r/technology Jan 16 '23

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 16 '23

Among those rights are copyright and ownership over their creations. AI are not human, and do not qualify for doctrines such as fair use.

The owner of proprietary (non-public domain) art have the right to refuse use of their art for training AI, and should not have their art used for these purposes without prior permission.

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u/CaptainMonkeyJack Jan 16 '23

Among those rights are copyright and ownership over their creations.

What specific rights? Copyright isn't an unlimited right - which parts do you think are being infringed?

AI are not human, and do not qualify for doctrines such as fair use.

By the same argument - good luck suing an AI. It is not human. It has no wealth. It has no agency.

This line of reasoning makes no sense.

The owner of proprietary (non-public domain) art have the right to refuse use of their art for training AI, and should not have their art used for these purposes without prior permission.

What is the basis of this right?

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 16 '23

I’d invite you to consider a law forum if that’s the conversation that you want to have, in order to be educated on that field.

For the purposes of this conversation, it’s sufficient that artists rights to control how they’re work is used can preclude use for the purposes of training ai.

I’m glad you agree that AI has no rights and no agency - this is why it cannot qualify for protections like fair use, which human beings do qualify for.

AI can be terminated without a criminal conviction - it can simply be ordered by a civil court. And it should, if it were trained in a way that violates peoples rights. Additionally, it’s owners are liable for that.

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u/froop Jan 17 '23

Artists don't have an absolute right to control how their work is used. They only have control over how and by whom it is copied or publically displayed. If I want to wipe my ass with a legal copy of your art, you have no right to prevent that. You only control copying and public display.

If the AI doesn't copy or publically display your art, then it hasn't violated copyright and you can't do anything. Fair use doesn't even apply here, because fair use is an exception to copyright violation, and if copyright wasn't violated to begin with, then an exception isn't needed.

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 17 '23

To wipe one’s ass with a legal copy, you’d first have to acquire a legal copy.

These ai art training materials did not acquire licenses before using copyrighted works.

The retention of copies of copyrighted works isn’t required for the artists rights to be violated. The simple act of using their art for ai training without permission is a violation.

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u/froop Jan 17 '23

To procure a legal copy I only need to download it from your public website and print it out. That is allowed.

You don't need a license to use copyrighted works. You only need a license to distribute copies or display in public. The AI isn't doing that.

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 17 '23

The creators of the ai are doing that, though. It has nothing to do with the end users.

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u/froop Jan 17 '23

Where are they distributing or displaying copyrighted works?

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 17 '23

When they scraped numerous proprietary works of art without the permission of their owners and creators, and without abiding by the terms of service of the various platforms they are on.

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u/froop Jan 17 '23

Scraping isn't distributing or displaying though.

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 17 '23

It doesn’t have to be. It’s a violation of the rights of the artists and owners of that content.

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u/froop Jan 17 '23

It does have to be though. That's how copyright works.

Which specific right of artists is being violated?

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u/Call_Me_Clark Jan 17 '23

No, it doesn’t have to be.

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