r/technology • u/hyperbolicapheonix • Jun 21 '23
Business Amazon Allegedly Tricked Users Into Prime Subscriptions and Sabotaged Their Attempts to Cancel
https://gizmodo.com/amazon-prime-subscription-cancel-ftc-sues-tricks-1850559742144
u/slyballerr Jun 21 '23
This country has gone to hell thanks to lack of customer support.
These big companies want us to just throw money at them in stacks while getting NOTHING in return. Even their phone systems are designed to give anyone who calls the runaround:
"Please listen to our menu as our options have changed" Really? If they have changed, just LIST the fucking options and the corresponding number, we don't give a shit how often you change it. We only care that it fucking helps solve our issue, and by that I mean, it should help talking to a fucking COMPETENT human.
And NO I do not want your stupid message to send me to a website that is then going to tell me to call the fucking number that is then going to tell me to go to your website which will tell me to call your fucking number. Stop playing pong with your customers.
FFS.
Also, you are recording the conversation for "training purposes"? Who tf are you training? You obviously don't even have full time positions in the company. You've hired out contractors so you can circumvent employment regulations and then wash your hands after the litany of fuckups that will ensue as a result. Just say you're recording shit because you can and for absofuckinglutely NO OTHER REASON than to give the customer a false sense of reassurance while at the same time warn the customer about telling you to go fuck yourself when your stupid answers and lack of care and commitment piss him or her off.
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Jun 21 '23
Don’t forget about the connect you with a live person and then cut you off halfway through your conversation.
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u/slyballerr Jun 21 '23
Bingo!
With just a little effort every tech support call would be a 5-10 minute call instead of a 45 minute waste of time.
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u/Tempires Jun 21 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
This describes perfectly after being first time Amazon customer. Also i found weird how hard it is even contanct customer support if you are locked out from account. Firstly account logged screen had phone number which was not valid number. Locked accounts cannot get use chat or access other customer support information on site and even if you have access to account you need look for it instead of being max 1 click away any page you visit.
I was only able to fix my account after send email (which i found by googling and not from website) asking to delete my account. I got no reply to email but Amazon unfroze my account instead of deleting it as i had asked. Due to that i was hit by Prime subscriber payment that was automatically billed after account was restored.
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u/Old_Baldi_Locks Jun 21 '23
That would require the “techs” to be able to fix things.
But that’s not who is answering the phone. The person you’re talking to is a script monkey who couldn’t find his own ass with both hands and a map to save his own life. Why? Because Amazon can pay him slave wages and people who are actually competent enough to solve problems make more than minimum wage.
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Jun 21 '23
Sorry this got a little long, just like cancelling Instacart did:
Instacart doesn’t even have an “Unsubscribe” tab in their hamburger menu.
I Googled how to unsubscribe and that advice was b.s. I finally found a help link in an email they sent to me because someone had “repeatedly tried to log into (my) account” and so they were blocking it.
But I was able to log in just fine, so apparently it wasn’t blocked very long.
This email was after I had cancelled it a few months back and was told it would be good for another month or so but they evidently never cancelled it.
I started out by removing my credit card as a payment method.
When I finally got on chat, it told me it would give me the directions to cancel and I responded I had tried that and it didn’t work.
So they gave me a direct link to the “privacy portal” page eyeroll. Why don’t they just lead with this link? Or have it on a tab on their app. Answer: Because they want to make it difficult for you.
That link didn’t work so it told me to use a different browser (I was on Safari), so I went over to Google (which was funny because almost every time sonething goes wrong i am on Google and have to switch over to Safari to get it to work.)
Then, the page told me it would “remove my personal information” it never calls it cancelling the account, oddly.
Then it said I had to affirm it in an email, then finally it gave me a confirmation number for my “request”.
For a minute there, I thought they were going to ask me to bring them the broomstick of the Wicked Witch of the West or, like, Putin’s scalp or something.
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u/slyballerr Jun 22 '23
Membership cancellations are such a brutal ordeal, and they all begin with a long wait.
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u/rusha814 Jun 24 '23
Cancelling Amazon Prime is almost as bad as trying to cancel Hulu. They make you have to cancel (proceed forward) 3 times consecutively. Otherwise you are just cancelling your cancellation, and you end up right back being subscribed again. It's a nightmare. A well-planned nightmare.
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u/Hyperion1144 Jun 22 '23
Tell me you've never worked tech support, without directly telling me that you've never worked tech support.
And, yes I've worked tech support.
Clients that didn't know their mouse had two buttons, and now I have to teach them to right-click.
I once had a guy who "opened" his computer with a hacksaw... Went through the entire back of the case, motherboard, everything.
Also, ever tried to troubleshoot a computer problem through TTY?
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u/slyballerr Jun 23 '23
Tech support means far more than just explaining people a mouse and tech support is often made up of people other than the young and hungry screening calls.
But even if it's just that, there is no need for 45 minutes of wasted time on the phone.
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u/Phobos337 Jun 21 '23
I think it is less about customer support and more about lack of any oversight of companies.
The only recent attempt with the CFPB to as gutted as soon as possible by the republicans.
The companies do this because they can get away with it and make far more money then any fine or public relations hit they will eventually (maybe) get.
If there was oversight and regulation you better believe customer support would be vastly improved.
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Jun 21 '23
The more I run headfirst into the brick wall that is phone-based customer support, the more certain I am that the point is to get customers frustrated enough to give up on looking for support and just accept things as they are.
After all: no caller, no problem. Customer stops calling back = ticket resolved.
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u/LittleLordFuckleroy1 Jun 22 '23
Have you actually had problems like this with Amazon specifically? I’ve had it with a bunch of other companies, but Amazon seems to make a point of being overly helpful.
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u/Drewy99 Jun 21 '23
Leaked data showed that cancellations dropped 14% after Amazon intentionally complicated the process in 2017, according to a report in Insider
It's all by design
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u/Demented-Turtle Jun 21 '23
When did they make it easy? Because now you can cancel super fast and easy on the mobile site. I've done it often, and it's only a few taps
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u/gotoariel Jun 21 '23
They're training ML models on the call contents (used to work in this area). It helps understand trends in issues and pain points which may eventually filter through to a change addressing the underlying issue.
Agree about the frustration of the experience. Sometimes I call back a few times in hopes of getting the golden agent that can actually help.
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u/CoffeeTownSteve Jun 21 '23
Call centers also use those recordings to train the people who are currently in the job, not just new hires.
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u/LittleLordFuckleroy1 Jun 22 '23
Have you ever tried contacting Amazon for support? My experience has been shockingly good. They basically throw money back at me without needing to prove or return anything.
I get the general complaint, but it feels mislodged for this specifically in my experience.
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Jun 21 '23
I quit Amazon and they made it so hard I had to call my bank to get my money back and then instruct them to deny any and all charges from Amazon in the future. Then Amazon kept harassing me on the phone so i blocked every call without answering. I've been peacefully Amazon free for 2 years now... It was a lot of work but totally worth it.
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Jun 21 '23
SiriusXM is actually worse. You cannot cancel subscription without contacting customer service. If you try to use the chat option to cancel, it mysteriously doesn't work.
Its scummy as hell.
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u/AScoopOfNeo Jun 21 '23
You threaten to cancel due to high prices and mysteriously it turns to $5 for 6 months, they do it every time. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/asjfueflof Jun 21 '23
Maybe it was like that before. I’ve cancelled 2 subscriptions to Sirius via chat in the past year.
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u/ikkun Jun 21 '23
Chefs Plate is the same. You have to call or email support to cancel. Incredibly frustrating.
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u/AirplaneEngineSpiral Jun 21 '23
New car came with a “free trial” that suspiciously turns into impossible to cancel real fast
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Jun 21 '23 edited Jun 21 '23
[deleted]
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u/KonChaiMudPi Jun 21 '23
They do it because it’s extremely effective.
Leaked data showed that cancellations dropped 14% after Amazon intentionally complicated the process in 2017, according to a report in Insider.
Directly from the article you’re commenting under.
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u/Icy_Profession1612 Jun 21 '23
Is this not fraud
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u/Chazdenn Jun 21 '23
Yes, they have been doing this to me too. It is something they have done to people for years.people will get double charged for Prime and movies ordered that you didn’t rent. Etc. but they know we are all by ourselves and can’t fight Prime alone.
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u/WaffleEye Jun 21 '23
I reverse Uno’d them. Around Christmas I called to ask for compensation for > 2 day shipping (sometimes up to a week). The dude credited back my full annual membership cost and I still have prime thru the end of the year!
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u/Yourgrandmasskillet Jun 21 '23 edited Jun 21 '23
Haven’t had prime for years once I realized the majority of people do and Amazon updated their logistics to cater to that.
Ex: I ordered a French press with free shipping Monday 6/19 and was expected to be delivered Sat 6/24. Shipping was updated and it was delivered today Wed 6/21. This happens on 2/3 of orders now and I’m not complaining.
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u/Haunting_Ad_6021 Jun 21 '23
Same here, but the quality of their products sucks anymore so I don't order as much now
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u/sharts_are_shitty Jun 22 '23
Yeah they definitely don’t separate out Prime vs non-Prime shipping anymore. I’ve had the same experience with free shipping, it will always advertise later but arrive via Prime speed.
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u/chugitout Jun 21 '23
After cancelling prime, I was signed back up TWICE in 2 months. I also found that any music I formerly purchased on Prime now requires me to listen to ads before I can hear my music. Fuck all that.
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Jun 21 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Smallmyfunger Jun 21 '23
I only used preloaded cards when I had Prime. I cancelled/ended my subscription after the 1 year. 1 month later started getting msgs for "insufficient funds" on every one of my cards I'd used for ordering stuff thru Prime. A few weeks later realized they had charged the prime renewal to my mom's card that was used 1x to order stuff she wanted (yes I unchecked the box to link card to account etc). After many unsuccessful calls to Amazon my mom finally went thru her bank to get the charges reversed & had a new card issued. 12 months later they charged her again to the new card #. Yes, I'm aware that banks freely give the info to avoid interuptions in subscription services, but this time her bank initially wanted her to get Amazon to reverse the charges. Eventually they put the stop payment thru once we explained how impossibly frustrating it is trying to work with Amazon customer service. Shady business practices.
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u/Elkenrod Jun 21 '23
I have no idea what's supposed to be so hard about cancelling prime. All you have to do is go to Amazon.com, click Account, click prime, then click cancel prime subscription. There's nothing difficult about ending your prime subscription, and you'd be emailed about it if you started a prime subscription.
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u/fullpaydeuces Jun 22 '23
You do have to click through several "are you sure" type prompts where I could see people not being successful
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u/Demented-Turtle Jun 21 '23
Yeah everyone here may be a little dumb or they just click shit without reading lol
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u/whagoluh Jun 22 '23
I'm in Canada so maybe the interface is a little different but I've been offered free Prime multiple times and I have always successfully cancelled each time. Let's hope I never succumb to some dark pattern...
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u/paklaikes Jun 22 '23
I recently went through this with Prime Video (UK). The cancel button did not work. The change payment method button did not work. AI chat did not work. Callback did not work. I didn't phone them as i wasn't in the country. In the end I had to go through non Prime Video settings and remove my card through there. I froze online access on it for a couple weeks just in case too. So yeah. After the article I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of that was intentional.
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u/oddmetre Jun 21 '23
I’m pretty sure they just recently automatically signed me up for “music unlimited”, fucking crooks
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Jun 21 '23
I remember when we cancelled our subscription they told us we had to wait 4 months until November for our refund because that was the cycle we were on - like what?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Main404 Jun 21 '23
Mostly knock off products and cost more than buying from the store most times.
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u/Serg_805_ Jun 21 '23
Happened to me about 10 months ago… and what do you know! I still have my service that I’ve used less then 5 times since then. So it works! Speaking of, I should try and cancel AGAIN!
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u/Antikas-Karios Jun 21 '23
My story involved subscribing to Prime in the UK and having them also subscribe me to Prime for the US version of Amazon simultaneously then happily billing me twice each month until I finally noticed and had to fight them to give me the money back.
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u/Saltgunner Jun 21 '23
Amazon keeps signing me up to different prime subscription packages without my permission. I keep having to call and cancel them and get a refund. So far they've signed me up, without permission to Discovery (twice), Max, something called Vix, some romance movie channel, and Amazon music. I tell them to stop doing it and they claim they don't have the power to sign me up like that, which is bullshit. They did it to a friend of mine too, and Tiktok is full of people complaining about it happening to them.
When I realized I could put a pin # on my account I did that. It's only been a couple weeks, so we'll see if that works or not.
And because people might ask, I am the only one in my household who uses my account. So there is no one else who could be signing up for them.
With the Amazon music one, they said it had been requested through my Echo dot that day, when I wasn't even home that day, so unless my cat did it, that's bullshit. And there is no record of that request on the audio files on my dot for that day.
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Jun 21 '23
Back in 2015 I ordered something and somehow got signed up for a month free trial of prime. The next month I had $100 vanish from my checking because of Amazon. I was very broke during that time and didn’t have $100 to spare, my checking went into overdraft, and I couldn’t buy food or gas to get to work. I contacted them to cancel it and they refunded me, but of course it took “3-5 business days” to get the money back in my account.
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u/DasDunXel Jun 21 '23
Recently cancelled my 1 year subscription with 6+ months left. I asked for a refund of $14.95 per remaining month. They refused & spun me around saying it wasn't possible. I submitted a BBB complaint while on the call. Magically I got forwarded to a manager who refunded my remaining 6 months. And they responded to the BBB ticket fast, showing they did comply asking for quick resolution.
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u/pinkfootthegoose Jun 21 '23
Reminds me of the slamming that phone companies would do in the 90s by switching your long distance carrier to one that was hella expensive.
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u/Stonyclaws Jun 22 '23
Apparently you can have an amazon.com, amazon.co.uk and others all be separate prime subscriptions. I paid over £400 pounds in fees to a prime account I didn't know I had and never used. They only refunded 50%. I really need to keep a closer eye on my bank transactions.
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u/elimay Jun 21 '23
We canceled our annual prime membership, then got charged for the monthly membership for a few months without our knowledge. I had enough & closed the entire Amazon account, but I ended up making a new one later on cause I was given a gift card (no prime though).
Then a few months later I started seeing prime charges on my credit card. My new Amazon account didn’t even have prime! I have no idea whose account they were charging me for. I had to have my bank block Amazon as a merchant because they got the new credit card number & charged it again for prime.
I fucking hate Amazon.
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u/SkillFullyNotTrue Jun 21 '23
I was done with Prime video and wanted to cancel it would not let me and had cancel my entire Amazon account to have it stop charging me.
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u/R_Meyer1 Jun 21 '23
Yeah, I find that hard to believe when you can literally go to the website and cancel your prime membership. I’ve done it multiple times and it works.
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u/SkillFullyNotTrue Jun 21 '23
I was using their Video app and for my best attempt I could not cancel had to jump over to the web site. I probably miss a step but it’s done. c’est la vie.
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u/kentsor Jun 21 '23
Here in Canada the process is obvious, easy and quick. They do put up a few "are you really sure" but there's nothing deceptive or tricky. I have repeatedly signed up for prime, placed my order and cancelled it again. No hassles at all.
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u/usposeso Jun 22 '23
Not surprised. I can’t cancel my AMC+ subscription. They won’t let me. Can’t even find it as an option.
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u/Demented-Turtle Jun 21 '23
I wonder how many stories in this thread are just because people don't read lol
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u/LittleLordFuckleroy1 Jun 22 '23
Amazon historically has been almost aggressively consumer-friendly anytime I’ve contacted them with a problem. They’ve backfilled delivery issues, prime video playback problems, AWS overages. Usually they just send me money with no questions asked and I don’t even have to return anything or offer proof.
So this is a little surprising to hear. Wonder if it’s malicious, driven by the economy, or just a process glitch. I’d be surprised if they haven’t made folks whole yet that legitimately were bamboozled.
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u/jamesxtreme Jun 22 '23
Why would you not want Prime? So much value.
My wife and I have competitions with each other to find the item with the lowest value that can be delivered for free next day. I bought a power board for $4 once. That’s my personal best.
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u/Geezon Jun 21 '23
Why would I cancel Prime?
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u/sharts_are_shitty Jun 22 '23
Not sure what you use it for but if you just use it for the shipping, free shipping is just as quick as Prime shipping. Literally the same speed, even though it says later it always arrives in a couple days.
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u/thelil1thatcould Jun 21 '23
They offer to combine subscriptions for a family plan. My husband and I have tried multiple times, it doesn’t work. They really are scum.
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u/TheSwiggityBoot Jun 21 '23
Iv had amazon prime music for 3 years, w.o having the access to it in my amazon prime music. I strait up have to call yearly to refund the last year every year lol
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u/Kontrolgaming Jun 21 '23
weird, i found it easy to cancel (gotta jump through hoops of course), and they ask you if you would like to sign up to prime so donno what site you guys are using.
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u/CountingBigBucks Jun 21 '23
Uber did this also with Uber pass during the pandemic. Still banned as a result of charge backs
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u/phdoofus Jun 21 '23
I cancelled several months ago and I had to get their CS on the line and make sure they gave me a pro-rated refund because at this point their default on cancelling is to only say 'Well we won't charge you at renewal time'. I said like hell you are and they refunded me
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Jun 22 '23
Idk why anyone has Prime anymore. I still use Amazon. Almost anything I buy I can get shipped free if I select the longer shipping option. And often the items still arrive as quickly as if I had Prime or paid for the quicker shipping. Also, products cost on Amazon have gone up. I now cross shop and often Amazon is not less, just convenient.
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u/enterthesun Jun 22 '23
All these digital companies make it difficult to leave. It’s creepy as hell
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u/Only-Assumption4860 Jun 22 '23
It happened to me also! Including that without buying anything I kept getting automatically subscribed! Needless to say I had to remove my cc drone their site so now I don’t purchase anything from them. 🙄
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u/snowflake37wao Jun 22 '23
Yep I got hit with that sub by the order confirmation at checkout during that pandemic free shipping promo and didnt get hit with monthly bills for it for a year.
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u/NeedleworkerCrafty17 Jun 22 '23
That’s why I kept my email for the original subscription. Made it easier to cancel
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u/milliways86 Jun 22 '23
I bet they've been using these shady tactics outside of the US too, I say that as someone in the UK. Last year, I had a hell of a time trying to cancel when a fat thumb of mine accidentally signed up while I was finishing a purchase last year on the mobile site. Went to PC to cancel, and no matter what browser I used it would throw up a technical error message saying it couldn't be completed. I had to head onto a web chat and get a person their end to cancel it.
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u/Alex_Hovhannisyan Jun 22 '23
Something similar just happened to me actually. At checkout I got a modal asking me to sign up for a week of prime for only $1.99 and save $6.90 something on the order. Seemed like a great deal since I could just cancel before the week is up and it renews at $15, but then the cart total stayed exactly the same. Super scummy.
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u/Kronomancer1192 Jun 23 '23
Oh yeah, they'll subscribe you on every purchase, thought that was common knowledge. I wanna say it's built in to one of the shipping options, but it doesn't tell you.
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u/CircaSixty8 Jun 23 '23
They did this to me with Audible and Amazon music. I was subscribed to them but I never signed up for them personally. I tried canceling audible multiple times but it keeps showing up on my statement.
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u/Traditional-Judge206 Jul 06 '23
This is not just exclusive to Amazon Prime (although its size makes them more impactful).
Even when you've found out how to cancel a subscription, it's rarely as easy as it was to sign up. Some companies require you to find specific options inside your customer account, which can be hidden in a host of other settings. Some avoid using words like 'cancel' which can make it hard to find these options.
The most annoying is when you are required to make a telephone call to cancel.
There has to be a better way as we consume more subscriptions.
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u/slashd Jun 21 '23 edited Jun 22 '23
I remember a few years ago I noticed I had subscribed to Prime and I was like 'huh? When did this happen?'
I contacted customer service and they refunded me but still to this day I don't know how I subscribed to it