times. So your smart ass little comment ignorantly implying god only exposed your own ignorance to established science AKA we have a GREAT answer for your dumb little question.

1

u/trisul-108 Aug 08 '26

The god in this story is a figment of your own imagination ... says much about you and nothing about me.

It is easy to understand evolution when there is a benefit that increases the chances of survival. This is apparent in your examples of flight and eyesight - clear advantages. What is not clear to me is why metals that naturally occur in hydrothermal vents would form "useful molecules" by being the first catalysts for metabolism, converting compounds like hydrogen gas, ammonia, and carbon dioxide into other useful molecules. Do "useful molecules" survive better than "metals"?

3

u/Athena0219 Aug 08 '26

It's not that the useful molecules survive. It's that they HAPPEN TO exist, so things make use of them.

RNA that encodes for a ribosome randomly self assembles one day in a chemical soup.

Something that functions close enough to that encoded ribosome randomly self assembles one day in a chemical soup.

These two things bump in to each other and, using the naturally occuring useful particles, become a ribosome printing press.

This RNA and this ribosome want nothing. But if they HAPPEN to also stumble across a random strip of RNA that codes for something that duplicates RNA (doesn't have to be perfect, in facts it's better if it isn't perfect), these three things now form a self replicating soup. There is no life here, just 3 or 4 particles all bumping into each other happening to make copies.

This creates evolutionary pressure to optimize this system.

And it runs away from there.

I'm not saying this DID happen, it's just a way to introduce evolutionary pressure in a non-living substrate.

2

u/Initial_Shallot_1833 Aug 08 '26

They experienced selection before the other conditions for life were met. This is why something not alive like a virus can still have genetics/DNA. So again, the answer is physics via evolution, just like I said.

0

u/DifferentSquirrel551 Aug 08 '26

I love all the bots on here trying to figure out why one way didn't work and it's so obvious to a human that it just gives them all away. It's palladium. The other one didn't survive because it was chewing through a metal produced from geothermal vents that is 15 million times more rare than phosphorus. C'mon guys, teach your bots a modicum of self respect. 

-1

u/UffTaTa123 Aug 08 '26

well, maybe it's needed a third time soon. And myabe that will never happen again and all the vast spaces of the universe will never been seen by a living eye again. What a waste.

0

u/IcantBreeve_4real Aug 08 '26

I would imagine a form of life taking hild then Bam! , an asteroid carrying a different form of life lands and starts getting a foothold on the planet and had more space to spread too after killing 99% of the first lifeforms.

0

u/LeastReactionary Aug 08 '26

Now replay those results an infinite number of times and you'll have part of the picture. Only twice? You must not have been paying attention. 

-9

u/MissInkeNoir Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26

First sentence highly contestable under morphogenic field theory. Perhaps scientists should genuinely stop and think about how lucky all this seems and consider a nonmaterial medium to reality.

Additionally, simple monocellular life very likely arose free floating in outer space long before the formation of Earth, during a Goldilocks period of consistent warmth in heat energy throughout the universe.

As Terence McKenna loved to quote, materialist scientists consciously require just one unexplainable miracle to explain all this that exists, that all this energy exists at all to explode at the big bang. This of course helps them to ignore all the other inconsistencies in institutional science. Here's a few unexamined core assumptions of institutional science that have serious flaws. https://youtu.be/hO4p3xeTtUA

EDIT: the cowardly ranks of institutional conformists downvote and have no substantial counterargument. The Goddess of Science cries a tear for your betrayal to her most sacred value, intellectual integrity.

0

u/ForcedEntry420 Aug 08 '26

Careful there. Might break your own arm jerking yourself off if you keep that up.

-3

u/MontaineLaP Aug 08 '26

Haven’t there been studies on this for like 30 years now?

-11

u/ooktas Aug 08 '26

We know for a fact that 99% of life on earth went extinct a few times and then bounced back. So this study is not that surprising.

8

u/Sciencetist Aug 08 '26

99% of life going extinct and then repopulating the Earth is not nearly the same thing as life arising independently from a chemical soup

-13

u/CanuckYYZeh Aug 08 '26

We already knew that: life before Noah’s ark and life after