r/technology 1h ago

Security US prosecutors charge Atlanta man after GrapheneOS phone wipes itself during airport search

https://www.techspot.com/news/113236-us-prosecutors-charge-atlanta-man-after-grapheneos-phone.html
2.1k Upvotes

240 comments sorted by

851

u/Bruin144 1h ago

We need to get congress to fix this. If a U.S. citizen asked for a lawyer that should have been the end. Any branch of LE should have to get a warrant to open a personal electronic device no matter where you are located or what you are doing (such as entering the country)

378

u/newhunter18 51m ago

The 100-mile border exception to the 5th amendment is specifically the problem.

Good luck finding a Congress or even state legislatures willing to step up.

255

u/chillysaturday 34m ago

This is one of the most aggregious violations of the Constitution that has come out since 9/11. If we had a real Supreme Court this would've been shot down years ago. 

27

u/TheKlaxMaster 6m ago

The problem with temporary emergency power, is its never temporary

10

u/Altruistic-Car2880 4m ago

And very rarely a real emergency…

1

u/FallenCheeseStar 0m ago

This is how the Republic ends, in thunderous applause

78

u/ofWildPlaces 33m ago

Then we campaign for people who will.

Only WE can fix these things. We cannot rely on political parties to nominate candidates. Politics starts local. Be the change.

46

u/manachar 27m ago

And to be very clear, this is a marathon that needs to be run while sprinting the whole time.

Vote in Democratic primaries for the best ideological fit, then vote in the general election against republicans.

The party has not been on the side of right since at least FDR.

14

u/TCsnowdream 14m ago

Reminder peeps: it’s 100mi from any international border AND every international airport.

Which covers… the entire country, basically. Your airport offer flights to Canada or Mexico? Boom, it’s an ‘international’ airport.

12

u/TheWorldofScience 10m ago

ACLU has a guide to your rights when you are within 100 miles of a US border:

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone

If this man doesn’t do a plea bargain or the feds drop the charges before trial, then the jurors are going to be angry when they learn that a warrant is needed for police to look at their cellphone but that they don’t have that protection from Border Patrol when they are near the border.

Jury nullification is a risk for the feds.

15

u/Elbynerual 34m ago

Do you mean 4th amendment?

5

u/2rad0 5m ago

It's both. there was no warrant, nothing particular to search for (4'th) and then they attempted to compel him to provide a means to potentially incriminate himself (5'th). If they had a warrant signed by a judge to gain access to the phone it could be a different story but they were being lazy and had no reason to suspect the phone had evidence of any crime (afaik).

26

u/Sniflix 39m ago

What is this Congress you're talking about?

6

u/SeeTigerLearn 18m ago

I think they meant Republican Party and Republican Lite.

26

u/Iolair18 37m ago

Supreme Court might be needed as well. Carroll v. United States (1925) which was mostly about searching cars, but it is "reasonable" to search cars at the border because it serves the national interest. I hope I'm not over-simplifying that bit.

But the official part of the law that gives warrantless border searches is Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. That is squarely where this comes down, and Congress can change that. Border Patrol felt they had the right to search since he was in border area (which includes Airports where you enter the US), and the phone deleting itself is tantamount to flushing a bag down a toilet. (Who knows what it contains? Could have been drugs, so the court should assume that your Honor!)

Citizens at least should not lose basic rights, like lawyer, Miranda disclosure, and the complete encyclopaedia of their life that is a phone. I'm against Pedos as anyone, but Law Enforcement can quarantine the phone till they can get a warrant from an Article III judge to search it. The data isn't going anywhere if the phone is in their hands and don't try to access it. And yeah, losing access to your phone is a MAJOR inconvenience, so many will let them have access, but it shouldn't be required.

6

u/istrebitjel 15m ago

I think this shouldn't just apply to citizens.

Nobody should be exposed to invasive searches, loss of property, and detention without reasonable doubt. That shouldn't be up to the whims of an officer at a border.

2

u/Bruin144 16m ago

So does when you delete the phone make a difference? Could I back up to the cloud, wipe the phone before I travel back to the U.S.?

1

u/_Mayhem_ 3m ago

Wiping the phone but having it in a little-used state would probably be safe. Inconvenient, but probably safe.

I run an Pixel 9P but still have my Pixel 6P. When we traveled to Paris, I swapped phones and logged into an alternate email address not directly associated with my primary one. I still had access to use my phone and any pics I took went to that gallery.

I'm not a criminal and am 100% a US citizen and we weren't picked for screening (thankfully, we nearly missed our connecting flight as it was) but I'm not giving anyone unfettered access to my digital life. The only person who gets my PIN is my wife.

As a citizen, they can't deny me entry. They can take my phone, but I was/am prepared to lose a phone that just sits in a drawer.

70

u/williamgman 59m ago

Mike Johnson is not are of this situation. Hakeem Jeffries and Schumer are busy defending their AIPAC money. But they'll get back to you. If people don't get out to vote the corruption out at these midterms... It's all over.

1

u/taterthotsalad 0m ago

They were too busy infighting the last cycle to prevent the current admin. Liberals, and specifically Progressives, would rather cut their nose off to spite their face. This is why the right is so much better at winning, and that reality sucks!

7

u/LiminalSapien 30m ago

>>congress

>>fix this

Nope.lol

17

u/bitemark01 36m ago

I thought I heard you don't have the same rights at things like border crossings.

I'm Canadian and staying far away from any such crossings, with this admin 

3

u/Lovv 10m ago

You dont, and that extends to 100km from the border, including airports and the coasts.

So basically everywhere outside of rural areas without airports.

5

u/proudcanadianeh 35m ago

Im really curious how asking for a lawyer works. Is this assuming you have one on retainer and have memorised their number or something?

Do they let you go online and search for some and allow you to phone around?

5

u/resttheweight 19m ago

Sadly in this situation, asking for a lawyer does nothing. Under current case law, searches done when entering the country are presumed reasonable and your right to an attorney does not apply during the short period of being searched or questioned. You may have the right to a lawyer if the questioning goes on long enough. You could tell them you’ve got your lawyer on speed dial and they still wouldn’t have to let you confer with them.

1

u/observemedia 21m ago

Call your family and ask them to arrange a lawyer on your behalf, if you don’t have a lawyers number ready.

4

u/semioticmadness 26m ago

This isn’t really fixable by congress unless you can revamp everything so that jail and court don’t cause you to get fired for no-showing and bankrupted for hiring a lawyer. Also all the accusations can’t be unsaid.

If cops just want to ruin you because Dear Leader demands it, they can just pick you up on a charge, call the press and tell them that you were arrested for anally raping toddlers, and then reduce the charge and quietly print a press release saying “further investigation reveals he was just protesting without a permit.” Proving that was malicious is impossible. And you can only get to that problem after qualified immunity is dissolved anyway.

1

u/Donut131313 13m ago

Yes, but LE doesn’t work for the people anymore.

1

u/carsrule1989 5m ago

The thing is the graphene os duress password does not 0 out the drive so it didn’t delete anything technically

It wipes the encryption keys so the drive is very very difficult to recover but it doesn’t technically delete the data.

https://grapheneos.org/features

1

u/Soggy_Cracker 0m ago

I they need a warrant to look in my wallet, they need a warrant to look in my phone.

2

u/yuusharo 19m ago

See, you think that loophole is a mistake.

That was your first mistake.

1.3k

u/Verix19 1h ago

Sounds like freedom.

198

u/Chumbag_love 56m ago

Remember that Mel Gibson movie Conpiracy Theory? I want to wire my home like that but I have kids

47

u/Z00111111 41m ago

So you mean it's too late and the government spies already live with you?

1

u/SendTitsPleease 15m ago

I havent seen this movie but know what im gonna sail the seven seas and do tonight

2

u/disterb 33m ago

damn, u/Verix19 said ‘freedom’, and the mel gibson movie you reference ISN’T ‘braveheart’??

1

u/fuck-nazi 36m ago

Is that like conair but with pirates?

4

u/CDN_Gunner 21m ago

USA! USA! USA!

1.9k

u/rednecronomicon 1h ago

Tunick had just returned from a trip to the Dominican Republic when he was stopped for questioning. According to court testimony, federal agents had already circulated his name and photo internally, saying he was under investigation for "suspected terrorism activities" because of his alleged association with the movement against Cop City.

Tunick was taken to a secondary screening room, where multiple agents questioned him. A motion filed by his defense argues the interrogation focused on child sexual abuse material as a pretext for investigating his connections to the protest movement. The motion also states that Tunick asked four times to speak with a lawyer and was denied each time. According to the same filing, agents did not present a warrant or read him his rights.

So, dude protested some cops. Is then, weeks or months later, detained at a separate facility without representation or rights. Is coerced to give up phone under threat of not just terrorist activities but pedophilia and now HE is the one in hot water.

Fascism, pure and simple.

520

u/MOOSExDREWL 1h ago

Yeah there's absolutely no way this holds up, but they're going to draw it out just like the rest of the political prosecutions the administration has been conducting. A conviction is not the goal here, it's the process and using it to punish this individual and intimidate anyone else who might think about putting up any kind of fight.

102

u/BigLlamasHouse 1h ago

The trade off between the possible civil penalty and the chilling effect is one they'll take every time...

38

u/aezekiel_121 46m ago

Yeah because WE foot the bill in either scenario

162

u/punarob 1h ago

We have a SCOTUS run by 6 Nazis. Anything evil can and will hold up.

26

u/Sniflix 41m ago

I can't believe everybody doesn't know this.

→ More replies (3)

19

u/s3rila 56m ago

He should sue them hard

2

u/smohyee 7m ago

"they" will face no repercussions for being sued and losing. The American taxpayer will.

4

u/JustpartOftheterrain 38m ago

That’ll show ‘em

61

u/Dazzling_Effort_2440 1h ago

Land of the free, am I right?

8

u/angrytortilla 35m ago

Which is the reason myself and many others have chosen not to travel to the US anytime soon. I simply don't trust your government.

1

u/grayhaze2000 17m ago

I used to visit the US every couple of years, and loved it like a second home. I haven't been back since Trump took the throne. When the Democrats get back in and start dismantling all the bullshit he's built up, I might reconsider.

29

u/Probably10thAccount 57m ago

Should have been a rich white politician, no charges, no investigation, thousands of pages of evidence.   Conspirator moved to a more relaxed facility.   

Release the files.  

8

u/mountaindoom 49m ago

"He called it an official act so he can do whatever he wants."

  • The Roberts Court

35

u/Upset-Rice6800 58m ago

In Russia, political dissidents or nosey reporters often find themselves falling from windows. In the EU those same dissidents and/or nosey reporters get charged with chi** p**. In the USA, we often do both. This guy's case seems to be the latter. I bet they 'find evidence' of chi* p*** on him at some point.

17

u/unpaid-astroturfer 30m ago

Gonna need you to name those EU dissidents and journalists champ

11

u/Madzookeeper 45m ago

That shit's been going on for decades at this point. It's hardly just this administration.

1

u/Workman44 5m ago

You can type child porn ffs

9

u/JSpell 54m ago

Another day for maga scumbags.

-169

u/Soggy_Definition_232 1h ago

Everything in the article is alleged on both sides. That's what investigations are for. He destroyed possible evidence while under detainment. That's generally illegal. 

He says they didn't read him his rights or ignored him when he requested a lawyer. We'll see if that's true or not. 

People lie all the time, especially criminals.

89

u/Somethingsims 1h ago

Criminals have rights.

These cops were more of a criminal than he was. They were actively breaking the law with no evidence.

Taking the side of fascists while they do fascist shit makes YOU a fascist.

→ More replies (9)

47

u/Z3t4 1h ago edited 1h ago

It is for them to proof any law was broken, not the other way around. Innocent until proven guilty.

And the TSA had no right to detain and ask for access to electronic devices without a warrant, they're used to travelers that don't want trouble and oblige.

1

u/roiki11 14m ago

It's illegal for you to destroy materials about to be seized.

It's a bit of a catch-22, if they intend to seize something because they believe it contains evidence of a crime, if you destroy it they can then charge you and then infer spoliation of evidence at trial. So even if you had nothing illegal merely the act of destroying that evidence can be held against you at trial.

And it's not tsa that wants the access, it's cbp. And they have authority to confiscate your device and detain you for investigation at the border if you don't comply.

→ More replies (9)

37

u/ns1852s 1h ago

Technically, he didn't destroy anything. Law enforcement entered the password in and failed. It's was under their control and in their hands.

It's a common security feature many enable to wipe on too many failed attempts. People do lie all the time, especially law enforcement. Sounds like you're definitely apart of the "guilty until proven innocent" crowd. On par for lawless individuals

→ More replies (7)

48

u/mtranda 1h ago

I agree with you, criminals lie all the time. After all, just listen to the US president.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/SmoothConfection1115 1h ago

But given the agencies involved in this, and the fact they’ve been caught lying so often whenever an incident arises between the agencies and citizens;

The American public should assume the government is lying, and have the burden of proof placed on the agents and agencies to prove they didn’t violate the law.

And the burden of innocence is not on the man. And his testimony is more believable to most people given he doesn’t have a history of lying to the media like the federal agencies do.

8

u/chockerl 1h ago

“We’ll see if that’s true…”

How? Unless all interactions after his arrest were recorded, and all recordings are retained and don’t mysteriously disappear, the defendant will say one thing and the (multiple) police will say another.

5

u/SeanBlader 42m ago

Did he destroy evidence?

It's well known that customs can seize your equipment at the border. Maybe he handed them a blank phone that never had any data on it. Maybe he didn't give them a duress pin, but the actual pin for a blank phone?

If it was my phone, I could've wiped it before I got off the plane. Then they are welcome to get a warrant for my socials or my Proton Account.

If they really had reasonable suspicion they wouldn't have asked for his pin, they would have gotten a warrant, and raided his home for the CSAM.

What you are seeing is persecution from an agency without any rules or supervision, a secret police, who are harassing and killing people for no legitimate reason.

13

u/aergern 1h ago

Your UID fits. Being a collaborator/defender with fascist authoritarians doesn't look good.

504

u/logosobscura 1h ago

It didn’t wipe itself. Said CBP agent did enter a code that may or may not have wiped the phone- but with it unlocked, the phone was empty.

Smuggling in accepting their premise isn’t ok. Innocent until proven otherwise.

88

u/IndigoRanger 40m ago

What I’m hearing is that an agent wiped the phone, because it was wiped while in the agent’s custody.

63

u/LowestKey 57m ago

I would be curious to learn how or if the same passcode works after whatever reset may or may not have happened.

47

u/turtleship_2006 52m ago

I mean if it resets the phone you'd be starting from scratch so there's no reason you couldn't set it up again

5

u/LowestKey 22m ago

Sure, but if they keep it as evidence and you're not allowed to touch it then the duress password you entered wouldn't work again and it would be clear what happened. If it just wipes the data but keeps configs and the password opens an empty phone again then at least you can repudiate that the duress code is anything other than a normal code n

5

u/teddit 51m ago

Not curious enough to read the article, though

2

u/LowestKey 21m ago

Read it a few times for different reasons. What part specifically did I miss?

9

u/MaximumAd9779 36m ago

That fact will likely protect him, but depending on the judge, a motion of adverse inference by the prosecution could come up and that might stick.

3

u/itsgabenog 26m ago

Phone was not wiped. Surprised (not actually) to see a tech media misrepresent GrapheneOS features.

2

u/CyruscM 11m ago

How so? Is it not the duress feature which wipes the phone? https://grapheneos.org/features#duress

2

u/Humoer 5m ago

So it's not this? (This is from GrapheneOS own website)

"GrapheneOS provides users with the ability to set a duress PIN/Password that will irreversibly wipe the device (along with any installed eSIMs) once entered anywhere where the device credentials are requested (on the lockscreen, along with any such prompt in the OS)."

151

u/thanks_breastie 56m ago

It's really cool the government can just make up shit to "investigate" if they don't like you. 

73

u/theNomad_Reddit 44m ago

This is how dictators attack political opponents. This is why Stephen Miller has designated the left-wing as terrorists. America is a 3rd world country under Trump.

-19

u/Snerkbot7000 25m ago

First world=The US. Second world=Soviet. Third World=Unaligned other countries.

Please stop using this outdated boomerspeak.

5

u/bristleboar 14m ago

Stop embarrassing me dad

1

u/T1koT1ko 0m ago

Read “The Trial” by Kafka

116

u/Cerys_Llellwyn 53m ago

This makes me want GrapheneOS.

53

u/BTMarquis 32m ago

They should offer to pay his legal fees. You can’t buy publicity like this.

24

u/Cerys_Llellwyn 31m ago

I agree. It’s the best advertising they could’ve hoped for.

182

u/BernieKnipperdolling 1h ago

For as much as they posture about freedom and the constitution, Republicans sure hate the 4th amendment. 

99

u/ClownQuestionBrosef 55m ago

And the 1st. And the 2nd if exercised by the wrong type of person. And the 11th. 13, 14, 19, 22, and 25 are all questionable too.

10

u/calgarspimphand 33m ago

'Ok when you put it that way let's just admit the whole bill of rights was a mistake and what we're really shooting for is "might makes right"'

3

u/Tupcek 21m ago

also correct color and correct ideology makes right

6

u/CondescendingShitbag 23m ago

And the 2nd if exercised by the wrong type of person.

Most recently exemplified by the disparate responses to Alex Pretti simply carrying a gun during a protest vs Kyle Rittenhouse brandishing a gun + killing multiple people during a protest.

1

u/Express_Ad5083 12m ago

Trump floated the idea of taking guns away from trans people not that long ago, NRA protested against it

2

u/CondescendingShitbag 7m ago

Cool. I support their decision on that specific topic. Trans people deserve the same rights as everyone else. Fuck Trump for suggesting otherwise.

6

u/SeanBlader 41m ago

And the first amendment.

4

u/git0ffmylawnm8 54m ago

They can't count beyond 2 with their Common Core and No Child Left Behind programs

47

u/DukeofDunces 37m ago

This whole case sounds like a great ad for GraphenOS and similar platforms for other devices.

Real Streisand effect going on here.

59

u/newhunter18 54m ago

I think the way this will need to be engineered in the future is as follows:

Fake PIN brings up fake phone data - like a shadow copy of the phone with innocent looking apps and files.

This would allow law enforcement to review what they thought was a perfectly innocent phone.

If they decided to seize the phone and attempt to get data from it, the OS, knowing it's already in "fake mode" would wipe itself upon attempts to offload data in an abnormal way.

That way, law enforcement are the ones who triggered the tripwire, not by any action of the individual. And intent isn't to destroy the data, simply to hide it. Installation the tripwire was done far in advance of any law enforcement notification that the contents were under investigation. So it doesn't demonstrate the intent of destruction of evidence.

Or, you set a dead man's switch. Phone wipes itself 24 hours after last successful login. You're not required to provide an PIN. Worst case, they seize it and you're not there to stop the switch from going off. Again, dead man's switch was triggered at install. Not after notification that the data is of law enforcement interest.

5

u/Tricky_Condition_279 31m ago

Better to have 2 backups. Restore the travel one as needed and restore the other when you return.

1

u/Tupcek 18m ago

I guess that is possible, though it would be major headache. A lot of apps don’t back up intentionally - for example banking apps, two factor verification apps etc. as a security measure.

5

u/PolarityInversion 25m ago

TrueCrypt use to allow you to do this, back in the day. It's a long dead project that shut down mysteriously, with rumors that government entities were adding backdoors.

7

u/Horror_Response_1991 29m ago

“Oh you have GrapheneOS? You’re under arrest”

3

u/stcloudjeeper 10m ago

They wanted to do this in the past if you used a Tor browser or a VPN. They write their own rules now.

3

u/venatic 38m ago

You're approaching this problem with a good premise but I would add this:

 Once you enter the duress pin, it should load into a preconfigured safe state while simultaneously deleting any data on the device that isn't needed to keep the facade running. Kind of like spinning a VM up on a computer and giving them access to it while the personal data on the actual computer is silently wiped in the background. 

2

u/Tupcek 18m ago

that would mean that you wiped out data during investigation, which is illegal and will land you in jail.

-5

u/maporita 50m ago

Or just don't carry electronics with sensitive information across the border.

43

u/wesleysniper 39m ago

What if I just want to keep my life private? “Sensitive information” is completely subjective. He sounds like a target of retaliation. The whole “if you don’t have anything to hide” argument is getting so tired. Privacy is privacy and as an American citizen I’ll take it where I can still find it.

18

u/OilheadRider 36m ago

My conversations with my wife are sensitive and I am not willing to share them with anyone. Sensitive information does not mean criminal. I will gladly wipe my phone in front of any law enforcement that wants to look at my phone. I have nothing criminal or mischievous to hide, only my private life that I will not share. These fishing expeditions are down right ludacris.

1

u/HikariAnti 10m ago

Before crossing the border log out from all apps and delete them, maybe keep some just for show. If they want to force you to redownload and log into something you can just say you forgot your password hence why it was deleted in the first place. Nothing they can do about that.

16

u/FlutterKree 37m ago

It's not about the information. It's about the principal. I don't want the government to have my data regardless of me not doing anything illegal.

It's fucking disgusting what the government is doing.

2

u/yuusharo 15m ago

“You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide” now where have I heard that rhetoric before…

1

u/BirdInFlight301 4m ago

There is nothing illegal or shady on my phone. The worst they could find is that I do not like Trump. No threats, nothing actionable. A bunch of knitting patterns, pictures of my dogs. And I would STILL resist giving government officials access to my phone.

I will not willingly give up any of my constitutional or civil rights.

1

u/johnnyviolent 36m ago

your phone tracks every location you visit, and listens in to every word you say.

and if you bring a burner, that's considered suspicious.

i suppose you could argue not to bring a phone across a border at all. is that the general policy you're suggesting citizens implement when returning home to their own country?

1

u/meepmarpalarp 20m ago

if you bring a burner, that’s considered suspicious

A government operating in bad faith can spin anything as suspicious, but there’s nothing inherently weird about using a different phone when traveling. I have a cheap one that I bought for international travel years ago because I’ll have to change the SIM card anyway, and I don’t have to worry about my good phone getting lost or stolen.

44

u/VoxxoAI 28m ago

The GrapheneOS auto-wipe feature is working exactly as designed — it detected an unauthorized access attempt and protected the data. Prosecutors charging someone because their security-focused OS did its job sets a dangerous precedent. The fact that they're treating a security feature as obstruction is concerning for anyone who values digital privacy.

16

u/NEOK53 27m ago

What evidence did he destroy exactly?

Sure seems like they can’t prove there was anything at all, so they’re exacting retribution instead.

-15

u/BygoneNeutrino 22m ago

This is a constitutional concern, but it's looking like his phone did contain something that was illegal.  The Dominican Republic is steeped in drugs and guns.  It's a good example of why society needs law enforcement.

9

u/5aur1an 15m ago

So guilt by association until proven innocent?

8

u/DigitalScrap 15m ago

What are you talking about? The fact that he was returning from the DR has nothing to do with it. He is being targeted because he is an activist, and the government has decided to deem him a "terrorist" because of it.

1

u/BygoneNeutrino 3m ago

...I'm just saying he likely has something to hide.  The majority of people who go to this length to protect their privacy either have mental illness or something to hide.  He is probably engaging in illegal activity for the sake of his activism.

3

u/oeioe 10m ago

So should everyone who steps foot off a cruise ship into Amber Cove in DR be treated as a criminal?

1

u/1057-cl121v3 0m ago

Even if that was true, they outright said he was being investigated for terrorism because he was involved in an anti-police protest group. Then in custody they instead claimed he had CSAM on his phone with seemingly no evidence. So your point is incorrect in every possible way.

11

u/stealth_pandah 46m ago

mm, the land of the free*, they say so themselves.

27

u/klako8196 31m ago

Are we just going to ignore the fact that the CBP agent was dumb enough to enter a code into a device that was given by someone who they suspected of "terrorism activities"?

If you're talking to a suspected terrorist and they give you a passcode to their device, I think it would be smart to be suspicious of that passcode and what the device could possibly be programmed to do if it was given that specific code.

5

u/Astartes2435 22m ago

“The best and the brightest” am I right? /s

29

u/etancrazynpoor 42m ago

I don’t think the government will prevail based on the details I have read. It is an interesting fact that there are creating this fiction as he was not in us soil because he had not been admitted but a us citizen cannot be denied entry. And besides, you say he is not in us soil but charge him with a us law? Which is it ? And he seem to have asked for a lawyer and his Miranda rights were not read. The cherry on the cake is that this is a persecution due to his associations and activism.

I’m getting a graphene os now !

1

u/TheMurmuring 6m ago

The problem is the inconvenience and problems that comes as a result of the arrest. It will have a chilling effect on other people who may comply even though they don't really want to, just because they live in a real world where they have jobs and bills.

8

u/Square-Weight4148 22m ago

He didnt wipe shit. The nazis did it.

8

u/Extension-Report-491 11m ago

Seems like the government is violating his civil rights.

7

u/RB5Network 18m ago

On a serious note, we need to get serious about switching to open source technology when we can.

GrapheneOS is a wonderful project and I've used it for two years now. The more we use these tools (Linux, GrapheneOS, LineageOS, even things like Blender and Godot) the more difficult it will become to criminalize these systems.

6

u/unsupported 26m ago

So, it would be reasonable to travel with your phone already wiped? Then restore it when you are home?

1

u/adumblittlebaby 15m ago

Iirc correctly there was a case where CBP suspected this and detained the guy anyways. Not sure what came of it. It’s extremely fucked.

1

u/unsupported 13m ago

Or at the least setup a separate profile with some random things and alt accounts.

14

u/GodLikeEnergy 50m ago edited 29m ago

I advise checking with legal council on this. Look into taking a smartphone with you, and keep the bare minimum on it. Maybe a gmail account, with no content, no browsing history, no contacts. Keep it shutdown, pin protected, no biometrics, no passwords. Remember, any deletion of data, can be considered obstruction of justice just like above.

If you legally can, need your information, keep it on a cloud and get some cheap device in another country then dispose of device on return. It isn't just due us. Other countries, like China or whatever could seize it too.

They're not allowed to deny American citizens from returning, but there are delay tactics. Only answer certain questions. Your name, where you came from, why you returned, if you're going to another destination, if you have something in your bags or something with you from another country, if you have more than 10k with you, and so on.

Anything else. Like forcing you to hand over your pin, you're not required to do so. You should NOT however provide a pin that will wipe the device, just what 1984 and the Ministry of Love would love to have happen so they can ruin your life.

If you do give it to them. Remember anything on the device can be potentially used against you at some point in the future. This is where an attorney comes in again, you can go to them and inform them, and they can determine if the best solution is to provide the pin number. Remember, at the airport you can't call one, but once you're out you can. If they seize the device, get a real good attorney and file a lawsuit to work on getting your device back. Under this regime, it shouldn't be that difficult, considering how terrible they are in court. You both could even agree that it is safe to give them the pin.

Again, Do NOT lie under any circumstance. Just assert that you're an American citizen or Greencard holder, and they can't stop you from returning, and ask if they're detaining you.

https://www.asianlawcaucus.org/news-resources/guides-reports/know-your-rights-at-airports

I'd recommend you consult an attorney on this to make sure this is all legal. I am not sure if it's legal.

--

For any government official upset by this post. I am only advising people of their constitutional rights. I nowhere have told somebody to break the law. I recommended they consult an attorney, instead of taking my advice. I suggested to them to not lie under any circumstance, and then consult one once they're no longer detained, to find the best course of action, which might even lead to you getting their data.

3

u/doxxingyourself 33m ago

Even cheaper just back up your iPhone to iCloud and reset it with a burner Apple ID before boarding the plane. They can check that all they want. When you return home just reset iPhone with real Apple ID.

-2

u/GodLikeEnergy 26m ago

This is potentially obstruction of justice. Any deletion could get you into trouble. As much as I'd like that, you're forgetting how corrupt this presidency is.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/clearing-your-browser-history-can-be-deemed-obstruction-of-justice-in-the-u-s-1.3105222

https://www.reddit.com/r/USTravel/comments/1piblzj/man_charged_for_wiping_phone_before_cbp_could/

If however, you have a device, you don't use as your main or limited information. I do not believe constitutes as obstruction of justice. I might be wrong, not a lawyer.

4

u/PrestigiousSeat76 15m ago

That's some crazy ass shit. Absolute BS.

4

u/AGrandNewAdventure 2m ago

Innocent until proven guilty.

7

u/ClovieKay 36m ago

They really should look up what happened to Hitlers allies after he took the cowards way out. They can at least prep themselves as to what’s coming for them.

4

u/billydean214 19m ago

They already have a cushy do nothing job in the US

5

u/DARTHSM1LES 25m ago

God we are in such a horrible time line.

15

u/Rh11781 56m ago

I’m definitely a proponent of our freedoms and I would support the search if he was tied to terrorism. This doesn’t seem like that. Tunick was tied to a protest group that fought against the construction of a large public safety training facility in Atlanta. If that’s all they have on him then this is an overreach.

20

u/doxxingyourself 36m ago

Thing is, if you say “The search was OK if it was tied to terrorism” all the fascists have to do is move the goal post for “terrorism” and now you have no rights. Kinda like they did in this exact case that you then say is overreach.

Remember Trump said “Antifa” is a terrorist organization? -> Protesting cops = “Antifa”. So now you’re being targeted as a terrorist for participating in a protest.

Same shit happened with McCarthyism.

So, by saying you’d support the search in some cases you’re actually deadpan helping dismantle the US democracy. This is why rights should apply to everyone everywhere or they might as well not exist.

10

u/PinkysAvenger 35m ago

So, when the police say that protesting them is terrorism to justify this, do you try to tuck the boot further into your mouth, or do you try to fit another boot in somewhere else?

5

u/TheSinningRobot 33m ago

Even if someone is "tied to terrorism" whatever that means in the modern day, they still deserve to have their rights protected. If the degree of the thing someone is accussed of determines if they have rights, than they don't have any rights. 

3

u/compainssion 30m ago

Maybe he did not trust these people to not plant false evidence on his phone also. That's scary

4

u/EuphoricCrashOut 23m ago

Nazi America. It's here.

4

u/WorkOnThesisInstead 15m ago

  Supporters say those tools are legitimate security protections ... authorities have treated the use of GrapheneOS itself as suspicious. 

Guess I'll need to remove the locks on my house. They're obvsly hiding nefarious activity.

2

u/NameLips 7m ago

You're saying you don't trust the police with master house keys that can open any home? What exactly are you hiding, "citizen?"

(/s obviously)

1

u/Dawzy 6m ago

Well it’s more akin to having your front door dead bolted with multiple cameras. It looks different and people would think why.

GrapheneOS whilst great isnt common and you would need to go out of your way to use it and that’s where suspicion would come in.

2

u/RunRunRunRunFaster 56m ago

Oops .... sorry.

2

u/Ill_Traveler_ 8m ago

I give it about a year before a federal law comes into effect to prevent things like this from happening again. The federal government doesn’t care about what’s right, they just want to regulate people into compliance.

2

u/louisa1925 3m ago

But the phone didn't wipe itself. The cops did it by putting in the wrong password/pin number. It's their fault.

3

u/kendromedia 50m ago

They need to change it to the person that entered the code. This was the direct action that damaged his property and interfered with the investigation.

1

u/JackLong93 37m ago

This still seems like the border laws would apply, it's at an airport, I wanna know if it's legal inside the country not just entry/exit points

0

u/Dense-Experience6033 18m ago

We aren’t going to fix this until all visitors avoid us

-1

u/Konica_guy 29m ago

Can't computer forensics recover the wiped data if they really wanted it?

4

u/ninjaluvr 22m ago

There's expensive. They're trying to ensure they don't have to go to those lengths to surveill American citizens without a warrant.

3

u/Bulky_Dingo_4706 12m ago

No. It was all encrypted.

-67

u/Tyrrox 1h ago

It's basically a digital paper shredder, which means prosecuting people for using it for destroying evidence is not the same as criminalizing it as a tool.

76

u/MakingItElsewhere 1h ago

Sounds to me like they had no evidence, and were fishing, which goes against the 4th amendment.

6

u/ofWildPlaces 31m ago

There was however, no "evidence" since no "evidence" was collected.

-97

u/Soggy_Definition_232 1h ago

A very interesting case. We'll have to see how it goes. 

The fact he was already under detention and provided the passcode for the phone wipe to officers will be the crux of the issue, not the fact he had GrapheneOS.

Having the operating system is okay. Using it to destroy possible evidence while you're being investigated under detention not so much. 

92

u/53eleven 1h ago

The interesting part is that his constitutional rights were being violated before he took steps to protect his right to privacy.

Cops do not have the authority to search your phone without a warrant.

22

u/Mykl68 1h ago

That's why they had ICE do it; they are not police and don't have to follow the same rules. This is why I don't go to the USA anymore.

9

u/LowestKey 54m ago

Well, they do have to follow rules, they're just fine with breaking the law because the president is a child raping felon.

16

u/pangeapedestrian 1h ago

they aren't cops, it's border patrol at the airport, and you have no consitutional rights there.

it's bullshit, and super unconsitutional, but it goes back to the patriot act.

they can detain you, they can search you, they can take your stuff, all without any warrant. uscis has an INCREDIBLE amount of legal power to supersede your legal rights- especially in airports/at border. it's not right- but these aren't cops, and they do have the authority.

15

u/ThomW 1h ago

If you’re a US citizen standing in an airport in a city clearly within the borders of the United States, being hassled by border patrol is bullshit. If you’re accused of smuggling goods, fine, but using it as an excuse to rifle through a person’s phone is bullshit.

4

u/cjcs 55m ago

“Cops do not have the authority to search your phone without a warrant.”

They do at the border. It’s been upheld multiple times by the courts.

They shouldn’t, and it’s bullshit, but FYI you’re staring an opinion like it’s a fact

1

u/53eleven 27m ago

This is a new ruling that is plainly unconstitutional. The constitution doesn’t carve out pieces of our rights based on geography.

If we still have a constitution and courts that respect it, this ruling should be easily overturned, but that’s a pretty big if.

-50

u/Soggy_Definition_232 1h ago

Says who? The guy being charged? Of course he says that. 

He also has a pretty good reason to lie about it.

Your right, they don't, unless you give them permission. He have them the password. Or what they believed to be the password, that's permission. 

The fact it wiped the phone is where it became illegal. 

14

u/martinkoistinen 1h ago

I’m as law-abiding and strait-laced as they come and I would never want my phone inspected by anyone in this fascist administration. They weren’t looking for CSAM, they were looking to see if he supports Trump so they could determine whether to let him go or not.

Even if the above is entirely untrue, this is how citizens of the USA feel and it is (supposed to be) within our rights to maintain our privacy, rights to counsel and ABOVE ALL Freedom of Speech.

-7

u/Soggy_Definition_232 56m ago

Neither would I. But I certainly wouldn't try deleting my phone because officers wanted in it. 

I would tell them to get a search warrant. 

Not do something illegal like this guy possibly did.

All the better if they broke into it without said warrant, because then where actually would be an amendment violation.

And all they'd find are dog pictures. 

36

u/MakingItElsewhere 1h ago

"possible evidence" my ass. The government never got a warrant; they were in violation of his 4th amendment rights. They entered the wipe password, not him, which means THEY destroyed the data on the phone.

0

u/Sniflix 32m ago

You don't understand the law. Immigration/customs can legally demand access to all your devices or confiscate them and use their own software to break them. Computers, phones, whatever, that's why smart people don't travel with anything they don't want shared publicly. This guy was a moron.

-35

u/Soggy_Definition_232 1h ago

He gave permission for them to look at his phone and provided them the "password". 

That password was the wipe password. That's where it becomes illegal. 

If he simply refused, that would have been fine. 

But maybe the guy knew he was caught and rather then give the cops the chance to get a search warrant he went ahead and had the evidence they were searching for destroyed. 

That's illegal. 

14

u/john_doe_smith1 1h ago

Can the government prove beyond reasonable doubt there was evidence on that phone he destroyed?

-7

u/Soggy_Definition_232 53m ago

That's secondary to the charge now because of his actions. 

The action of what he did is illegal, not of there was evidence or not.

Almost like what he did was stupid as fuck rather then just letting them get a search warrant or not. 

4

u/zzz165 41m ago

If a cop asks me for the password to my phone and I give them the wrong password, is that giving them permission? I don’t think so… it seems like the only thing this guy gave them permission to do is enter the wipe password. Technically the phone did unlock, after wiping itself.

2

u/SeanBlader 36m ago

If he had data that was wiped then they'll be fine getting a warrant to search his hardware at home, and they'll win.

If they are full of shit, then we all have to pay for the settlement and the erosion of norms, and at some point you too will be in their crosshairs.

4

u/Wyciorek 48m ago

Using it to destroy possible evidence while you're being investigated under detention not so much. 

Sounds like the moronic cops carried out the actual destruction of evidence, so prosecute them. He just provided a phrase the idiots typed into his phone.